Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

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Sutekh
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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 17 Aug 2019 07:48

The Enfield Royal71 Tbf he sounds like an uttet helmet

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fi ... extinction



"....but as his ownership began mid-season, he didn't have to pass the ‘fit and proper person’ test..." :shock: :roll:

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 17 Aug 2019 07:50

Deadlock
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Sanguine On that point around the final fixtures, I wonder if the league would reschedule to ensure all teams played on the last day?


Not sure how you can ensure 23 teams all play at the same time?

You could always hope Bolton fold as well.



or Coventry - or perhaps both

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Hendo » 17 Aug 2019 08:52

Well they’re due to play Fleetwood on the last day of the season, who finished 11th last year. Maybe the football league will just hope/risk that the final game will have nothing riding on it.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 17 Aug 2019 13:18

Hendo Well they’re due to play Fleetwood on the last day of the season, who finished 11th last year. Maybe the football league will just hope/risk that the final game will have nothing riding on it.


Remember back in the day when it was fairly common for some clubs to finish their season while others around them still had games to play. Not to mention the FL’s decision back in 1987 to deliberately play the 2nd division with an odd number of clubs (remember Reading not playing on the opening day and starting their season at Leeds a week later).

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Deadlock » 17 Aug 2019 15:50

Sutekh
Deadlock
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Not sure how you can ensure 23 teams all play at the same time?

You could always hope Bolton fold as well.


or Coventry - or perhaps both

Both would be no good - you'd have an odd number again. Maybe we can throw MK Dons into the blender as well?


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Mid Sussex Royal » 17 Aug 2019 19:13

Sutekh
Hendo Well they’re due to play Fleetwood on the last day of the season, who finished 11th last year. Maybe the football league will just hope/risk that the final game will have nothing riding on it.


Remember back in the day when it was fairly common for some clubs to finish their season while others around them still had games to play. Not to mention the FL’s decision back in 1987 to deliberately play the 2nd division with an odd number of clubs (remember Reading not playing on the opening day and starting their season at Leeds a week later).


I believe we were relegated in 1971 losing at Villa which was after the last scheduled round of fixtures

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Who Moved The Goalposts? » 19 Aug 2019 16:51

Bolton's game against Doncaster called off because of fears the youth players are being pushed too hard. It's looking grim for them.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Victor Meldrew » 19 Aug 2019 16:59

Who Moved The Goalposts? Bolton's game against Doncaster called off because of fears the youth players are being pushed too hard. It's looking grim for them.


It feels a bit like bullying that the Bolton lads have to currently make up the first team and be just cannon fodder for the likes of Tranmere who put 5 past them on Saturday.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by WestYorksRoyal » 19 Aug 2019 17:23

BBC News - Bury FC: Part of our family for four generations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372359

This is a very sad article; shows the role of football clubs in communities and how in some relationships it's more than a game. Relegations are sad but ultimately a setback clubs can recover from, but surely with all the money in the game we can create safeguards to stop clubs going out of existence?

How about:

- x% of league TV revenue goes into central fund. X calculated by clever experts

- if clubs are unable to pay staff, police etc. they can access funds to restructure and rebuild

- Strict penalties for clubs who need it I.e. after season concludes, move down a division. So move down 2 divisions if also relegated

- If nobody needs to use funds, excess amounts distributed back across the League.

So in this context, Bury and Bolton would be fighting to compete in League 2 next year, as opposed to being non-league. As it's an intra-club arrangement, it would take effect ahead of insolvency law and administration, so no points deductions.

Is it that hard? Harsh penalties would be needed otherwise it gives clubs a safety net. But ultimately, it would keep clubs alive and allow them to bounce back from hard times.

Maybe if you wanted to add a level, governing bodies could appoint administrators to get clubs in order as a condition of accessing funds and suspend directors who get clubs into the mess.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by The Enfield Royal71 » 19 Aug 2019 18:25

All it would take is a few small easy funds diverted here and there to save them. Even sky or somebody could help out by a tv game or 1% of all t.v. revenue for a week to go toward paying the bury players.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Snowflake Royal » 19 Aug 2019 18:38

WestYorksRoyal BBC News - Bury FC: Part of our family for four generations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372359

This is a very sad article; shows the role of football clubs in communities and how in some relationships it's more than a game. Relegations are sad but ultimately a setback clubs can recover from, but surely with all the money in the game we can create safeguards to stop clubs going out of existence?

How about:

- x% of league TV revenue goes into central fund. X calculated by clever experts

- if clubs are unable to pay staff, police etc. they can access funds to restructure and rebuild

- Strict penalties for clubs who need it I.e. after season concludes, move down a division. So move down 2 divisions if also relegated

- If nobody needs to use funds, excess amounts distributed back across the League.

So in this context, Bury and Bolton would be fighting to compete in League 2 next year, as opposed to being non-league. As it's an intra-club arrangement, it would take effect ahead of insolvency law and administration, so no points deductions.

Is it that hard? Harsh penalties would be needed otherwise it gives clubs a safety net. But ultimately, it would keep clubs alive and allow them to bounce back from hard times.

Maybe if you wanted to add a level, governing bodies could appoint administrators to get clubs in order as a condition of accessing funds and suspend directors who get clubs into the mess.


1) All transfers have to go through an independent body, and payments are made via this third party - cuts out a lot of dodgy agent action and shenanigans.
2) All player wages are paid via a similar group, maybe the PFA
3) All wage budgets are capped at 85% of predicted income and total transfer spending is also capped in relation to income
4) PFA / Regulator / FL takes a small cut of each wage, plus a small annual league membership payment from clubs. This forms an emergency fund where things go wrong.
5) TV revenue is shared far more equally across the league structure, and to the various governing bodies to help reduce the gap between each league and therefore the financial pain of getting relegated and the need to spend massive amounts on promotion. The PL doesn't function nearly as well without the FL as with it.
6) When a club gets into financial trouble, the more equal sharing of TV revenue and the player and club surcharges allows the governing bodies to have built up a reservoir of cash to take on ownership of clubs in concert with fan ownership initiatives and then run the club sustainably in future with greater fan engagement
7) regular audits to check that clubs aren't building up debtors like Police, local suppliers, St John's Ambulance etc. Debt should be to recognised lenders like banks, shareholders etc.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Stranded » 19 Aug 2019 19:39

WestYorksRoyal BBC News - Bury FC: Part of our family for four generations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372359

This is a very sad article; shows the role of football clubs in communities and how in some relationships it's more than a game. Relegations are sad but ultimately a setback clubs can recover from, but surely with all the money in the game we can create safeguards to stop clubs going out of existence?

How about:

- x% of league TV revenue goes into central fund. X calculated by clever experts

- if clubs are unable to pay staff, police etc. they can access funds to restructure and rebuild

- Strict penalties for clubs who need it I.e. after season concludes, move down a division. So move down 2 divisions if also relegated

- If nobody needs to use funds, excess amounts distributed back across the League.

So in this context, Bury and Bolton would be fighting to compete in League 2 next year, as opposed to being non-league. As it's an intra-club arrangement, it would take effect ahead of insolvency law and administration, so no points deductions.

Is it that hard? Harsh penalties would be needed otherwise it gives clubs a safety net. But ultimately, it would keep clubs alive and allow them to bounce back from hard times.

Maybe if you wanted to add a level, governing bodies could appoint administrators to get clubs in order as a condition of accessing funds and suspend directors who get clubs into the mess.


Why would the National League want to accept a team relegated from L1 due to financial problems? What happens to the bottom clubs in L2, do they get reprieved?

As horrible as it is, if a club is badly run at some point it needs to go to the wall. Football clubs get much more leeway than any normal business, so to be where Bury and Bolton are they are totally fcuked. Horrible situation but giving an extra safety net will just give some owners more if an excuse to push things.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by stealthpapes » 19 Aug 2019 19:57

Snowflake Royal
WestYorksRoyal BBC News - Bury FC: Part of our family for four generations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372359

This is a very sad article; shows the role of football clubs in communities and how in some relationships it's more than a game. Relegations are sad but ultimately a setback clubs can recover from, but surely with all the money in the game we can create safeguards to stop clubs going out of existence?

How about:

- x% of league TV revenue goes into central fund. X calculated by clever experts

- if clubs are unable to pay staff, police etc. they can access funds to restructure and rebuild

- Strict penalties for clubs who need it I.e. after season concludes, move down a division. So move down 2 divisions if also relegated

- If nobody needs to use funds, excess amounts distributed back across the League.

So in this context, Bury and Bolton would be fighting to compete in League 2 next year, as opposed to being non-league. As it's an intra-club arrangement, it would take effect ahead of insolvency law and administration, so no points deductions.

Is it that hard? Harsh penalties would be needed otherwise it gives clubs a safety net. But ultimately, it would keep clubs alive and allow them to bounce back from hard times.

Maybe if you wanted to add a level, governing bodies could appoint administrators to get clubs in order as a condition of accessing funds and suspend directors who get clubs into the mess.


1) All transfers have to go through an independent body, and payments are made via this third party - cuts out a lot of dodgy agent action and shenanigans.
2) All player wages are paid via a similar group, maybe the PFA
3) All wage budgets are capped at 85% of predicted income and total transfer spending is also capped in relation to income
4) PFA / Regulator / FL takes a small cut of each wage, plus a small annual league membership payment from clubs. This forms an emergency fund where things go wrong.
5) TV revenue is shared far more equally across the league structure, and to the various governing bodies to help reduce the gap between each league and therefore the financial pain of getting relegated and the need to spend massive amounts on promotion. The PL doesn't function nearly as well without the FL as with it.
6) When a club gets into financial trouble, the more equal sharing of TV revenue and the player and club surcharges allows the governing bodies to have built up a reservoir of cash to take on ownership of clubs in concert with fan ownership initiatives and then run the club sustainably in future with greater fan engagement
7) regular audits to check that clubs aren't building up debtors like Police, local suppliers, St John's Ambulance etc. Debt should be to recognised lenders like banks, shareholders etc.




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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Snowflake Royal » 19 Aug 2019 21:45

stealthpapes
Snowflake Royal
WestYorksRoyal BBC News - Bury FC: Part of our family for four generations
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372359

This is a very sad article; shows the role of football clubs in communities and how in some relationships it's more than a game. Relegations are sad but ultimately a setback clubs can recover from, but surely with all the money in the game we can create safeguards to stop clubs going out of existence?

How about:

- x% of league TV revenue goes into central fund. X calculated by clever experts

- if clubs are unable to pay staff, police etc. they can access funds to restructure and rebuild

- Strict penalties for clubs who need it I.e. after season concludes, move down a division. So move down 2 divisions if also relegated

- If nobody needs to use funds, excess amounts distributed back across the League.

So in this context, Bury and Bolton would be fighting to compete in League 2 next year, as opposed to being non-league. As it's an intra-club arrangement, it would take effect ahead of insolvency law and administration, so no points deductions.

Is it that hard? Harsh penalties would be needed otherwise it gives clubs a safety net. But ultimately, it would keep clubs alive and allow them to bounce back from hard times.

Maybe if you wanted to add a level, governing bodies could appoint administrators to get clubs in order as a condition of accessing funds and suspend directors who get clubs into the mess.


1) All transfers have to go through an independent body, and payments are made via this third party - cuts out a lot of dodgy agent action and shenanigans.
2) All player wages are paid via a similar group, maybe the PFA
3) All wage budgets are capped at 85% of predicted income and total transfer spending is also capped in relation to income
4) PFA / Regulator / FL takes a small cut of each wage, plus a small annual league membership payment from clubs. This forms an emergency fund where things go wrong.
5) TV revenue is shared far more equally across the league structure, and to the various governing bodies to help reduce the gap between each league and therefore the financial pain of getting relegated and the need to spend massive amounts on promotion. The PL doesn't function nearly as well without the FL as with it.
6) When a club gets into financial trouble, the more equal sharing of TV revenue and the player and club surcharges allows the governing bodies to have built up a reservoir of cash to take on ownership of clubs in concert with fan ownership initiatives and then run the club sustainably in future with greater fan engagement
7) regular audits to check that clubs aren't building up debtors like Police, local suppliers, St John's Ambulance etc. Debt should be to recognised lenders like banks, shareholders etc.



Close. REGULATE all the things. Nationalise essential infrastructure.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by StellaPlease » 20 Aug 2019 18:45

Bury's game against Tranmere this weekend has now been postponed. Sheffield Wednesday have been granted the win in the league cup tie that was postponed last week.

They've clearly done wrong financially last year to get promoted, but the way their owner is acting is quite disgusting. He was on the radio this morning arguing with his own players about pay. He was telling everyone that he's paid them and the players were saying that he hadn't :lol:

He basically paid a quid for the club without the means to keep it going. He turned down another offer for it today and if it is t sorted by Friday, they will be removed from the league.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Uke » 20 Aug 2019 20:46

How much is the land/development rights worth?

It’s almost like he’s done the maths

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by The Enfield Royal71 » 20 Aug 2019 20:48

Never before in my lifetime can I remember a club being removed from a professional league. I remember teams like boston, Scarborough and rushden and diamonds but I'm sure they got relegated before to non-league.

Read some hilariously stupid fb comments about bolton saying how their 17 and 18 year olds should suck it up and play because messi and Ronaldo used to play aged 17 and 18 :roll:

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 21 Aug 2019 06:16

Aldershot in 92 would be the last time it happened on the league. But that was two thirds of the way through the season.

I seem to remember Newport County finishing a season using youth players to fulfil fixtures before folding but I've never seen a club starting the season with half a first team or being unable to fulfil fixtures from the start of the season.

I can't see either club surviving. The bloke at Bury is clearly manufacturing this situation and the time for a white knight to ride into Bolton was 5 years ago.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 21 Aug 2019 07:28

From Despair To Where? Aldershot in 92 would be the last time it happened on the league. But that was two thirds of the way through the season.

I seem to remember Newport County finishing a season using youth players to fulfil fixtures before folding but I've never seen a club starting the season with half a first team or being unable to fulfil fixtures from the start of the season.

I can't see either club surviving. The bloke at Bury is clearly manufacturing this situation and the time for a white knight to ride into Bolton was 5 years ago.


Think 92 also saw Maidstone go under just before the season started. Reading got a bye in the league cup as a result.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by The Enfield Royal71 » 21 Aug 2019 07:51

Sutekh
From Despair To Where? Aldershot in 92 would be the last time it happened on the league. But that was two thirds of the way through the season.

I seem to remember Newport County finishing a season using youth players to fulfil fixtures before folding but I've never seen a club starting the season with half a first team or being unable to fulfil fixtures from the start of the season.

I can't see either club surviving. The bloke at Bury is clearly manufacturing this situation and the time for a white knight to ride into Bolton was 5 years ago.


Think 92 also saw Maidstone go under just before the season started. Reading got a bye in the league cup as a result.


I was only 2 then so cannot remember back far then.

Shall we start a crowdfunding thing to help save bury and pay the players? It would only take a quid or 5 from people here and I guarentee it would blow up. We could say its from hobnob aswell so it gives this site and us all loads of publicity and we will be doing a good thing too. Im sure that Millions of people would donate too!

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