VAR

802 posts
User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13864
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 29 Oct 2019 22:23

As predicted, VAR isn't really solving any of the issues video technology was supposed to address.

At the same time it's created it's own issues, slowed down the game at times, impacted on the way referees appear to be making decisions, and it's starting to have a negative effect on the joy of watching a game.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9624
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: VAR

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Oct 2019 08:50

Sanguine
John Madejski's Wallet
Sanguine
:|

he didn't 'accidentally touch someone', he trod on his foot. That's a foul anywhere else on the pitch, so it's a penalty too. I found the MoTD analysis of the Keane foul frustrating. They (and Shearer in particular) have rightly been highlighting how VAR hadn't been used up to now to <i>give</i> a penalty, and the second that it is, and it was a foul whether Keane intended contact or not, they are up in arms. Bizarre.

Wahey :D , been waiting for you to come and defend your beloved VAR. No one apart from you and the VAR ref thinks that was a pen


Well, a) that's not true, and b) VAR is not my 'beloved' (when did you morph into DD), I just try to have a level of debate beyond 'waaaaaaa, stop spoiling my footballz!'

Sangers is right. Treading on someone's foot accidentally and impeding them is still a foul even if it was an accident.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2310
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: VAR

by URZZZZ » 30 Oct 2019 13:09

But then you look at some of the incidents VAR hasn’t given and you wonder how the Brighton one can be given compared to others

And this is where I find VAR confusing. I thought they were only meant to overrule something which is a “clear and obvious error”. Take an offside decision by literally millimetres. If the linesman doesn’t flag it, can they really overrule him? Is the situation defined as a “clear and obvious error” if we’re talking about millimetres here. I’d have thought that if they were spending minutes and minutes looking at the situation, it’s not clear or obvious, otherwise they’d have already made their mind up

If they could iron out the inconsistencies that arises because of VAR and if it wasn’t so slow, people may become on board with it. Personally, after three months, i haven’t seen any signs of development which is why I think it needs to go, along with other people. But I guess time will tell. There has been occasions this season where it has been used to good effect

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13864
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 30 Oct 2019 14:15

URZZZZ But then you look at some of the incidents VAR hasn’t given and you wonder how the Brighton one can be given compared to others

And this is where I find VAR confusing. I thought they were only meant to overrule something which is a “clear and obvious error”. Take an offside decision by literally millimetres. If the linesman doesn’t flag it, can they really overrule him? Is the situation defined as a “clear and obvious error” if we’re talking about millimetres here. I’d have thought that if they were spending minutes and minutes looking at the situation, it’s not clear or obvious, otherwise they’d have already made their mind up

If they could iron out the inconsistencies that arises because of VAR and if it wasn’t so slow, people may become on board with it. Personally, after three months, i haven’t seen any signs of development which is why I think it needs to go, along with other people. But I guess time will tell. There has been occasions this season where it has been used to good effect


I believe that the checks run against a goal for things like offside are deemed to be factual checks and so clear and obvious doesn't come into it. It's not accurate to make calls of the nature it is though, so it's ridiculous the extent they've gone to.

The rest is all just one subjective opinion vs another because they're not making factual judgements. There's no consistency and there's no real benefit to them game.

It's interesting that there is always this comparison with how well it works in Rugby. From the little I've followed of the RWC, TMO has made a number of errors and taken ages over them too. The communication is infinitely better, yes, but it's still nowhere near a perfect solution.

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3989
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: The Frozen North

Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 30 Oct 2019 16:05

Hoop Blah
URZZZZ But then you look at some of the incidents VAR hasn’t given and you wonder how the Brighton one can be given compared to others

And this is where I find VAR confusing. I thought they were only meant to overrule something which is a “clear and obvious error”. Take an offside decision by literally millimetres. If the linesman doesn’t flag it, can they really overrule him? Is the situation defined as a “clear and obvious error” if we’re talking about millimetres here. I’d have thought that if they were spending minutes and minutes looking at the situation, it’s not clear or obvious, otherwise they’d have already made their mind up

If they could iron out the inconsistencies that arises because of VAR and if it wasn’t so slow, people may become on board with it. Personally, after three months, i haven’t seen any signs of development which is why I think it needs to go, along with other people. But I guess time will tell. There has been occasions this season where it has been used to good effect


I believe that the checks run against a goal for things like offside are deemed to be factual checks and so clear and obvious doesn't come into it. It's not accurate to make calls of the nature it is though, so it's ridiculous the extent they've gone to.

The rest is all just one subjective opinion vs another because they're not making factual judgements. There's no consistency and there's no real benefit to them game.

It's interesting that there is always this comparison with how well it works in Rugby. From the little I've followed of the RWC, TMO has made a number of errors and taken ages over them too. The communication is infinitely better, yes, but it's still nowhere near a perfect solution.

Right or wrong, the rugby TMO is with a screen visible to the crowd (both live and on tv), with communication audible to the crowd and the very least they do is justify their decision with both touch judges, the referee and the TMO coming to a joint decision. And yes, they still get some things wrong, but my experience is very few.
However, the clock is stopped for the TMO so no game time is lost at all, so the 'ages' is irrelevant - unlike football


User avatar
John Madejski's Wallet
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 11569
Joined: 10 Apr 2005 00:22
Location: Anyone who lives within their means shows a serious lack of imagination

Re: VAR

by John Madejski's Wallet » 30 Oct 2019 19:04

Snowflake Royal
Sanguine
John Madejski's Wallet Wahey :D , been waiting for you to come and defend your beloved VAR. No one apart from you and the VAR ref thinks that was a pen


Well, a) that's not true, and b) VAR is not my 'beloved' (when did you morph into DD), I just try to have a level of debate beyond 'waaaaaaa, stop spoiling my footballz!'

Sangers is right. Treading on someone's foot accidentally and impeding them is still a foul even if it was an accident.

Impeding my arse

And you know it's not a pen when the receiving manager sheepishly laughs at being lucky with the decision

Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6556
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: VAR

by Victor Meldrew » 30 Oct 2019 19:37

Franchise FC
Hoop Blah
URZZZZ But then you look at some of the incidents VAR hasn’t given and you wonder how the Brighton one can be given compared to others

And this is where I find VAR confusing. I thought they were only meant to overrule something which is a “clear and obvious error”. Take an offside decision by literally millimetres. If the linesman doesn’t flag it, can they really overrule him? Is the situation defined as a “clear and obvious error” if we’re talking about millimetres here. I’d have thought that if they were spending minutes and minutes looking at the situation, it’s not clear or obvious, otherwise they’d have already made their mind up

If they could iron out the inconsistencies that arises because of VAR and if it wasn’t so slow, people may become on board with it. Personally, after three months, i haven’t seen any signs of development which is why I think it needs to go, along with other people. But I guess time will tell. There has been occasions this season where it has been used to good effect


I believe that the checks run against a goal for things like offside are deemed to be factual checks and so clear and obvious doesn't come into it. It's not accurate to make calls of the nature it is though, so it's ridiculous the extent they've gone to.

The rest is all just one subjective opinion vs another because they're not making factual judgements. There's no consistency and there's no real benefit to them game.

It's interesting that there is always this comparison with how well it works in Rugby. From the little I've followed of the RWC, TMO has made a number of errors and taken ages over them too. The communication is infinitely better, yes, but it's still nowhere near a perfect solution.

Right or wrong, the rugby TMO is with a screen visible to the crowd (both live and on tv), with communication audible to the crowd and the very least they do is justify their decision with both touch judges, the referee and the TMO coming to a joint decision. And yes, they still get some things wrong, but my experience is very few.
However, the clock is stopped for the TMO so no game time is lost at all, so the 'ages' is irrelevant - unlike football


"unlike football"?
Time is added on (or is meant to be) for VAR stoppages by the ref.

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3989
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: The Frozen North

Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 31 Oct 2019 06:48

Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC
Hoop Blah
I believe that the checks run against a goal for things like offside are deemed to be factual checks and so clear and obvious doesn't come into it. It's not accurate to make calls of the nature it is though, so it's ridiculous the extent they've gone to.

The rest is all just one subjective opinion vs another because they're not making factual judgements. There's no consistency and there's no real benefit to them game.

It's interesting that there is always this comparison with how well it works in Rugby. From the little I've followed of the RWC, TMO has made a number of errors and taken ages over them too. The communication is infinitely better, yes, but it's still nowhere near a perfect solution.

Right or wrong, the rugby TMO is with a screen visible to the crowd (both live and on tv), with communication audible to the crowd and the very least they do is justify their decision with both touch judges, the referee and the TMO coming to a joint decision. And yes, they still get some things wrong, but my experience is very few.
However, the clock is stopped for the TMO so no game time is lost at all, so the 'ages' is irrelevant - unlike football


"unlike football"?
Time is added on (or is meant to be) for VAR stoppages by the ref.

But that’s exactly the point. Time is ‘specifically’ added on in rugby and ‘might’ be added on in football. Time is managed by what is effectively the fourth official in rugby and should be in football.

Sanguine
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 12056
Joined: 27 Feb 2013 14:36

Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 31 Oct 2019 09:58

John Madejski's Wallet
Snowflake Royal
Sanguine
Well, a) that's not true, and b) VAR is not my 'beloved' (when did you morph into DD), I just try to have a level of debate beyond 'waaaaaaa, stop spoiling my footballz!'

Sangers is right. Treading on someone's foot accidentally and impeding them is still a foul even if it was an accident.

Impeding my arse

And you know it's not a pen when the receiving manager sheepishly laughs at being lucky with the decision


Struggling to see how treading on someone's foot doesn't impede someone in a game of football.


Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6556
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: VAR

by Victor Meldrew » 31 Oct 2019 10:11

Franchise FC
Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC Right or wrong, the rugby TMO is with a screen visible to the crowd (both live and on tv), with communication audible to the crowd and the very least they do is justify their decision with both touch judges, the referee and the TMO coming to a joint decision. And yes, they still get some things wrong, but my experience is very few.
However, the clock is stopped for the TMO so no game time is lost at all, so the 'ages' is irrelevant - unlike football


"unlike football"?
Time is added on (or is meant to be) for VAR stoppages by the ref.

But that’s exactly the point. Time is ‘specifically’ added on in rugby and ‘might’ be added on in football. Time is managed by what is effectively the fourth official in rugby and should be in football.


Couldn't agree more, that's why I added "or is meant to be".

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3989
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: The Frozen North

Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 31 Oct 2019 10:43

Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC
Victor Meldrew
"unlike football"?
Time is added on (or is meant to be) for VAR stoppages by the ref.

But that’s exactly the point. Time is ‘specifically’ added on in rugby and ‘might’ be added on in football. Time is managed by what is effectively the fourth official in rugby and should be in football.


Couldn't agree more, that's why I added "or is meant to be".

I think I might be arguing with the wrong person :oops:

Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6556
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: VAR

by Victor Meldrew » 31 Oct 2019 10:50

Franchise FC
Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC But that’s exactly the point. Time is ‘specifically’ added on in rugby and ‘might’ be added on in football. Time is managed by what is effectively the fourth official in rugby and should be in football.


Couldn't agree more, that's why I added "or is meant to be".

I think I might be arguing with the wrong person :oops:


The Great (or grey) Buffoon? :wink:

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3989
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: The Frozen North

Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 31 Oct 2019 13:28

Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC
Victor Meldrew
Couldn't agree more, that's why I added "or is meant to be".

I think I might be arguing with the wrong person :oops:


The Great (or grey) Buffoon? :wink:

I wouldn't argue with the Great Buffoon - just invite him to choose a ditch.

I'm happy to phone the coroner and even pay for the phone call (well, my company will, of course)

p.s. What makes you think I'm grey - or is that you ?


Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6556
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: VAR

by Victor Meldrew » 31 Oct 2019 14:42

Franchise FC
Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC I think I might be arguing with the wrong person :oops:


The Great (or grey) Buffoon? :wink:

I wouldn't argue with the Great Buffoon - just invite him to choose a ditch.

I'm happy to phone the coroner and even pay for the phone call (well, my company will, of course)

p.s. What makes you think I'm grey - or is that you ?


Surprisingly, despite being ancient, I don't have much grey.
No, the "grey" man is the buffoon with the wayward hair, matching his personality.
BTW, The Fat Dictator, Billy Bunter Liar or The Dozy Ditchman might suit as well.

User avatar
Old Man Andrews
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11133
Joined: 02 Oct 2017 13:06
Location: The South of England

Re: VAR

by Old Man Andrews » 31 Oct 2019 14:44

Politics thread :arrow:

Talking about football is the only way to forget the omnishambles of our current political system.

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3989
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: The Frozen North

Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 31 Oct 2019 16:15

Victor Meldrew
Franchise FC
Victor Meldrew
The Great (or grey) Buffoon? :wink:

I wouldn't argue with the Great Buffoon - just invite him to choose a ditch.

I'm happy to phone the coroner and even pay for the phone call (well, my company will, of course)

p.s. What makes you think I'm grey - or is that you ?


Surprisingly, despite being ancient, I don't have much grey.
No, the "grey" man is the buffoon with the wayward hair, matching his personality.
BTW, The Fat Dictator, Billy Bunter Liar or The Dozy Ditchman might suit as well.


I really like The Dozy Ditchman :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
tmesis
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1393
Joined: 16 Aug 2013 20:26

Re: VAR

by tmesis » 01 Nov 2019 21:16

Hoop Blah As predicted, VAR isn't really solving any of the issues video technology was supposed to address.

At the same time it's created it's own issues, slowed down the game at times, impacted on the way referees appear to be making decisions, and it's starting to have a negative effect on the joy of watching a game.

I was in favour of VAR at first, but I think it's having a very negative impact on the game. All it seems to be used for is to rule out goals because a player was half an inch offside.

User avatar
Franchise FC
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3989
Joined: 22 May 2007 16:24
Location: The Frozen North

Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 02 Nov 2019 04:33

tmesis
Hoop Blah As predicted, VAR isn't really solving any of the issues video technology was supposed to address.

At the same time it's created it's own issues, slowed down the game at times, impacted on the way referees appear to be making decisions, and it's starting to have a negative effect on the joy of watching a game.

I was in favour of VAR at first, but I think it's having a very negative impact on the game. All it seems to be used for is to rule out goals because a player was half an inch offside.

I've been very consistent in my view. It's GPS (the goal prevention system).

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8724
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: VAR

by Sutekh » 03 Nov 2019 07:41

VAR a disaster yet again. How on earth was Firmino offside?

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13864
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 03 Nov 2019 10:33

Sutekh VAR a disaster yet again. How on earth was Firmino offside?


I've not seen it, but heard it was given for his armpit being offside or something daft!

How close a call was it? These marginal decisions are still being made with technology that just isn't accurate enough to be able to make these calls with 100% confidence so I don't understand why it's being allowed.

802 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

It is currently 11 Dec 2019 08:18