by Franchise FC » 20 Jan 2021 20:08
URZZZZ More VAR nonsense
Should have called City’s first off
Franchise FCURZZZZ More VAR nonsense
Should have called City’s first off
There’s been some nonsensical decisions with VAR but shirley this just about tops the lot.
To be fair, he was only 20 yards offside so maybe they couldn’t get the margin lines to stretch that far
Sanguine Rather than just piling in on Villa - and pretending all and sundry understand the rules fully (I certainly didn't on this one) - the more important debate is whether Villa were a victim here of dodgy rules, rather than VAR. I can understand Smith being angry.
We have a situation where VAR is used to show an attacking player being offside at any point during the build-up to a goal, so it isn't unreasonable to expect confusion when Rodri appears to be exactly that player, albeit in this case Mings controlling the ball 'resetting' that process and rendering Rodri onside. So Rodri 'becomes' onside, despite having clearly been offside when the ball was played forward, despite Rodri himself not moving. It's hardly clear as day and not something we see a lot of.
BR0B0T Is Rodri affecting play in the position he is in?
If Rodri isn't there then Mings may/prolly have let the ball bounce through to the keeper. Rodri forces Mings to make a decision. However, you could argue he's so far away that he isn't involved with play
Is there a second phase when Mings touches the ball?
If yes, then all the above is negated and doesn't matter. It's arguable either way that there was enough time to call it a second phase. Had Rodri challenged for a header he'd have been offside.
I think by current rules Rodri is prolly onside. Wasn't affecting play (debatable) and the second phase is the moment it touches Mings
This is a grey area that needs clearing up
NamelessBR0B0T Is Rodri affecting play in the position he is in?
If Rodri isn't there then Mings may/prolly have let the ball bounce through to the keeper. Rodri forces Mings to make a decision. However, you could argue he's so far away that he isn't involved with play
Is there a second phase when Mings touches the ball?
If yes, then all the above is negated and doesn't matter. It's arguable either way that there was enough time to call it a second phase. Had Rodri challenged for a header he'd have been offside.
I think by current rules Rodri is prolly onside. Wasn't affecting play (debatable) and the second phase is the moment it touches Mings
This is a grey area that needs clearing up
Mings should have let the ball go through (Rodri couldn’t get involved in any way as he would have become offside)
When Mings plays the ball Rodri becomes onside.
I think the one possible area of debate is whether Rodri deliberately runs back to tackle Mings in which case he was offside from the original move. But he doesn’t, he’s runs straight back at a jog rather than sprinting towards Mings. Mings miscontrols the ball (possibly because he knows Rodri is around, although if that’s was the case he shouldn’t have chested the ball down) and then Rodri takes possession.
SanguineNamelessBR0B0T Is Rodri affecting play in the position he is in?
If Rodri isn't there then Mings may/prolly have let the ball bounce through to the keeper. Rodri forces Mings to make a decision. However, you could argue he's so far away that he isn't involved with play
Is there a second phase when Mings touches the ball?
If yes, then all the above is negated and doesn't matter. It's arguable either way that there was enough time to call it a second phase. Had Rodri challenged for a header he'd have been offside.
I think by current rules Rodri is prolly onside. Wasn't affecting play (debatable) and the second phase is the moment it touches Mings
This is a grey area that needs clearing up
Mings should have let the ball go through (Rodri couldn’t get involved in any way as he would have become offside)
When Mings plays the ball Rodri becomes onside.
I think the one possible area of debate is whether Rodri deliberately runs back to tackle Mings in which case he was offside from the original move. But he doesn’t, he’s runs straight back at a jog rather than sprinting towards Mings. Mings miscontrols the ball (possibly because he knows Rodri is around, although if that’s was the case he shouldn’t have chested the ball down) and then Rodri takes possession.
It's a stupid rule. It shouldn't be up to a defender to manage the phase of play an opponent is in.
NamelessSanguineNameless
Mings should have let the ball go through (Rodri couldn’t get involved in any way as he would have become offside)
When Mings plays the ball Rodri becomes onside.
I think the one possible area of debate is whether Rodri deliberately runs back to tackle Mings in which case he was offside from the original move. But he doesn’t, he’s runs straight back at a jog rather than sprinting towards Mings. Mings miscontrols the ball (possibly because he knows Rodri is around, although if that’s was the case he shouldn’t have chested the ball down) and then Rodri takes possession.
It's a stupid rule. It shouldn't be up to a defender to manage the phase of play an opponent is in.
I suspect if you changed it thenit would throw up even dafter scenarios. Once the opposition have control of the ball why should you still be offside ?
SanguineNamelessSanguine
It's a stupid rule. It shouldn't be up to a defender to manage the phase of play an opponent is in.
I suspect if you changed it thenit would throw up even dafter scenarios. Once the opposition have control of the ball why should you still be offside ?
I think that 'controlled the ball' is somewhat disingenuous here, and that's why this rule is problematic. Rodri is measured (by the BBC) has 3.5m from Mings when the ball hits his chest. He immediately moves towards Mings before the ball has hit the floor or Mings's foot.
NamelessSanguineNameless
I suspect if you changed it thenit would throw up even dafter scenarios. Once the opposition have control of the ball why should you still be offside ?
I think that 'controlled the ball' is somewhat disingenuous here, and that's why this rule is problematic. Rodri is measured (by the BBC) has 3.5m from Mings when the ball hits his chest. He immediately moves towards Mings before the ball has hit the floor or Mings's foot.
Is it less problematic if we’d use the phrase ‘intentionally played’ ?
SanguineNamelessSanguine
I think that 'controlled the ball' is somewhat disingenuous here, and that's why this rule is problematic. Rodri is measured (by the BBC) has 3.5m from Mings when the ball hits his chest. He immediately moves towards Mings before the ball has hit the floor or Mings's foot.
Is it less problematic if we’d use the phrase ‘intentionally played’ ?
The rule is clearer, but no less stupid since, as I said earlier, it require Mings to manage the phase of play that Rodri is in with a decision on whether to play the ball (when Rodri isn't the only variable).
Sanguine I'm much less bothered about managers losing their shit (however justifiably) than I am about stupid rules.
NamelessSanguine I'm much less bothered about managers losing their shit (however justifiably) than I am about stupid rules.
How would you change the rule ?
It’s a pretty basic aspect of offside that you aren’t offside I feel the ball is last played by an opponent.
SanguineNamelessSanguine I'm much less bothered about managers losing their shit (however justifiably) than I am about stupid rules.
How would you change the rule ?
It’s a pretty basic aspect of offside that you aren’t offside I feel the ball is last played by an opponent.
No idea, but there is clearly a problem where you can come from an offside position, and just 3.5m from the defender when the balls gets to him, and immediately be onside and challenge from the ball.
Sanguine I'm disappointed that you're claiming Rodri made no movement towards Mings 'until he messed up his control'. If we're not going to stick to facts that can be clearly seen in the replays then the discussion becomes pointless.
by Franchise FC » 21 Jan 2021 13:48
Sanguine I'm disappointed that you're claiming Rodri made no movement towards Mings 'until he messed up his control'. If we're not going to stick to facts that can be clearly seen in the replays then the discussion becomes pointless.
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