VAR

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genome
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Re: VAR

by genome » 22 Aug 2019 10:48

Sanguine Separately, I think over time fans will come to understand and accept more and more what VAR is for and when it will be used.

A slightly different idea I had that might help this is a VAR app that fans could download, and to which VAR decisions (I think I read it is broadly 11-12 reviews a game) can be uploaded in real time. Understanding the process behind the scenes and the reasoning behind decisions made would help fans get a grasp on what is occurring on the pitch.


I'd like to see something like Cricket where the decision making conversation is broadcast over the tannoy.

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Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 22 Aug 2019 11:43

genome
Sanguine Separately, I think over time fans will come to understand and accept more and more what VAR is for and when it will be used.

A slightly different idea I had that might help this is a VAR app that fans could download, and to which VAR decisions (I think I read it is broadly 11-12 reviews a game) can be uploaded in real time. Understanding the process behind the scenes and the reasoning behind decisions made would help fans get a grasp on what is occurring on the pitch.


I'd like to see something like Cricket where the decision making conversation is broadcast over the tannoy.


But then we're back to the problem that it's a subjective decision. We don't get a running commentary on every other decision a referee makes so I'm not too fussed about hearing that Ref A thinks he fell in the wrong direction for something not to be a foul.

When it's a factual decisions then yeah, whack it up on the scoreboard or announce it over the PA system, but otherwise it's just feeding into the controversy.

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 22 Aug 2019 12:37

It's only controversial if you don't accept that refereeing is subjective, when in fact that's exactly the reason you suggest that we shouldn't use VAR.
You're a sensible man HB, and on, say, the City penalty incident, I can believe that you think it was a foul, I do too, but I struggle to believe that you can't understand how the VAR officials chose not to overturn the referee's decision.

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Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 22 Aug 2019 12:56

Sanguine It's only controversial if you don't accept that refereeing is subjective, when in fact that's exactly the reason you suggest that we shouldn't use VAR.
You're a sensible man HB, and on, say, the City penalty incident, I can believe that you think it was a foul, I do too, but I struggle to believe that you can't understand how the VAR officials chose not to overturn the referee's decision.


I totally understand why they haven't overturned it. It just makes a bit of a mockery of having VAR in the first place and shows why it's a pretty flawed system.

It's supposed to improve the accuracy of decisions, but on what most people think is a wrong decision, they've failed to do anything about it.

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 22 Aug 2019 13:23

Hoop Blah
Sanguine It's only controversial if you don't accept that refereeing is subjective, when in fact that's exactly the reason you suggest that we shouldn't use VAR.
You're a sensible man HB, and on, say, the City penalty incident, I can believe that you think it was a foul, I do too, but I struggle to believe that you can't understand how the VAR officials chose not to overturn the referee's decision.


I totally understand why they haven't overturned it. It just makes a bit of a mockery of having VAR in the first place and shows why it's a pretty flawed system.

It's supposed to improve the accuracy of decisions, but on what most people think is a wrong decision, they've failed to do anything about it.


It shows exactly the opposite. You state quite happily that you can see why they haven't overturned it, which means that the system is working well, and used only to overturn 'clear and obvious' errors. If you can see why they haven't, then by definition it can't be 'clear and obvious'.

Either wyay though, decisions will remain subjective. I sincerely have no idea why people can't understand the distinction between 'better decisions' and 'decisions that are never up for debate'.


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Re: VAR

by Hoop Blah » 22 Aug 2019 13:30

Sanguine It shows exactly the opposite. You state quite happily that you can see why they haven't overturned it, which means that the system is working well, and used only to overturn 'clear and obvious' errors. If you can see why they haven't, then by definition it can't be 'clear and obvious'.

Either wyay though, decisions will remain subjective. I sincerely have no idea why people can't understand the distinction between 'better decisions' and 'decisions that are never up for debate'.


I can see why they haven't, I just disagree with it and see it as an example of where VAR falls well short of what it's trying to do, ie correct obviously wrong errors.

If it isn't going to clear up that level of decision then there's even less point in having it. At some point this season they're going to overturn decisions that are just as unclear an error and we're going to be in the same position as we were last season with subjective decisions being made by humans and getting some wrong.

I know that falls into your 'better decisions' view, I just don't see it as worth the pain for the lack of improvement.

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 22 Aug 2019 13:39

That's the crux of it really, isn't it. I'm not really seeing or feeling any 'pain' from VAR. It's not visibly or audibly affecting the stadium experience, the Premier League's version of it is proving for the most part swift and decisive, and amongst the subjective stuff it is making correct decisions on marginal calls, mainly around offsides.

The main controversy arising through VAR isn't really about VAR at all, but the new handball law, and the same decision would be given where the on-field referee spotted such an infringement.

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 22 Aug 2019 14:06

genome
Sanguine Separately, I think over time fans will come to understand and accept more and more what VAR is for and when it will be used.

A slightly different idea I had that might help this is a VAR app that fans could download, and to which VAR decisions (I think I read it is broadly 11-12 reviews a game) can be uploaded in real time. Understanding the process behind the scenes and the reasoning behind decisions made would help fans get a grasp on what is occurring on the pitch.


I'd like to see something like Cricket where the decision making conversation is broadcast over the tannoy.


they do that at Old Trafford (and other grounds without a big screen)..

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 22 Aug 2019 14:10

Sanguine That's the crux of it really, isn't it. I'm not really seeing or feeling any 'pain' from VAR. It's not visibly or audibly affecting the stadium experience, the Premier League's version of it is proving for the most part swift and decisive, and amongst the subjective stuff it is making correct decisions on marginal calls, mainly around offsides.

The main controversy arising through VAR isn't really about VAR at all, but the new handball law, and the same decision would be given where the on-field referee spotted such an infringement.


If I watch a game live, I always have a quick check to see if the lino flagged before celebrating a goal

I'd now be inclined to wait and see it the ref goes to VAR before celebrating...#living_in_the_moment


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Re: VAR

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Aug 2019 16:58

Hoop Blah
Sanguine Clear and obvious to the officials - my point on this is consistent. It is respect for referees' decisions that is the problem here. Broadly speaking, you suggest you expect VAR, if it worked properly, to agree with all of your opinions, and that therefore because it can't, VAR isn't suitable for football. Which is bizarre.

For the hundredth time, VAR gives officials the opportunity to make better subjective decisions. That doesn't mean you'll always agree with them. But at the same time the technology will correct absolute howlers and/or stuff the on-pitch officials don't see. Which is a good thing.


If it's not agreeing with me, then it's clearly wrong. Surely that's obvious.

:lol:

You're always good value.

It's a distinction between "what would I give" and "was there a clear rationale for the decision originally made that isn't factually incorrect".

Or in other words a review of whether the decision was reasonable, not a 'blind' rerun of the making a decision on the incident.

I agree they haven't consistently got the balance right yet. And as the viewer we rarely know the rationale for the referee's judgement so it's hard to decide if VAR has done a proper job.

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Re: VAR

by genome » 23 Aug 2019 18:53

Sanguine That's the crux of it really, isn't it. I'm not really seeing or feeling any 'pain' from VAR. It's not visibly or audibly affecting the stadium experience, the Premier League's version of it is proving for the most part swift and decisive, and amongst the subjective stuff it is making correct decisions on marginal calls, mainly around offsides.


What's your criteria for "visibly and audibly affecting the stadium experience"?

Does it extend to Wolves fans chanting "oxf*rd VAR"?

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Re: VAR

by Danny Nedelko » 23 Aug 2019 21:32

Part of football has always been to moan and deal with decisions that may have been wrong, or right. I can deal with using goal line technology but VAR is sucking the joy out of scoring a goal, especially as we get more used to pausing celebrations awaiting a decision.
F**k VAR

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Re: VAR

by Wizard » 24 Aug 2019 05:54

VAR is the single worst idea in the history of football.


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Re: VAR

by The Enfield Royal71 » 24 Aug 2019 06:50

I don't think it is. It has just not been used correctly which is what I told the FA already in our meetings. There will be improvements made next season however which I can assure you will be better for everybody, it just takes time to implement the correct technology.

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Re: VAR

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Aug 2019 08:43

The Enfield Royal71 I don't think it is. It has just not been used correctly which is what I told the FA already in our meetings. There will be improvements made next season however which I can assure you will be better for everybody, it just takes time to implement the correct technology.

You know literally no one believes you and it's all a bit pathetic right?

I mean I know you're stupid enough to put your job and company's contract at risk by criticising the FA on a football forum and disclosing private confidential discussions, but really? Why keep the nonsense up? It doesn't impress anyone and it doesn't give you value.

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Re: VAR

by genome » 24 Aug 2019 14:15

VAR doing a decent job in Norwich vs Chelsea, overturning a goal for a clear foul on the Norwich keeper.

Chris Sutton is being a massive helmet about it though, disagreeing with clearly correct decisions...

Darren Fletcher is genuinely just ignoring him, it’s quite funny

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Re: VAR

by The Enfield Royal71 » 24 Aug 2019 14:28

genome VAR doing a decent job in Norwich vs Chelsea, overturning a goal for a clear foul on the Norwich keeper.

Chris Sutton is being a massive helmet about it though, disagreeing with clearly correct decisions...

Darren Fletcher is genuinely just ignoring him, it’s quite funny


Watching it on NBC-SN

They agreed with all decisions.

Sutton is just a helmet.

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Re: VAR

by The Enfield Royal71 » 24 Aug 2019 16:19

Snowflake Royal
The Enfield Royal71 I don't think it is. It has just not been used correctly which is what I told the FA already in our meetings. There will be improvements made next season however which I can assure you will be better for everybody, it just takes time to implement the correct technology.

You know literally no one believes you and it's all a bit pathetic right?

I mean I know you're stupid enough to put your job and company's contract at risk by criticising the FA on a football forum and disclosing private confidential discussions, but really? Why keep the nonsense up? It doesn't impress anyone and it doesn't give you value.


:roll:

Okay then mate

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Re: VAR

by Hendo » 25 Aug 2019 07:54

genome VAR doing a decent job in Norwich vs Chelsea, overturning a goal for a clear foul on the Norwich keeper.

Chris Sutton is being a massive helmet about it though, disagreeing with clearly correct decisions...

Darren Fletcher is genuinely just ignoring him, it’s quite funny


Just par for the course really :wink:

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Re: VAR

by Sutekh » 25 Aug 2019 09:03

Wizard VAR is the single worst idea in the history of football.


Plus about 1,000,000,000

Referees are there to referee so let them. They’ll get it wrong sometimes but so what, rather the fun of human error than the soulless stop start fussing about with a technology that half the time doesn’t really prove anything either way.

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