England - the future....

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Sanguine
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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 09 Sep 2019 17:22

stealthpapes
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First official game ever was in 2014.

The rankings are a rolling calculation.

Of course they'll be ranked badly at the start.


Sure. I'm not sure what point you're making. It's a rolling four-year calculation, so their shit(er) results in 14/15 are now dropping off.


I think its fairly obvious. Of fucking course they were ranked as one of the worst in the world one year into existing as a team. :|

On a related point, we'd had this chat in November 2018. Double :|


Any reason for weird aggressive tone?

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Re: England - the future....

by stealthpapes » 10 Sep 2019 15:55

Right.

Rather good piece on Kosovo in the Guardian today.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... 20-england

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Sep 2019 19:18

I've got loads of time for Southgate, but I'm becoming uninspired by his central midfield 3. Rice is a DM, and Henderson has never been a technical player or passer. The line up doesn't have the ball retention skills to compete at the highest level. Winks should surely be playing, while in the attacking role Maddison has done more than Barkley for the past 18 months.

It will be good enough tonight. It won't be against the best. It may be that we're simply not good enough against teams like Belgium and France anyhow, but I don't feel like a Rice-Henderson-Barkley midfield 3 gives us the best chance available to us. Ejaria has to be a shout too....

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 10 Sep 2019 19:48

Gifted them a goal
Reading style pissing about at the back

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 10 Sep 2019 20:33

Sanguine
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Sanguine I was confidently telling the missus that we're playing the group's weakest side on Tuesday (she was asking why the Kosovo game is being played at St. Mary's) and then I read that they are unbeaten in 15 games. They haven't really played anyone of note - their 2-2 draw with Denmark probably their best result, and they've been playing the likes of Burkina Faso in friendlies, but that's still some effort from a side that was ranked one of the worst in the world just three years ago.

They just beat the Czech Rupublic 2-1............


Yeah, I thought the Czechs were shite now. Either way, a vastly improved Kosovo side, I don't think another 4 or 5 goals is a given tomorrow night.


8) :wink:


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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 10 Sep 2019 20:42

Makes you wonder just how shite the Czech Republic are.

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Re: England - the future....

by Ascotexgunner » 10 Sep 2019 21:02

WestYorksRoyal I've got loads of time for Southgate, but I'm becoming uninspired by his central midfield 3. Rice is a DM, and Henderson has never been a technical player or passer. The line up doesn't have the ball retention skills to compete at the highest level. Winks should surely be playing, while in the attacking role Maddison has done more than Barkley for the past 18 months.

It will be good enough tonight. It won't be against the best. It may be that we're simply not good enough against teams like Belgium and France anyhow, but I don't feel like a Rice-Henderson-Barkley midfield 3 gives us the best chance available to us. Ejaria has to be a shout too....


+1
The midfield is why England will fall short against the better sides. Every competition when it comes to the crunch and their put under pressure the midfield just don't put their foot on the ball and try and dictate the pace....they just crumble and become headless chickens.
Its that technical midfield general they need. Spain and Italy used to have them in abundance.......

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Re: England - the future....

by Zip » 10 Sep 2019 21:21

This is a mad game. Defences seem optional tonight

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Sep 2019 21:33

Ascotexgunner
WestYorksRoyal I've got loads of time for Southgate, but I'm becoming uninspired by his central midfield 3. Rice is a DM, and Henderson has never been a technical player or passer. The line up doesn't have the ball retention skills to compete at the highest level. Winks should surely be playing, while in the attacking role Maddison has done more than Barkley for the past 18 months.

It will be good enough tonight. It won't be against the best. It may be that we're simply not good enough against teams like Belgium and France anyhow, but I don't feel like a Rice-Henderson-Barkley midfield 3 gives us the best chance available to us. Ejaria has to be a shout too....


+1
The midfield is why England will fall short against the better sides. Every competition when it comes to the crunch and their put under pressure the midfield just don't put their foot on the ball and try and dictate the pace....they just crumble and become headless chickens.
Its that technical midfield general they need. Spain and Italy used to have them in abundance.......

I mean, we don't have a Xavi, Pirlo or Modric. But I just feel there are better options than what we choose to pick.

I guess Scholes was in that class and was criminally wasted by England


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Re: England - the future....

by Ascotexgunner » 10 Sep 2019 21:57

WestYorksRoyal
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WestYorksRoyal I've got loads of time for Southgate, but I'm becoming uninspired by his central midfield 3. Rice is a DM, and Henderson has never been a technical player or passer. The line up doesn't have the ball retention skills to compete at the highest level. Winks should surely be playing, while in the attacking role Maddison has done more than Barkley for the past 18 months.

It will be good enough tonight. It won't be against the best. It may be that we're simply not good enough against teams like Belgium and France anyhow, but I don't feel like a Rice-Henderson-Barkley midfield 3 gives us the best chance available to us. Ejaria has to be a shout too....


+1
The midfield is why England will fall short against the better sides. Every competition when it comes to the crunch and their put under pressure the midfield just don't put their foot on the ball and try and dictate the pace....they just crumble and become headless chickens.
Its that technical midfield general they need. Spain and Italy used to have them in abundance.......

I mean, we don't have a Xavi, Pirlo or Modric. But I just feel there are better options than what we choose to pick.

I guess Scholes was in that class and was criminally wasted by England


Scholes was a beast in the middle. Looked horrible but he could own the middle of the park when united were under the cosh.

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Re: England - the future....

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Sep 2019 07:58

England are starting to look like they will develop into the next France in terms of attacking depth.

So many youngsters looking like they will come through but Sterling, Kane and Sancho? That's going to be great to watch in the Euros.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 11 Sep 2019 09:06

WestYorksRoyal I've got loads of time for Southgate, but I'm becoming uninspired by his central midfield 3. Rice is a DM, and Henderson has never been a technical player or passer. The line up doesn't have the ball retention skills to compete at the highest level. Winks should surely be playing, while in the attacking role Maddison has done more than Barkley for the past 18 months.

It will be good enough tonight. It won't be against the best. It may be that we're simply not good enough against teams like Belgium and France anyhow, but I don't feel like a Rice-Henderson-Barkley midfield 3 gives us the best chance available to us. Ejaria has to be a shout too....


I tend to agree that the midfield balance isn't quite there yet but, in Henderson's defence, he's playing the same role for England that he has done for the European Champions and a side that did pretty well in the league last year. For England I'd still rather he was the central player instead of Rice though.

Southgate is looking at the likes of Rice as potential solutions to the midfield issue though so these are the games that form a bit part his education and development.

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Re: England - the future....

by stealthpapes » 11 Sep 2019 09:43

WestYorksRoyal
Ascotexgunner
WestYorksRoyal I've got loads of time for Southgate, but I'm becoming uninspired by his central midfield 3. Rice is a DM, and Henderson has never been a technical player or passer. The line up doesn't have the ball retention skills to compete at the highest level. Winks should surely be playing, while in the attacking role Maddison has done more than Barkley for the past 18 months.

It will be good enough tonight. It won't be against the best. It may be that we're simply not good enough against teams like Belgium and France anyhow, but I don't feel like a Rice-Henderson-Barkley midfield 3 gives us the best chance available to us. Ejaria has to be a shout too....


+1
The midfield is why England will fall short against the better sides. Every competition when it comes to the crunch and their put under pressure the midfield just don't put their foot on the ball and try and dictate the pace....they just crumble and become headless chickens.
Its that technical midfield general they need. Spain and Italy used to have them in abundance.......

I mean, we don't have a Xavi, Pirlo or Modric. But I just feel there are better options than what we choose to pick.

I guess Scholes was in that class and was criminally wasted by England


It's not about the individual players, but about the lack of technical ability and mental strength endemic to the pool of players that any England manager has to pick from.

Until that is fixed, England won't be. But I guess a few posts about shuffling chairs on the deck of the Titanic will keep work away for a few days.


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stealthpapes
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Re: England - the future....

by stealthpapes » 11 Sep 2019 09:52

Old Man Andrews Makes you wonder just how shite the Czech Republic are.


not at their best, that's for sure.

with any smaller country, your strength in depth is lacking, so while you might have one or two talents, most of the squad are going to be journeymen and your subs bench an accident waiting to happen.

Take Kosovo last night, most of their players were playing in or around the top levels of decent European leagues, but the first sub plays for second division german side, the second a recently promoted swedish side, and the third plays for the team adrift at the bottom of the Hungarian league.

Anyway, as for the game, Kosovo attacked and had the players/talent to create chances which is more than most mid-tier European countries. Bluntly, they had little chance of winning but fair play for having a crack. The midfield was typically by-passed, which should be a minor alarm bell for England's future successes.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 11 Sep 2019 10:12

I think the line 'Winks should surely be playing' is enough of a free pass for Southgate on our midfield. I'd agree that it didn't really work last night, and Henderson and Rice were trying to do too similar jobs, I'd also agree with the above that as a key part of the European Champions' midfield, Henderson can be trusted in his role.

We don't have a Xavi or Pirlo, so Southgate will need some time to try players in different midfields until we find a formula that works.

Aside from that, all aboard the Sancho hype-train, right? What a player he is going to be.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 11 Sep 2019 10:16

Sanguine
We don't have a Xavi or Pirlo, so Southgate will need some time to try players in different midfields until we find a formula that works


Defintiely agree with this. Henderson and Rice doesn't really work for me. Rice is someone you'd potentially add to a midfield if you're 2-0 with 70 minutes gone to sure it up a bit, not a starter for me. I would leave Henderson as the Anchorman and have a more creative player just in front of him. Who that is I do not know.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 11 Sep 2019 10:17

Old Man Andrews
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We don't have a Xavi or Pirlo, so Southgate will need some time to try players in different midfields until we find a formula that works


Defintiely agree with this. Henderson and Rice doesn't really work for me. Rice is someone you'd potentially add to a midfield if you're 2-0 with 70 minutes gone to sure it up a bit, not a starter for me. I would leave Henderson as the Anchorman and have a more creative player just in front of him. Who that is I do not know.


It would be terrific if Phil Foden was playing every week for City. 10 minutes of PL football so far this season.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 11 Sep 2019 10:22

Sanguine
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We don't have a Xavi or Pirlo, so Southgate will need some time to try players in different midfields until we find a formula that works


Defintiely agree with this. Henderson and Rice doesn't really work for me. Rice is someone you'd potentially add to a midfield if you're 2-0 with 70 minutes gone to sure it up a bit, not a starter for me. I would leave Henderson as the Anchorman and have a more creative player just in front of him. Who that is I do not know.


It would be terrific if Phil Foden was playing every week for City. 10 minutes of PL football so far this season.

Think he will get a fair bit of action in the Champions League group stages but thats not enough to be starting England games. From what I have seen of him he walks into any non top 4 Premier League side but of course has limited chances at City because he isn't David Silva or KDB.
It was quite noticeable that Pep was blowing a lot of smoke up hisn arse in the pre season saying he was the best young player he has ever worked with etc. All probably done to keep Foden and agent happy. The right thing to do would have been to send him out on loan this season or at least until Christmas. Would have been great to see him as the star man at a team such as Wolves/Southampton, somewhere he could have expressed himself and been one of the first names on the teamsheet.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 11 Sep 2019 10:37

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+1
The midfield is why England will fall short against the better sides. Every competition when it comes to the crunch and their put under pressure the midfield just don't put their foot on the ball and try and dictate the pace....they just crumble and become headless chickens.
Its that technical midfield general they need. Spain and Italy used to have them in abundance.......

I mean, we don't have a Xavi, Pirlo or Modric. But I just feel there are better options than what we choose to pick.

I guess Scholes was in that class and was criminally wasted by England


It's not about the individual players, but about the lack of technical ability and mental strength endemic to the pool of players that any England manager has to pick from.

Until that is fixed, England won't be. But I guess a few posts about shuffling chairs on the deck of the Titanic will keep work away for a few days.

This is simply not true any more and is a bit of a lazy stereotype. It was true in 2006 - 2010 when our golden generation were found out at the top level, but it seems like the FA have learned from it.

Players like Foden, Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Gibbs-White and Mount are genuinely exciting products with the technical ability you refer to.

Looking at more current players, Winks, Maddison and Gomez are technically sound. Even Stones has the ability on the ball; it's just his defending that's the issue.

Our problem is that we're behind the curve. None of the players referenced are world class players at the peak of their careers. Hopefully this will come as academies continue producing players like these off their conveyor belts. It's certainly a better position than we were in 10 years ago.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 11 Sep 2019 10:53

Old Man Andrews
Sanguine
We don't have a Xavi or Pirlo, so Southgate will need some time to try players in different midfields until we find a formula that works


Defintiely agree with this. Henderson and Rice doesn't really work for me. Rice is someone you'd potentially add to a midfield if you're 2-0 with 70 minutes gone to sure it up a bit, not a starter for me. I would leave Henderson as the Anchorman and have a more creative player just in front of him. Who that is I do not know.

I'd definitely give a Winks, Henderson, Maddison combination a try. But even if it is better than what we currently do, I'd still be concerned to see how it matches up against teams like Spain, France and Belgium.

Our frontline on the other hand - would you say there will be a better one on show at Euro 2020? I don't think so. They won't get the chance to show it if our midfield is outclassed though.

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