The Next Step Up

[andrew1957]

Worse still, a 38,000 seater stadium with barely 20,000 in it - and that is provided we don't get relegated. My source in the ticket office tells me that we are struggling to break the 21,000 mark for Everton on Saturday . RFC needs as 38,000 capacity about as much as I need a two-car garage.


Unless Everton are bringing nobody this is very unlikely. We have 18,000 season ticket holders and Everton's allocation (which I would expect them to sell) will be in the region of 3000. That would mean that no Reading fans have bought tickets in South stand. There may be a few hundred to sell but not more than that.

I have been a member ever since the current system was launched and have plenty of royalty points so although not a season ticket holder I attend virtually all matches unless I am away on business/holiday. Last season several friends wanted to attend matches for the first time but by the time matches went on to general sale only odd seats were available so I could not get them tickets next to me. There are literally thousands of potential new supporters out there who would probably begin to attend regularly if someone takes them for the first time (just as I first went along to Elm Park with a friend many years ago. If we do not expand the stadium these people will never attend their first game.

Do not underestimate the current interest now that we are in the premiership.

[Hahnemann's Hairdresser]

If a game against a top 2 side goes to general sale then there is proof that interest isn't all that high. I for one would like to see that the supposed interest is there for a sustained period rather than expanding so soon.

If in 3 seasons time there are still no empty seats in the ground and demand is outstripping supply then i'd be happier. However in just our second season in the Premiership we only just sold out a home game against a top 2 team. What happens when we are playing Derby at home? I doubt they'd sell all their tickets and I can't see us selling all ours.

[Deadlock]

Plans are to expand to 30,000 not 38,000. 38,000 is a seperate phase and I can see then doing phase 1 then pausing.

I know these figures have been reported everywhere, but I'd just like to point out that according to page 239 of this report from the Reading Borough Council Planning Applications Committee, dated 23/05/2007:

The proposal intends the phased expansion of the east, north and south stands of the existing Madejski Stadium, in order to increase the capacity of the stadium from circa 24,500 to 36,900 seats. The first phase would be the construction of the East Stand expansion resulting in an additional 6,600 seats, followed in phases to extend the North and South stands, which will have the remaining additional seats split between them.

So the first stage would increase capacity to about 31,000; the second takes it to 36,900.

[1960]

Wait a minute here. If the Madstad was full for every game the gross annual income would be something like £16m (24000x£35x19). Then take away all the costs involved and the net income can't be much more than, what, say £8m.

If Reading can finish mid-table this season they will earn £40m tax and cost free. Basically then, is attendance income that important financially? I know there are questions about full stadiums, but Mr Mad probably reckons that the expansion is not a huge risk - go to the next stage and let the TV money take up the slack.

And, as has been argued above, you just can't get seats together with just 2000 seats spare each week. Dave in the office says "Hey everyone, let's go to Reading next week, I'll get the tickets." Oh no you won't, my son - everyone will need a member card and you'll never get seats together. People have moaned about this all last year. Maybe with a capacity of 31000 or 38000 the Daves of this world will be able to bring 10 people as a one off, like in the old days.

[Einstein agogo]

most people are put off by the loyalty scheme.. i for one have been a loyal ,standing in the freezing sideways rain watching 0-0 draws against bury in the 70's , fan.BUt that counts for nothing , i don't even bother to check.
There's a lot of us who want to turn up on saturday and buy 4 tickets with some mates when we feel like it without planning weeks in advance 30+ will allow that. I reckon there's 15000 fans like that and maybe 2000 who live miles away , like myself , who can only do occasional

[Stranded]

If a game against a top 2 side goes to general sale then there is proof that interest isn't all that high. I for one would like to see that the supposed interest is there for a sustained period rather than expanding so soon.

If in 3 seasons time there are still no empty seats in the ground and demand is outstripping supply then i'd be happier. However in just our second season in the Premiership we only just sold out a home game against a top 2 team. What happens when we are playing Derby at home? I doubt they'd sell all their tickets and I can't see us selling all ours.

As I said on the other thread and will comment here not to drag this down the route. The fact that Chelsea went to general sale does not show a drop in demand, all it shows if anything is a change of demand for one particular game, for a number of factors that may have nothing to do with football.

We don't know how many tickets got to general sale and the fact they did meant that new/returning fans got tickets that previously they may have been unable to. You could argue that this shows a need for extra seats so that more can go to general sale and attract these floaters rather than the "closed shop" of loyalty points.

I'll also point out that depsite the perceived lack of demand the game on Tuesday still had a bigger crowd than both the Chelsea game last year and our opening fixture in the Premier League.

21,000 does seem a low figure for Saturday but if and only if that becomes the norm rather than an anomaly (possibly based on it being August still, holidays etc - remember we traditionally have always seen our lowest gates in August) would I back not progressing to the 31,000 capacity of stage 1.

[Forty]

Bigger crowds cannot justify higher wages. Do the maths - an additional 12,000 seats, £25 per seat x 19 home fixtures = £5.7M = John Terry. I don't but it for one moment that a few thousand extra will mean we can suddenly compete with the big boys, or even the daft ones like West Ham.

[brendywendy]

Bigger crowds cannot justify higher wages. Do the maths - an additional 12,000 seats, £25 per seat x 19 home fixtures = £5.7M = John Terry. I don't but it for one moment that a few thousand extra will mean we can suddenly compete with the big boys, or even the daft ones like West Ham.

thats 5.7 million to add to our current wage bill of what 10-20 million?
plus 40 million TV cash

surely that could pay for a few extra bonuses or summink

[Hoop Blah]

The next step sadly is using getting sold to some multi millionaire whose interest everyone will question.

Fair play to JM, he deserves all he's gonna get, I though am certainly not comfortable with the idea of some foreign investor coming in. Coppell wouldn't stay and I can only see the spirit that has got us here being ripped apart....

Exaclty.

There are many things over the last few of years that the club have done where I've felt they're moving further and further away from the local club mentality towards the money making business they need to be to compete.

I still think we're one of the more 'homely' clubs, especially on the field, and I fear for the future as and when Madejski has to sell up to some billionaire who wants a Premiership play thing.

[79Royal]

The expansion of the stadium is being done now because the club can afford it, put in plain terms.

Everyone knows that we are a few injuries to key players away from being in a relegation scrap. The reality is, we could go down at any time. But whilst we have the ambition and money to expand the stadium now, then we should.

We could be waiting forever otherwise. I can't see that there is any risk involved for the club. More seats = more potential for higher gates. The cost will be offset against the TV money I'd guess.

[brendywendy]

The expansion of the stadium is being done now because the club can afford it, put in plain terms.

Everyone knows that we are a few injuries to key players away from being in a relegation scrap. The reality is, we could go down at any time. But whilst we have the ambition and money to expand the stadium now, then we should.

We could be waiting forever otherwise. I can't see that there is any risk involved for the club. More seats = more potential for higher gates. The cost will be offset against the TV money I'd guess.

we have more than a few injuries to key players now, and at most points last year too

[papereyes]

so you just want us to stand still and stagnate do you?
can you remember (if you are old enough) when we had just the 8,000 die hard fans at elm park?

Don't patronise me, I've been in plenty of crowds at Elm Park of less than 4,000 people as it happens.

Just how many clubs actually average more than 30,000 fans at home games anyway? Not got the stats to hand but at a guess I'd say only Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, West Ham, Man Utd & City, Liverpool, Everton, Villa & Newcastle managed it last season. These are all big city clubs. And the problem - as I see it - from the RFC point of view is that a good many locals would always rather travel to watch those first four clubs named over RFC anyway.

If we can't sell the 22,000 home tickets available for a game against a top six side whilst the Premiership novelty value hasn't quite rubbed off then what makes you think we'll ever need 38,000 seats? The only sign of second season syndrome I can envisage thus far is in the stands.

Here Floyd

I would add the caveat that, for a lot of teams, increasing the stadium size does end up increasing the attendences, but I imagine its a more roundabout process.

I think also that the first four or five games of a season always suffer and always have relatively lower attendences. Simply because there are *more* other things to do.

[Dai Brainbocs]

There must be some rule of thumb for sensible "spare" capacity above what can be sold out relatively easily. I would guess 25 per cent is a pretty good call and moving from 24,000 to 30,000 just about viable, but 38-ish not so.

If the ground had already been expanded, would 38,000 tickets have sold for Chelsea? I'd be very surprised. 38K after relegation would risk being like Leeds and leaving a whole tier empty.

[Behindu]

Bear in mond the club know exactly the breakdown of attendees aover the last few years - how many non ST come every week, how many people come to just the big 4 games, how many have only ever come once etc etc

They must have a pretty powerful set of data giving them strong info on how many potential customers they can convert from casual to more regular visitors.