Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by From Despair To Where? » 29 Aug 2019 21:24

Badly phrased on my part. The redevelopment costs wouldn't but the attendant drop in matchday revenue from having part of the ground closed for a period of time certainly would.

Again, i go back to my main point, the days of a Dave Whelan bankrolling a club from League 2 to the Championship and beyond are gone because FFP would prevent him from doing it without organic growth in the club happening in tandem.

Average annual turnover in the Championship is about £25m and most clubs have a wage to turnover ratio over 100%

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 29 Aug 2019 21:52

From Despair To Where? it wasn't meant s a dig at Forest Green Rovers, just an example of a small club with an ambitious owner but he would not be able to bankroll the club to the same extent in the Championship because of FFP. It would require a massive increase in revenue. In a 5000 seat stadium, gate receipts would yeald less than £3m a season, matchday revenue less than £2m, sponsorship and TV revenue maybe £1.5m.

A squad of 20 players on an average of £6,000p/w would swallow that up.


Thats fair enough

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 29 Aug 2019 21:54

From Despair To Where?
The Enfield Royal71
Barney
No YOU won't, I walked into YOUR ground a few weeks ago. Had a look around before YOUR friendly with Bristol City. Very very tiny. No room for expansion.
Can't accomodate large away support. Very little 'water holes' nearby. All in all, limited revenue opportunities.

Small, neat, compact. But would be destroyed in the Championship.

I agree 100% with From Despair to Where.


Why the YOU?

What do you know about FGR? Because of a ground it will destroy us? The chairman is ballsy and rich and ambitious and will invest heavily and build a new ground.


But you need to increase the fanbase to justify building a 15,000 seat stadium otherwise it's a white elephant with significantly increased running costs. See Darlington as an example of how it can go dreadfully wrong.

And if you're in the Championship. he can't invest heavily without the increase in revenue because of FFP. That's the whole point. FFP does not apply to league 1 and League 2 so he can throw as much money as needed at the club but there's more accountability in the Championship.

Look at Burton as an example. Survival in the Championship in the short term is achievable, but establishing yourself needs big money, the sort of sums that FFP prevents you from spending. Even much bigger clubs like Rotherham with bigger support and bigger catchment areas in traditional footballing heartlands struggle to do it.


Thats fair enough

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 29 Aug 2019 21:56

It's a shame though but The owner Dale is no mug. Hes a very good businessman and he wouldnt do anything to put the team at risk.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Nameless » 29 Aug 2019 22:01

Hound Not heard a lot with REP, but the fact that the previous Thai owners own some of the surrounding land worries me more than the current owners owning the stadium tbh

Not that there is that much they can do with it I suppose


I believe it’s part owned by the Dai’s, IIRC there was an REP. Development company set up which RFC had a 25% share in.
The land doesn’t give anyone a ransom over the club (such as happened at Pompey) a season there is still access via roads still owned by RFC .
It would be inconvenient if the Thai’s tried to kick us off that area of land but not sure that is likely. I would reckon before long the Dai’s will buy back the land, either killing development off or to do their own scheme which I suspect might be much more aimed at enhancing the stadium.


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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Hound » 29 Aug 2019 22:08

Yes that’s always been my assumption that they’d buy the land back at some stage - surprised it hasn’t already happened

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Elm Park Kid » 30 Aug 2019 01:21

The situation is like if you had your own plumbing company and (for some reason) decided to buy the van that the 'company' owns. Technically speaking, your company has exchanged an asset for cash and this impacts tax and whatever. But in the real-world, you still have the same van that you can use whenever you want.

If you sold the company (without the van) to someone else then it becomes their problem. But the fact that the van isn't part of the company isn't really the issue - rather, it would be selling to people that can't also afford the van as well.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Nameless » 30 Aug 2019 07:30

Elm Park Kid The situation is like if you had your own plumbing company and (for some reason) decided to buy the van that the 'company' owns. Technically speaking, your company has exchanged an asset for cash and this impacts tax and whatever. But in the real-world, you still have the same van that you can use whenever you want.

If you sold the company (without the van) to someone else then it becomes their problem. But the fact that the van isn't part of the company isn't really the issue - rather, it would be selling to people that can't also afford the van as well.


The big risk is you sell your van to someone and they say you can no longer drive it because someone else wants it to run a delivery company.
The Dai’s won’t do that (we hope....). But of course as they own the club they could have done it anyway so in reality we’re in no worse position than we would have been anyway and we have a cash injection. More of a worry would be what happens in 2-3 years if we are gain losing large sums of money and the accounting solutions have been exhausted. The FFP is about sustainable spending (what if your rich owner gets bored/ goes bust/gets locked up/dies) and just throwing personal cash into a club is not sustainable. We need to increase the revenue the club generates and control costs, a successful club helps the former but increases the latter.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by under the tin » 30 Aug 2019 07:52

Modern pro football isn't sustainable.

"How do you become a millionaire football club owner?"

"start off as a billionaire" Copyright Alan Sugar


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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by The Enfield Royal71 » 30 Aug 2019 08:32

Its why my beloved FGR will probably never get higher then L1 as DTW said. I doubt we will see any new teams up in the championship anytime soon.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Dick Habbin's hairdo » 30 Aug 2019 09:40

Not sure how and why this may be relevant, but don't the Thais still own the hotel?

There's a little sign on the wall as one comes out of the bogs at the bar in the hotel which says something like: "In deference to our Thai owners, we aim to offer authentic Thai cuisine in the restaurant ..." or some such nonsense.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Stranded » 30 Aug 2019 09:43

The Enfield Royal71 Its why my beloved FGR will probably never get higher then L1 as DTW said. I doubt we will see any new teams up in the championship anytime soon.


We will see new teams up there - Fleetwood look like making it in the next year or two. As mentioned, it is not the getting there that is the problem but staying there - Burton are the model to follow but staying up involves finding hidden gems from lower divisions who will accept lower wages for the chance to put themselves in the shop window who can do enough and maybe give the club a chance to catch up off the pitch.

The risk of course in getting there, esp. for a team that has come from non-league is that getting there may just be an overstretch - look at what has happened to Yeovil since their one season in the Championship.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Whore Jackie » 30 Aug 2019 12:48

Nameless
Hound Not heard a lot with REP, but the fact that the previous Thai owners own some of the surrounding land worries me more than the current owners owning the stadium tbh

Not that there is that much they can do with it I suppose


I believe it’s part owned by the Dai’s, IIRC there was an REP. Development company set up which RFC had a 25% share in.
The land doesn’t give anyone a ransom over the club (such as happened at Pompey) a season there is still access via roads still owned by RFC .
It would be inconvenient if the Thai’s tried to kick us off that area of land but not sure that is likely. I would reckon before long the Dai’s will buy back the land, either killing development off or to do their own scheme which I suspect might be much more aimed at enhancing the stadium.


Pretty sure the Thais still own the Mad Stad hotel too.


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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Nameless » 30 Aug 2019 14:54

Stranded
The Enfield Royal71 Its why my beloved FGR will probably never get higher then L1 as DTW said. I doubt we will see any new teams up in the championship anytime soon.


We will see new teams up there - Fleetwood look like making it in the next year or two. As mentioned, it is not the getting there that is the problem but staying there - Burton are the model to follow but staying up involves finding hidden gems from lower divisions who will accept lower wages for the chance to put themselves in the shop window who can do enough and maybe give the club a chance to catch up off the pitch.

The risk of course in getting there, esp. for a team that has come from non-league is that getting there may just be an overstretch - look at what has happened to Yeovil since their one season in the Championship.


Salford will get there.
Plenty of money there but will be interesting how they manage FFP as they grow as there’s must be a limit to the crowds they will get.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by STAR Liaison » 30 Aug 2019 15:47

Dick Habbin's hairdo Not sure how and why this may be relevant, but don't the Thais still own the hotel?

There's a little sign on the wall as one comes out of the bogs at the bar in the hotel which says something like: "In deference to our Thai owners, we aim to offer authentic Thai cuisine in the restaurant ..." or some such nonsense.


Last heard that it was Lady Sasima's son who owned it now. Can't recall source or ever seeing it in writing.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Royals-For-Life » 31 Aug 2019 13:35

under the tin Modern pro football isn't sustainable.

"How do you become a millionaire football club owner?"

"start off as a billionaire" Copyright Alan Sugar
wrong

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Sep 2019 17:12

Royals-For-Life
under the tin Modern pro football isn't sustainable.

"How do you become a millionaire football club owner?"

"start off as a billionaire" Copyright Alan Sugar
wrong

Wasn't it "How do you make a small fortune out of football?"

"Start with a big one".

And possibly our own SJM.... though probably not the first with the line.

Or is that equally apocryphal?

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Green » 02 Sep 2019 17:47

Royals-For-Life
under the tin Modern pro football isn't sustainable.

"How do you become a millionaire football club owner?"

"start off as a billionaire" Copyright Alan Sugar
wrong

Welcome to the forums, RFL. Judging by your contributions thus far I think you'll fit in just fine.

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by donh99 » 05 Sep 2019 07:58

Rather worryingly we are mentioned in the same article about Derby's ground sale in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... 2086fc05d4

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Re: Have we sold the Mad Stad to the owners/someone else?

by Hendo » 05 Sep 2019 08:36

donh99 Rather worryingly we are mentioned in the same article about Derby's ground sale in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... 2086fc05d4


However, less worryingly, our ground was sold for £25m whereas theirs were sold for around £80m. There is no way that Pride Park is worth £55m more than The Madjeski.

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