Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

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Victor Meldrew
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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Victor Meldrew » 05 Apr 2019 19:22

Danny Rose says he can't wait to finish playing football because of the racism.
Will he give up his millionaire lifestyle?
Of course he won't.
Should he?
Of course not.

I would however have more sympathy for him if he wasn't such a cheating diver, one of the worst in our game ,who sets a terrible example to others.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by AthleticoSpizz » 05 Apr 2019 20:40

Agree and disagree a bit Vic

If he feels so strongly about the abuse that he recieves (and yes! It is unacceptable etc....repeat to fade) then why doesn’t he quit the £s that it brings right now? It’d make the bigger statement.

On the otherhand....why should he be ‘bullied off’ the career that he loves (and is obviously very good at) because of his skin colour?

Racial abuse is (obvs) prevalent within the sport, but it is played-out right down the leagues, his words will do little to improve things there....or was he just misquoted?



We all suffer abuse at some time, sometimes it changes our career path, most often, it doesn’t.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Hoop Blah » 06 Apr 2019 08:16

It goes without saying that Rose, or any other player, should be free to play without getting that kind of abuse, but it should also be remembered that Rose has also had issues with his mental health and so that should probably put a slightly different context to his comments.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Apr 2019 10:59

A further thought-why don't Rose and Sterling ,and any other black player that feels like it ,withdraw their labour?
In doing so they could make the point strongly to our FA that they expect much more from them in speaking out to EUFA and FIFA.

Their wages would be unaffected as they are paid very little for turning out for England and , rather than just moaning to the Press, they would be taking positive action.
Meanwhile they continue to play for their clubs (In Rose's case if selected as he is not a regular starter in games where Spurs need a stronger defender) in England only where nowadays there is nothing of any significance to concern them in terms of racism at matches-if there are any (the one bloke at Chelsea) it does appear that our authorities are now quick to act.

Once the English FA then realise that the success of the England team does depend on black players being included they themselves might make a louder voice to FIFA and EUFA and demand stronger action.

Players just complaining to the Press is not enough IMHO.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by genome » 06 Apr 2019 11:24

Because they shouldn't have to.


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Apr 2019 12:09

genome Because they shouldn't have to.



That's bleedin' obvious.
This is not a perfect world, in case you hadn't noticed, so sometimes it requires people to stand up for things and take action rather than sit on their hands and do oxf*rd all.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Franchise FC » 08 Apr 2019 12:56

Posted this elsewhere (a little faux pas on my part)

In response to whether personal responsibility can be taken for crowd 'intervention'

Take the incident in the Motherwell/Rangers game at the weekend. If the relevant authority made it a rule that either the culprit was pointed out by the crowd section or that whole section was escorted out, there may be some movement to stop it. I can't see a whole section being happy with missing the rest of a game. It would prevent an opposition fan causing a problem to get a stadium closed or a game abandoned. (It'll give the stewards something to do as well)

May work for the racist stuff as well, although may be a little more difficult to identify someone shouting than throwing something.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Hoop Blah » 08 Apr 2019 13:46

Franchise FC Posted this elsewhere (a little faux pas on my part)

In response to whether personal responsibility can be taken for crowd 'intervention'

Take the incident in the Motherwell/Rangers game at the weekend. If the relevant authority made it a rule that either the culprit was pointed out by the crowd section or that whole section was escorted out, there may be some movement to stop it. I can't see a whole section being happy with missing the rest of a game. It would prevent an opposition fan causing a problem to get a stadium closed or a game abandoned. (It'll give the stewards something to do as well)

May work for the racist stuff as well, although may be a little more difficult to identify someone shouting than throwing something.


I can't see a whole section of away fans being escorted out when they won't even ask them to sit down for fear of sparking a riot!

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by John Madejski's Wallet » 08 Apr 2019 13:47

Hoop Blah
Franchise FC Posted this elsewhere (a little faux pas on my part)

In response to whether personal responsibility can be taken for crowd 'intervention'

Take the incident in the Motherwell/Rangers game at the weekend. If the relevant authority made it a rule that either the culprit was pointed out by the crowd section or that whole section was escorted out, there may be some movement to stop it. I can't see a whole section being happy with missing the rest of a game. It would prevent an opposition fan causing a problem to get a stadium closed or a game abandoned. (It'll give the stewards something to do as well)

May work for the racist stuff as well, although may be a little more difficult to identify someone shouting than throwing something.


I can't see a whole section of away fans being escorted out when they won't even ask them to sit down for fear of sparking a riot!

No, but the whole section could be banned for the next game. Easy enough to block on the electronic cards.....


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Hoop Blah » 08 Apr 2019 13:55

John Madejski's Wallet No, but the whole section could be banned for the next game. Easy enough to block on the electronic cards.....


For some grounds/clubs perhaps, but not all by any means, and probably not at all for away fans.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Franchise FC » 08 Apr 2019 14:20

John Madejski's Wallet
Hoop Blah
Franchise FC Posted this elsewhere (a little faux pas on my part)

In response to whether personal responsibility can be taken for crowd 'intervention'

Take the incident in the Motherwell/Rangers game at the weekend. If the relevant authority made it a rule that either the culprit was pointed out by the crowd section or that whole section was escorted out, there may be some movement to stop it. I can't see a whole section being happy with missing the rest of a game. It would prevent an opposition fan causing a problem to get a stadium closed or a game abandoned. (It'll give the stewards something to do as well)

May work for the racist stuff as well, although may be a little more difficult to identify someone shouting than throwing something.


I can't see a whole section of away fans being escorted out when they won't even ask them to sit down for fear of sparking a riot!

No, but the whole section could be banned for the next game. Easy enough to block on the electronic cards.....


I wonder how many would be able to 'get away with it' though. It would only take one or two to point out the culprits.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 08 Apr 2019 14:34

Victor Meldrew
genome Because they shouldn't have to.



That's bleedin' obvious.
This is not a perfect world, in case you hadn't noticed, so sometimes it requires people to stand up for things and take action rather than sit on their hands and do oxf*rd all.


The point being that it shouldn't be up to players to do so because they happen to be black, not least since that can/might lead to more instances of abuse. It is something for the game to deal with, not black men. It isn't good enough to say 'well you're black, stop playing if you don't like it.'

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Apr 2019 15:18

Sanguine
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genome Because they shouldn't have to.



That's bleedin' obvious.
This is not a perfect world, in case you hadn't noticed, so sometimes it requires people to stand up for things and take action rather than sit on their hands and do oxf*rd all.


The point being that it shouldn't be up to players to do so because they happen to be black, not least since that can/might lead to more instances of abuse. It is something for the game to deal with, not black men. It isn't good enough to say 'well you're black, stop playing if you don't like it.'


In an ideal world yes but it is not an ideal world.
Rather than just walking off the pitch, which no longer seems to happen,I believe it is up to the referee to stop the game and take the players off.

In the meantime, as I posted earlier,our FA needs to lobby FIFA and EUFA much more strongly than they appear to have done-if that then fails then the players should do what I have suggested, withdraw their labour and refuse to play for their country.
Sometimes in life positive action needs to be taken to bring about change rather than just always expect other people to sort out your problems.


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 08 Apr 2019 15:41

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That's bleedin' obvious.
This is not a perfect world, in case you hadn't noticed, so sometimes it requires people to stand up for things and take action rather than sit on their hands and do oxf*rd all.


The point being that it shouldn't be up to players to do so because they happen to be black, not least since that can/might lead to more instances of abuse. It is something for the game to deal with, not black men. It isn't good enough to say 'well you're black, stop playing if you don't like it.'


In an ideal world yes but it is not an ideal world.
Rather than just walking off the pitch, which no longer seems to happen,I believe it is up to the referee to stop the game and take the players off.

In the meantime, as I posted earlier,our FA needs to lobby FIFA and EUFA much more strongly than they appear to have done-if that then fails then the players should do what I have suggested, withdraw their labour and refuse to play for their country.
Sometimes in life positive action needs to be taken to bring about change rather than just always expect other people to sort out your problems.


Wow.

Vic - racism is not Danny Rose's problem, or Raheem Sterling's. It is football's problem. It's a problem with society.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Apr 2019 15:55

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The point being that it shouldn't be up to players to do so because they happen to be black, not least since that can/might lead to more instances of abuse. It is something for the game to deal with, not black men. It isn't good enough to say 'well you're black, stop playing if you don't like it.'


In an ideal world yes but it is not an ideal world.
Rather than just walking off the pitch, which no longer seems to happen,I believe it is up to the referee to stop the game and take the players off.

In the meantime, as I posted earlier,our FA needs to lobby FIFA and EUFA much more strongly than they appear to have done-if that then fails then the players should do what I have suggested, withdraw their labour and refuse to play for their country.
Sometimes in life positive action needs to be taken to bring about change rather than just always expect other people to sort out your problems.


Wow.

Vic - racism is not Danny Rose's problem, or Raheem Sterling's. It is football's problem. It's a problem with society.


A bit of an extreme example but do you think the late great Martin Luther King thought that he should leave everything to the authorities?
If everybody who felt victimised in life just sat on their hands and did nothing do you think things would still get done (perhaps so in the world of Theresa May and her cohorts)?

People are looking for solutions here and if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told then perhaps a more radical solution is needed and the withdrawal of labour could be a good starting point.

Nobody else seems to come up with anything more than "somebody ought to sort this out"-words but no action.

BTW I now put you in the same category as Snowflake, i.e. always looking to make an argument where an argument often doesn't exist, something that I notice have been guilty of recently..

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 08 Apr 2019 16:02

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In an ideal world yes but it is not an ideal world.
Rather than just walking off the pitch, which no longer seems to happen,I believe it is up to the referee to stop the game and take the players off.

In the meantime, as I posted earlier,our FA needs to lobby FIFA and EUFA much more strongly than they appear to have done-if that then fails then the players should do what I have suggested, withdraw their labour and refuse to play for their country.
Sometimes in life positive action needs to be taken to bring about change rather than just always expect other people to sort out your problems.


Wow.

Vic - racism is not Danny Rose's problem, or Raheem Sterling's. It is football's problem. It's a problem with society.


A bit of an extreme example but do you think the late great Martin Luther King thought that he should leave everything to the authorities?
If everybody who felt victimised in life just sat on their hands and did nothing do you think things would still get done (perhaps so in the world of Theresa May and her cohorts)?

People are looking for solutions here and if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told then perhaps a more radical solution is needed and the withdrawal of labour could be a good starting point.

Nobody else seems to come up with anything more than "somebody ought to sort this out"-words but no action.

BTW I now put you in the same category as Snowflake, i.e. always looking to make an argument where an argument often doesn't exist, something that I notice have been guilty of recently..


I disagree that an argument doesn't exist. It's your language I'm questioning. This isn't a couple of people who feel picked on so need to make a change to their life, or a group of people who have decided that they 'feel victimised', it's a societal problem that we all bear responsibility for. Well, most of us, anyway, based on

if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told.

It's not much a stretch to suggest that you don't believe that it is.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Hoop Blah » 08 Apr 2019 16:35

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I can't see a whole section of away fans being escorted out when they won't even ask them to sit down for fear of sparking a riot!

No, but the whole section could be banned for the next game. Easy enough to block on the electronic cards.....


I wonder how many would be able to 'get away with it' though. It would only take one or two to point out the culprits.


Which begs the question, could fans get stitched up and wrongfully accused by other fans with a bit of an axe to grind?

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Franchise FC » 08 Apr 2019 16:45

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John Madejski's Wallet No, but the whole section could be banned for the next game. Easy enough to block on the electronic cards.....


I wonder how many would be able to 'get away with it' though. It would only take one or two to point out the culprits.


Which begs the question, could fans get stitched up and wrongfully accused by other fans with a bit of an axe to grind?


Yeah, that is the potential downside.

Short term we would/may have to accept a few 'innocents' getting thrown out to solve a bigger problem.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Apr 2019 17:18

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Wow.

Vic - racism is not Danny Rose's problem, or Raheem Sterling's. It is football's problem. It's a problem with society.


A bit of an extreme example but do you think the late great Martin Luther King thought that he should leave everything to the authorities?
If everybody who felt victimised in life just sat on their hands and did nothing do you think things would still get done (perhaps so in the world of Theresa May and her cohorts)?

People are looking for solutions here and if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told then perhaps a more radical solution is needed and the withdrawal of labour could be a good starting point.

Nobody else seems to come up with anything more than "somebody ought to sort this out"-words but no action.

BTW I now put you in the same category as Snowflake, i.e. always looking to make an argument where an argument often doesn't exist, something that I notice have been guilty of recently..


I disagree that an argument doesn't exist. It's your language I'm questioning. This isn't a couple of people who feel picked on so need to make a change to their life, or a group of people who have decided that they 'feel victimised', it's a societal problem that we all bear responsibility for. Well, most of us, anyway, based on

if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told.

It's not much a stretch to suggest that you don't believe that it is.


So, apart from your version of somebody ought to do something about it-what do you suggest?
i have come up with an idea that might be radical but also might get a message across.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 09 Apr 2019 09:15

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A bit of an extreme example but do you think the late great Martin Luther King thought that he should leave everything to the authorities?
If everybody who felt victimised in life just sat on their hands and did nothing do you think things would still get done (perhaps so in the world of Theresa May and her cohorts)?

People are looking for solutions here and if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told then perhaps a more radical solution is needed and the withdrawal of labour could be a good starting point.

Nobody else seems to come up with anything more than "somebody ought to sort this out"-words but no action.

BTW I now put you in the same category as Snowflake, i.e. always looking to make an argument where an argument often doesn't exist, something that I notice have been guilty of recently..


I disagree that an argument doesn't exist. It's your language I'm questioning. This isn't a couple of people who feel picked on so need to make a change to their life, or a group of people who have decided that they 'feel victimised', it's a societal problem that we all bear responsibility for. Well, most of us, anyway, based on

if it is as serious a matter as we are constantly told.

It's not much a stretch to suggest that you don't believe that it is.


So, apart from your version of somebody ought to do something about it-what do you suggest?
i have come up with an idea that might be radical but also might get a message across.


Football associations, UEFA, FIFA etc, need to get tough on racism in football grounds. And that needs to be both a professional and grass roots level. Matches should be abandoned, points forfeited, places in competitions lost.

Telling black players that if they really feel victimised then they should walk off is not 'radical', it is implicitly suggesting that there is no problem to be dealt with.

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