Rumour - Danny Loader

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Henley Royal 1 » 25 May 2019 22:25

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I agree with your point to an extent. But we're not talking about some average academy guy like McIntyre etc...we're talking about someone who has already represented his country at national level 42 times at the age of 18! So I don't think we do have the best of all worlds


Blimey m8 anyone would think we were talking about the new Michael Owen here.
Just to remind you, one goal in 14 appearances either as a striker or just off the striker.
Loads of caps playing kids' football is no guarantee that a player will make it in mens' football.

I sincerely hope that Danny does go on to be the next Michael Owen(preferably for Reading) but from what I have seen so far he is a long way from being the finished article and any club buying him (especially at the figures being banded about on here) would be taking a massive gamble.


He won’t be the next Michael Owen as they play in different positions.

You dont think he will do tv adverts for persil then.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Victor Meldrew » 26 May 2019 10:57

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I agree with your point to an extent. But we're not talking about some average academy guy like McIntyre etc...we're talking about someone who has already represented his country at national level 42 times at the age of 18! So I don't think we do have the best of all worlds


Blimey m8 anyone would think we were talking about the new Michael Owen here.
Just to remind you, one goal in 14 appearances either as a striker or just off the striker.
Loads of caps playing kids' football is no guarantee that a player will make it in mens' football.

I sincerely hope that Danny does go on to be the next Michael Owen(preferably for Reading) but from what I have seen so far he is a long way from being the finished article and any club buying him (especially at the figures being banded about on here) would be taking a massive gamble.


He won’t be the next Michael Owen as they play in different positions.


So, what is his position?
All I have seen in these senior games is a little boy lost and, according to other posters, playing out of position so needs to be excused.
Have scored 8 goals in 9 games for the U23s I thought he was a striker but do explain how he isn't.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Ranty McRantface » 26 May 2019 12:18

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Blimey m8 anyone would think we were talking about the new Michael Owen here.
Just to remind you, one goal in 14 appearances either as a striker or just off the striker.
Loads of caps playing kids' football is no guarantee that a player will make it in mens' football.

I sincerely hope that Danny does go on to be the next Michael Owen(preferably for Reading) but from what I have seen so far he is a long way from being the finished article and any club buying him (especially at the figures being banded about on here) would be taking a massive gamble.


He won’t be the next Michael Owen as they play in different positions.


So, what is his position?
All I have seen in these senior games is a little boy lost and, according to other posters, playing out of position so needs to be excused.
Have scored 8 goals in 9 games for the U23s I thought he was a striker but do explain how he isn't.


Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Nameless » 26 May 2019 14:12

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He won’t be the next Michael Owen as they play in different positions.


So, what is his position?
All I have seen in these senior games is a little boy lost and, according to other posters, playing out of position so needs to be excused.
Have scored 8 goals in 9 games for the U23s I thought he was a striker but do explain how he isn't.


Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.


Certainly for the U23 he plays quite deep and I would say his goal against Boro was the sort of goal he scores quite often. He also gets goals arriving late in the box. He certainly isn't an Owen/ Lineker/Cureton/ ALF type player who plays in and around the 6 yard box.
Whether you would class him as a forward or an attacking midfielder is probably the question, I'd say he is fairy comparable to Gylfi nut comparing him to Owen is pointless in the same way comparing him to Kane would be pointless.
He's worked his way well into the first team despite people putting daft pressure on him by assuming he is something that he is not. He'll get plenty of goals in the first team and he's contributed pretty well so far considering he's basically still a schoolboy. Luckily not everything looks for instant results.....

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Ranty McRantface » 26 May 2019 14:29

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So, what is his position?
All I have seen in these senior games is a little boy lost and, according to other posters, playing out of position so needs to be excused.
Have scored 8 goals in 9 games for the U23s I thought he was a striker but do explain how he isn't.


Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.


Certainly for the U23 he plays quite deep and I would say his goal against Boro was the sort of goal he scores quite often. He also gets goals arriving late in the box. He certainly isn't an Owen/ Lineker/Cureton/ ALF type player who plays in and around the 6 yard box.
Whether you would class him as a forward or an attacking midfielder is probably the question, I'd say he is fairy comparable to Gylfi nut comparing him to Owen is pointless in the same way comparing him to Kane would be pointless.
He's worked his way well into the first team despite people putting daft pressure on him by assuming he is something that he is not. He'll get plenty of goals in the first team and he's contributed pretty well so far considering he's basically still a schoolboy. Luckily not everything looks for instant results.....


If I were to draw a comparison I would say he's more of a new category and very close to how Joao Felix of Benfica plays. He naturally transitions between a 9 and 10 during the game but is more instinctively a striker. There aren't many if any players I've seen in my life time, until recently, who play that role. Perhaps it's a new generation of player we are seeing. But just to be clear I am not drawing comparisons of Loader's talent to Felix's as the latter I believe will be in a league of his own in the next few years.


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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Victor Meldrew » 26 May 2019 18:10

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Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.


Certainly for the U23 he plays quite deep and I would say his goal against Boro was the sort of goal he scores quite often. He also gets goals arriving late in the box. He certainly isn't an Owen/ Lineker/Cureton/ ALF type player who plays in and around the 6 yard box.
Whether you would class him as a forward or an attacking midfielder is probably the question, I'd say he is fairy comparable to Gylfi nut comparing him to Owen is pointless in the same way comparing him to Kane would be pointless.
He's worked his way well into the first team despite people putting daft pressure on him by assuming he is something that he is not. He'll get plenty of goals in the first team and he's contributed pretty well so far considering he's basically still a schoolboy. Luckily not everything looks for instant results.....


If I were to draw a comparison I would say he's more of a new category and very close to how Joao Felix of Benfica plays. He naturally transitions between a 9 and 10 during the game but is more instinctively a striker. There aren't many if any players I've seen in my life time, until recently, who play that role. Perhaps it's a new generation of player we are seeing. But just to be clear I am not drawing comparisons of Loader's talent to Felix's as the latter I believe will be in a league of his own in the next few years.


Thanks for the inputs from both of you as I can only judge the player from what I have seen in these first team games-I assumed that he is an out and out striker.
I didn't see enough clever passing to think of him as a link or no. 10 player,nor did I see the quick reactions in and around the box that go with being a natural goalscorer.

As others said before the 'Boro goal it looks as though he needs to spend more time playing, probably at Div 1 level.
Since that goal and rumours of interest from elsewhere and supposedly not signing a contract extension has taken his standing on here to another level.

My view is that he has not shown enough (yet) on the pitch to justify the crazy potential transfer fees put up by other posters.
If he doesn't see his future with us, and taking into account what we have been told about the club's finances, I can see him being sold for not that much but , importantly, with loads of add-ons in case he does turn out to be the new.....Danny Loader.

Ideally he would stay and develop with us and help us improve as a team but that seems less likely as he is apparently one of the few commodities that would bring in the required funds to keep our club afloat.
'

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Nameless » 26 May 2019 18:57

Really don’t think selling for a low fee plus add ons makes sense. Clubs know he has huge potential and we need to make sure we maximise our take. Good young English players are very valuable so as long as there’s is competition we will be strongly placed to get a good price. Low initial price and possible long term add ons doesn’t do much for us soI would aim for maximumup front (andplenty ofadd ons.). Given the potential value if he develops to potential a £8-10 million up front with significant % on sell on plus add ons for appearances, caps, trophies is not unrealistic (obviously if he goes to Spurs or Arsenalwe wouldn’t expect trophy bonuses....)

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by CountryRoyal » 26 May 2019 19:40

Nameless Really don’t think selling for a low fee plus add ons makes sense. Clubs know he has huge potential and we need to make sure we maximise our take. Good young English players are very valuable so as long as there’s is competition we will be strongly placed to get a good price. Low initial price and possible long term add ons doesn’t do much for us soI would aim for maximumup front (andplenty ofadd ons.). Given the potential value if he develops to potential a £8-10 million up front with significant % on sell on plus add ons for appearances, caps, trophies is not unrealistic (obviously if he goes to Spurs or Arsenalwe wouldn’t expect trophy bonuses....)


Sure.

And then whoever wants him can just say nah ta, we'll see how he develops and get him on a free next year.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Zip » 26 May 2019 19:43

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Nameless Really don’t think selling for a low fee plus add ons makes sense. Clubs know he has huge potential and we need to make sure we maximise our take. Good young English players are very valuable so as long as there’s is competition we will be strongly placed to get a good price. Low initial price and possible long term add ons doesn’t do much for us soI would aim for maximumup front (andplenty ofadd ons.). Given the potential value if he develops to potential a £8-10 million up front with significant % on sell on plus add ons for appearances, caps, trophies is not unrealistic (obviously if he goes to Spurs or Arsenalwe wouldn’t expect trophy bonuses....)


Sure.

And then whoever wants him can just say nah ta, we'll see how he develops and get him on a free next year.


We would though receive compensation if Loader left on a free.


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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Hound » 26 May 2019 19:59

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Nameless Really don’t think selling for a low fee plus add ons makes sense. Clubs know he has huge potential and we need to make sure we maximise our take. Good young English players are very valuable so as long as there’s is competition we will be strongly placed to get a good price. Low initial price and possible long term add ons doesn’t do much for us soI would aim for maximumup front (andplenty ofadd ons.). Given the potential value if he develops to potential a £8-10 million up front with significant % on sell on plus add ons for appearances, caps, trophies is not unrealistic (obviously if he goes to Spurs or Arsenalwe wouldn’t expect trophy bonuses....)


Sure.

And then whoever wants him can just say nah ta, we'll see how he develops and get him on a free next year.


Whilst someone else comes in and takes him

5-6m is nothing to these prem clubs. If there genuinely are a number of clubs who want to take him then they won’t wait til next year

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Nameless » 26 May 2019 21:22

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Nameless Really don’t think selling for a low fee plus add ons makes sense. Clubs know he has huge potential and we need to make sure we maximise our take. Good young English players are very valuable so as long as there’s is competition we will be strongly placed to get a good price. Low initial price and possible long term add ons doesn’t do much for us soI would aim for maximumup front (andplenty ofadd ons.). Given the potential value if he develops to potential a £8-10 million up front with significant % on sell on plus add ons for appearances, caps, trophies is not unrealistic (obviously if he goes to Spurs or Arsenalwe wouldn’t expect trophy bonuses....)


Sure.

And then whoever wants him can just say nah ta, we'll see how he develops and get him on a free next year.


Except
1. Players under 24 don’t move for free
2. There are multiple clubs interested. So if one club decides they’ll wait that leaves several others still competing. Unless, as I previously said, an off the table deal is done which stitches us up. Which is risky given the authorities are alert to this illegal practice.....

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Jack Celliers » 26 May 2019 21:34

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He won’t be the next Michael Owen as they play in different positions.


So, what is his position?
All I have seen in these senior games is a little boy lost and, according to other posters, playing out of position so needs to be excused.
Have scored 8 goals in 9 games for the U23s I thought he was a striker but do explain how he isn't.


Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.


Aren't you just over-complicating things a bit here? If Loader was a bit better, a lot faster, and scored more goals, we would be comparing him with Michael Owen. If Hudson-Odoi was a little less lightweight and scored a few more goals we would be comparing him with Shearer. If Foden actually got to play a few more games we might compare him to Scholes. It's not unexpected for young players to be unable to have an impact on a game, but isn't this due to them being not being very good yet, rather some kind of positional orthodoxy.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Ranty McRantface » 26 May 2019 23:48

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So, what is his position?
All I have seen in these senior games is a little boy lost and, according to other posters, playing out of position so needs to be excused.
Have scored 8 goals in 9 games for the U23s I thought he was a striker but do explain how he isn't.


Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.


Aren't you just over-complicating things a bit here? If Loader was a bit better, a lot faster, and scored more goals, we would be comparing him with Michael Owen. If Hudson-Odoi was a little less lightweight and scored a few more goals we would be comparing him with Shearer. If Foden actually got to play a few more games we might compare him to Scholes. It's not unexpected for young players to be unable to have an impact on a game, but isn't this due to them being not being very good yet, rather some kind of positional orthodoxy.


Not at all. I don't think you quite get it. If Loader was scoring more goals and a bit faster I would still be looking at him based on his position. He would just be filling his potential. Would you compare Rinomhota and Mark Mateovsky? Would you compare Loader with Gregorz Rasiak? HELL NO.

I get Loader and Owen are both strikers but as a players attributes, style and position comparing Owen and Loader is not the best choice.


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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Denver Royal » 27 May 2019 02:48

He clearly has some talent. From what I’ve seen of him, albeit in a limited timeframe, I can understand why some might question his ‘position’. Not sure why that would be controversial. As a ‘tweener’, eIther at this club, or others.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Wallsy » 27 May 2019 04:21

Nameless Really don’t think selling for a low fee plus add ons makes sense. Clubs know he has huge potential and we need to make sure we maximise our take. Good young English players are very valuable so as long as there’s is competition we will be strongly placed to get a good price. Low initial price and possible long term add ons doesn’t do much for us soI would aim for maximumup front (andplenty ofadd ons.). Given the potential value if he develops to potential a £8-10 million up front with significant % on sell on plus add ons for appearances, caps, trophies is not unrealistic (obviously if he goes to Spurs or Arsenalwe wouldn’t expect trophy bonuses....)


It is a bit unrealistic mate. He’s a free transfer in a year and we only get a nominal fee for him then.

IMO we might be able to get £5m tops, and I agree we shouldn’t be accepting the bulk of any deal “with add-ons”. We need the money up front NOW.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Jack Celliers » 27 May 2019 11:23

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Sorry to jump in but this is painful to read. Victor you are right he is a striker but that is very lazy just assume all strikers are the same or any other position has the same type. No one would compare Scholes to Foden for example as they are different midfielders. No one would compare Hudson-Odio to Shearer as they different types of striker. And like others as saying you would not compare Loader to Owen as they are different types of striker.


Aren't you just over-complicating things a bit here? If Loader was a bit better, a lot faster, and scored more goals, we would be comparing him with Michael Owen. If Hudson-Odoi was a little less lightweight and scored a few more goals we would be comparing him with Shearer. If Foden actually got to play a few more games we might compare him to Scholes. It's not unexpected for young players to be unable to have an impact on a game, but isn't this due to them being not being very good yet, rather some kind of positional orthodoxy.


Not at all. I don't think you quite get it. If Loader was scoring more goals and a bit faster I would still be looking at him based on his position. He would just be filling his potential. Would you compare Rinomhota and Mark Mateovsky? Would you compare Loader with Gregorz Rasiak? HELL NO.

I get Loader and Owen are both strikers but as a players attributes, style and position comparing Owen and Loader is not the best choice.


What you are implying is that there is a possibility of picking Loader instead of Owen, because Loader plays in a different position. That's not right. Owen and Loader have different strengths and weaknesses, but occupy the same slot in a team line-up: a manager would choose between them .

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Snowflake Royal » 27 May 2019 12:04

Not necessarily.

Owen played in behind, hanging around on the defender's shoulder to use his pace.

Loader plays (so far in the first team at least) in behind the main striker in pockets of space between the opposition midfield and defence.

He's competing more with Swift than Bodvarsson as of the end of this season.

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by PistolPete » 27 May 2019 12:21

Ranty, would you compare him to the ‘Raumdeuter’?

https://www.esdfanalysis.com/player-ana ... uter-role/

For me, Loader seems to be more like a Richarlyson or a Diogo Jota?

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by SCIAG » 27 May 2019 13:11

I wouldn't say Loader is a raumdeuter. For one thing his movement isn't very effective, particularly in the box - he doesn't have the same knack for being in the right place for a tap-in that Mueller/Dele/Callejon do. He's also much more graceful and good at retaining possession. Raumdeuters are all about end product, and Loader so far hasn't had very much of that.

In the first team I think Loader has lately been used mostly as a false nine. That was particularly apparent against Birmingham. He drops off a lot to create a vacuum for the wide players (usually Meite and Barrow) to exploit.

Earlier in the season, and usually in the U23s, he was played as most like a "true ten". He's a secondary striker who enjoys a dribble and arrives late to support the main striker. Jamie Lambert?

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Re: Rumour - Danny Loader

by Victor Meldrew » 27 May 2019 13:23

As ever these topics move sideways , quite rightly, as further debate ensues and generally, apart from Ian, in a friendly manner such as discussions with mates but at arms length.
I mentioned Michael Owen as a young footballer much talked about before making Liverpool's first team, having scored goals galore at junior levels and always looking destined for the top ,hich of course happened.

It was mentioned as I felt that people were getting carried away with what Danny had done stepping up to the first team having scored regularly (like Owen) in junior football-the difference as I see it is that 1 goal in 14 games at Championship level is hardly proof that he will become a prolific goalscorer and therefore the term "the next Michael Owen" was in relation to his potential scoring ability rather than a critique of the two players' style of play.

Some club may pay the £10 million that has been mooted-I remain of the opinion that anything above £1 million with plenty of add-ons represents a good deal for the club when we are in the parlous financial position that we are-if he goes on to be a success the club benefits but if he doesn't then at least the club has some return on its own investment.

If the club hadn't been so badly mismanaged we would not be having this discussion-Danny would either be deemed ready and an asset for next season or he would be loaned out to a Div 1 club.

The coming weeks will show us how parlous the financial position is-if only the mad man had been braver (or more foolish) the first time we were in the Premier League when it was known that the big money was just around the corner, we might now be Premier League regulars like Watford and Bournemouth surviving on the massive income stream that is now received from Sky money.

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