England - the future....

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NathStPaul
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Re: England - the future....

by NathStPaul » 29 Mar 2021 11:25

My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 29 Mar 2021 11:38

NathStPaul My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling

Could live with this too; having to leave out one of Foden, Grealish and Mount is a great position for any team to be in.

I just hope he makes the tough decisions picks a balanced team without players out of position. In particular, if you play 3-4-3 with 2 DMs against a team like France, they will dominate position, push you deeper and the extra defender won't stop them over 90 minutes. I cannot think of a more counter productive way to try and neutralise a world class team, but I have a lingering suspicion we'll go out to France or Germany in the last 16 having done exactly that.

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Re: England - the future....

by NathStPaul » 29 Mar 2021 11:46

WestYorksRoyal
NathStPaul My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling

Could live with this too; having to leave out one of Foden, Grealish and Mount is a great position for any team to be in.

I just hope he makes the tough decisions picks a balanced team without players out of position. In particular, if you play 3-4-3 with 2 DMs against a team like France, they will dominate position, push you deeper and the extra defender won't stop them over 90 minutes. I cannot think of a more counter productive way to try and neutralise a world class team, but I have a lingering suspicion we'll go out to France or Germany in the last 16 having done exactly that.

Yeah you're right when it comes to playing against the better sides. I think we need a plan B and a plan C, we were too one dimensional in the last World Cup. Croatia were there for the taking and looked extremely tired yet instead of exploiting that we sat off them and allowed them time on the ball because that is what we did against everyone else and had decent results from it. With the likes of Foden, Grealish and Mount we have options there that can chase down opposition players in possession. Declan Rice is also fairly mobile which helps.

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 29 Mar 2021 12:58

Pope

Shaw
Maguire
Stones
James

Rice - (6)
Mount - (8)
Grealish (10)

Kane

2 of Rashford/Sterling/Sancho on the wings

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 29 Mar 2021 13:00

Southgate will go with ultra-defensive with two CDMs however. The English equivalent of Utd's McFred


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Re: England - the future....

by URZZZZ » 29 Mar 2021 14:44

WestYorksRoyal
NathStPaul My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling

Could live with this too; having to leave out one of Foden, Grealish and Mount is a great position for any team to be in.

I just hope he makes the tough decisions picks a balanced team without players out of position. In particular, if you play 3-4-3 with 2 DMs against a team like France, they will dominate position, push you deeper and the extra defender won't stop them over 90 minutes. I cannot think of a more counter productive way to try and neutralise a world class team, but I have a lingering suspicion we'll go out to France or Germany in the last 16 having done exactly that.


Can see it now, a team of:

Pickford

Walker
Dier
Maguire
Stones
Shaw

Henderson
Rice

Sancho/Rashford
Sterling
Kane


Do like both the teams posted above, even the opportunity to shoehorn in all of Foden, Grealish and Mount in against the weaker nations as its questionable needing both Henderson and Rice in games where were expected to heavily dominate possession, although Rice is another option at CB if Stones and Maguire struggle

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 29 Mar 2021 17:59

I'm sick of the terrible football at Utd when Ole insists on playing McFred

Hence playing Rice in the 6 and trusting him, Stones & McGuire to do their jobs

Mount has been very good this season and can play box-to-box, energy, skill, passing etc

Grealish could be the player that makes the real difference to this team (like Bruno at Utd)

Kane has been world-class this season...creating as well as scoring

Shaw and James are good defenders who can also get up and down the line

The wingers can be a little hit & miss. Rashford has gr8 numbers this season. He can be totally out of a game but score the winner

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 29 Mar 2021 18:02

Fully expect us to go out in the quarters when we meet a half-decent team (semi's if we get a lucky draw)

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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 29 Mar 2021 18:11

BR0B0T Pope

Shaw
Maguire
Stones
James

Rice - (6)
Mount - (8)
Grealish (10)

Kane

2 of Rashford/Sterling/Sancho on the wings


I'd be reasonably happy with that, tbh. Could probably swap Shaw for Chirwell and James for AWB or TAA depending on how the rest of the season goes.


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Re: England - the future....

by Simmops » 29 Mar 2021 21:42

NathStPaul My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling


Southgate has a hard-on for Pickford and Mount so they will undeservedly start

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Re: England - the future....

by Simmops » 29 Mar 2021 21:43

BR0B0T Fully expect us to go out in the quarters when we meet a half-decent team (semi's if we get a lucky draw)


Ireland won't qualify m9!!!!!!!!1!!1!!!!?

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 30 Mar 2021 10:21

Simmops
NathStPaul My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling


Southgate has a hard-on for Pickford and Mount so they will undeservedly start

Mount is entirely deserving of his spot and is greatly underrated. Maybe doesn't have the natural flair of Grealish and Foden, but incredible work rate and he is consistently improving himself technically too. He'll work hard defensively, create goal and score goals. I expect that in 10 years we'll be looking back on the career of one of our most complete midfielders.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 30 Mar 2021 10:23

WestYorksRoyal
Simmops
NathStPaul My Euros starting line up:

Pope

Alexander-Arnold
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Henderson Rice Foden

Grealish Kane Sterling


Southgate has a hard-on for Pickford and Mount so they will undeservedly start

Mount is entirely deserving of his spot and is greatly underrated. Maybe doesn't have the natural flair of Grealish and Foden, but incredible work rate and he is consistently improving himself technically too. He'll work hard defensively, create goal and score goals. I expect that in 10 years we'll be looking back on the career of one of our most complete midfielders.


Yeah, I am all for Mount starting, been really impressed with him both for England and Chelsea.

Tbh, I don't even think Pickford would be an underserving starter either, been much improved this year for Everton.


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Re: England - the future....

by NathStPaul » 30 Mar 2021 11:10

Hendo
WestYorksRoyal
Simmops
Southgate has a hard-on for Pickford and Mount so they will undeservedly start

Mount is entirely deserving of his spot and is greatly underrated. Maybe doesn't have the natural flair of Grealish and Foden, but incredible work rate and he is consistently improving himself technically too. He'll work hard defensively, create goal and score goals. I expect that in 10 years we'll be looking back on the career of one of our most complete midfielders.


Yeah, I am all for Mount starting, been really impressed with him both for England and Chelsea.

Tbh, I don't even think Pickford would be an underserving starter either, been much improved this year for Everton.

Not sure I agree on Pickford from what I have seen of him this season. He always looks like he has a mistake in him, he is also not in the slightest bit commanding on crosses. We have two mediocre CB's who need the back up of a commanding keeper imo. Nick Pope might lack in distribution skills but he is certainly a presence on set pieces, I think he would give the defence a lot more confidence than Pickford would.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 30 Mar 2021 11:23

I'd be anxious about throwing Pope in at a major tournament. Scott Carson and Robert Green show the risks of doing that. If Pope is the future, we should build him up through qualifying and get stability at the back. As it is, there is stability between Pickford and the likes of Stones and Maguire already.

I also think ability with your feet is important to Southgate. If a team presses and cuts off easy passes to your defenders, Pickford is capable of pinging a 50 yard pass straight to the likes of Kane and Sterling; Pope doesn't give that.

But I agree Pickford is more error prone, and Pope is more reliable at actually keeping the ball out of the goal, which is what you traditionally want from your goal keeper.

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Re: England - the future....

by URZZZZ » 30 Mar 2021 12:25

Hendo
BR0B0T Pope

Shaw
Maguire
Stones
James

Rice - (6)
Mount - (8)
Grealish (10)

Kane

2 of Rashford/Sterling/Sancho on the wings


I'd be reasonably happy with that, tbh. Could probably swap Shaw for Chirwell and James for AWB or TAA depending on how the rest of the season goes.


Also the possibility of Walker at RB, although wouldn't be my first choice. Don't expect to see AWB in the England squad anytime soon even if he's improved this season as I still don't think he offers enough offensively

It's a big couple of months for Chilwell who's seemingly lost his place to Alonso in the Chelsea set up - given the squad size is only 23, he may find his squad place a threat if Southgate deems Saka to be a LB - who'd be very unlucky to miss out altogether

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Re: England - the future....

by Taffster » 30 Mar 2021 14:53

WestYorksRoyal I'd be anxious about throwing Pope in at a major tournament. Scott Carson and Robert Green show the risks of doing that. If Pope is the future, we should build him up through qualifying and get stability at the back. As it is, there is stability between Pickford and the likes of Stones and Maguire already.

I also think ability with your feet is important to Southgate. If a team presses and cuts off easy passes to your defenders, Pickford is capable of pinging a 50 yard pass straight to the likes of Kane and Sterling; Pope doesn't give that.

But I agree Pickford is more error prone, and Pope is more reliable at actually keeping the ball out of the goal, which is what you traditionally want from your goal keeper.



I think Pickfords ability with his feet is essential to the way Southgate wants to play, when you consider we have one of the best hold up strikers in the world and a couple of flyers in sterling/rashford/sancho Pickfords ability to launch counter attacks becomes a big threat. Also would say that Pickford seems to be the better keep when it comes to saving pens, I dislike to Pickfords billy big b*llocks attiude but he is who I would want between the sticks in a shoot out. Add in the fact that Southgate plays people he trusts and the fact Pickford hasn't messed up to much on the international stage I can't see him being dislodged as No.1 and in my eyes rightly so.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 31 Mar 2021 10:53

Just because.

Managerial win rates since Alf Ramsay.

Capello 66.7%
Southgate 60.8%
Hoddle 60.7%
Greenwood 60.0%
Eriksson 59.7%
Hodgson 58.9%
McClaren 50.0%
Robson 49.5%
Revie 48.3%
Venables 47.8%
Taylor 47.5%
Keegan 38.9%

I know some of the numbers are close, but Southgate currently has the second best win rate as manager since Alf Ramsay. Lots of caveats and quirks in the numbers of course - for example that Venables' England only lost once (to Brazil), and his record didn't get 'padded' by any qualifying campaigns, as we entered the '96 Euros has hosts, or that Capello stands head and shoulders above the rest (in terms of win rate) with only a couple of actual notable wins (including in Germany) during his entire tenure.

But it puts Southgate in some perspective. Do we want results, or do we want to play pretty football (Keegan's side)? We want both, of course, but we need to be pragmatic in that respect.

As an aside, Bobby Robson - obviously impossible to dislike as a man, Robson is a legend, but I think his record at England manager gets some rose-tinted specs just because Italia '90 was a brilliant World Cup on the whole. He was lucky to keep his job after the Euro '88 shamble, and we qualified for that semi-final with a 1-0 win over Egypt, a David Platt worldie, and a Gary Lineker dive.

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Re: England - the future....

by NathStPaul » 31 Mar 2021 10:57

Sanguine Just because.

Managerial win rates since Alf Ramsay.

Capello 66.7%
Southgate 60.8%
Hoddle 60.7%
Greenwood 60.0%
Eriksson 59.7%
Hodgson 58.9%
McClaren 50.0%
Robson 49.5%
Revie 48.3%
Venables 47.8%
Taylor 47.5%
Keegan 38.9%

I know some of the numbers are close, but Southgate currently has the second best win rate as manager since Alf Ramsay. Lots of caveats and quirks in the numbers of course - for example that Venables' England only lost once (to Brazil), and his record didn't get 'padded' by any qualifying campaigns, as we entered the '96 Euros has hosts, or that Capello stands head and shoulders above the rest (in terms of win rate) with only a couple of actual notable wins (including in Germany) during his entire tenure.

But it puts Southgate in some perspective. Do we want results, or do we want to play pretty football (Keegan's side)? We want both, of course, but we need to be pragmatic in that respect.

As an aside, Bobby Robson - obviously impossible to dislike as a man, Robson is a legend, but I think his record at England manager gets some rose-tinted specs just because Italia '90 was a brilliant World Cup on the whole. He was lucky to keep his job after the Euro '88 shamble, and we qualified for that semi-final with a 1-0 win over Egypt, a David Platt worldie, and a Gary Lineker dive.

The Venables one surprised me, I think the Euro 96 exploits made me think he was wildly successful as England manager. I will say that had he stayed on after Euro 96 that team would have improved massively and had a decent shot at France 98. He was the right sort of manager the type of players we had needed at that time in terms of man management.

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Re: England - the future....

by WestYorksRoyal » 31 Mar 2021 12:23

In hindsight, 02 was a big opportunity. We lost a tight game, where we put in an excellent first 45 minutes. Brazil then beat Turkey and a mediocre Germany. At the time, it felt like the "golden generation" would bounce back and have better opportunities, but their failures from 2006 - 2010 have been lamented to death. 02 and 04 (with Rooney's QF injury) were probably the closest we've come this century. In 18, there's no way we'd have beaten France in the final.

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