Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

229 posts
Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19579
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Stranded » 01 Sep 2021 11:07

Donny Ironside I was about to say about emergency loan players but reading that it seems only Goalkeepers are allowed for that criteria.

I find it extremely ridiculous that a player could play 5 EFL Trophy nothing games and be "established".


Yeah agree but there is a clause about Championship standard competition. So I would imagine that if our academy were in the competition those games may not count but they would towards a total of a player on loan (or vice versa).

Anyway, players under contract to Reading who are both over 21 and have had at least 5 starts are:

Holmes
Morrison
McIntyre
Moore
Halilovic
Rinomhota
Swift
Meite
Ejaria
Joao
Araruna
Rahman
Hoilett
Laurent
Rafael
Puscas
Dann
Drinkwater
Dele-Bashiru
McNulty
Southwood

So 21 - as all others were under 21 at the end of June. Azeez and Bristow have both made more than 5 apps though, so that could be the bone of contention but will still leave us 1 spot.

So it "feels" like we were working to use up all 24 spots for established players and the striker was the last piece, as was taking longer to sort out than the others but the EFL made it clear they wouldn't sanction it, so we are back to being in discussion with them.

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Zip » 01 Sep 2021 11:16

Stranded
Donny Ironside I was about to say about emergency loan players but reading that it seems only Goalkeepers are allowed for that criteria.

I find it extremely ridiculous that a player could play 5 EFL Trophy nothing games and be "established".


Yeah agree but there is a clause about Championship standard competition. So I would imagine that if our academy were in the competition those games may not count but they would towards a total of a player on loan (or vice versa).

Anyway, players under contract to Reading who are both over 21 and have had at least 5 starts are:

Holmes
Morrison
McIntyre
Moore
Halilovic
Rinomhota
Swift
Meite
Ejaria
Joao
Araruna
Rahman
Hoilett
Laurent
Rafael
Puscas
Dann
Drinkwater
Dele-Bashiru
McNulty
Southwood

So 21 - as all others were under 21 at the end of June. Azeez and Bristow have both made more than 5 apps though, so that could be the bone of contention but will still leave us 1 spot.

So it "feels" like we were working to use up all 24 spots for established players and the striker was the last piece, as was taking longer to sort out than the others but the EFL made it clear they wouldn't sanction it, so we are back to being in discussion with them.


Plus Yiadom

Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24934
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Hound » 01 Sep 2021 11:22

Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19579
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Stranded » 01 Sep 2021 11:24

Zip
Plus Yiadom


Thanks. Knew I'd miss someone but yes, so that makes 22 or 24 if the EFL are choosing to include Brisow and Azeez as counting despite both being u21 at the cut off point.

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19579
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Stranded » 01 Sep 2021 11:26

Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39387
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Sep 2021 12:03

Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

Well we've got no one new off the wage bill and signed 6, so I've no reason to think January would be any different.

We need to sell. Still.

Coppells Lost Coat
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1031
Joined: 28 Sep 2017 15:44

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Coppells Lost Coat » 01 Sep 2021 12:48

They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

Linden Jones' Tash
Member
Posts: 485
Joined: 20 Jun 2009 12:03
Location: north of the river...

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Linden Jones' Tash » 01 Sep 2021 13:10

Stranded
Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


in terms of revenue recognition, would things like the Stadium naming rights and new SCL 5 year deal change that equation at all - or is it all peanuts compared to the wage bill we will still be bearing?

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19579
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Stranded » 01 Sep 2021 13:19

Linden Jones' Tash
Stranded
Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


in terms of revenue recognition, would things like the Stadium naming rights and new SCL 5 year deal change that equation at all - or is it all peanuts compared to the wage bill we will still be bearing?


No idea, we'll only know how much they are worth when the accounts get published. Worth noting that the P&S calcs will have buffers/calculations added to them which will take into account the fact that there were no crowds last year and clubs lost money due to the pandemic. I have no idea what that may but for example a 20m FFP loss for last season may be considered the same as a 15m loss in normal seasons*.

*numbers pulled out of my arse.


blythspartan
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2237
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 20:50

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by blythspartan » 01 Sep 2021 13:24

Stranded
Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


So are you saying we could be deducted 9 points and still remain under a transfer embargo? Not sure why but I thought that once you had taken a points deduction the slate was wiped clean.

I am not sure how our situation compares with Sheffield Wednesday but I know they had a points deduction and now they’re allowed to sign players.

3points
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2452
Joined: 27 Oct 2013 17:22

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by 3points » 01 Sep 2021 13:24

Coppells Lost Coat They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19579
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Stranded » 01 Sep 2021 14:12

blythspartan
Stranded
Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


So are you saying we could be deducted 9 points and still remain under a transfer embargo? Not sure why but I thought that once you had taken a points deduction the slate was wiped clean.

I am not sure how our situation compares with Sheffield Wednesday but I know they had a points deduction and now they’re allowed to sign players.


I believe that it is possible, though unlikely, hence the embargo now.

Stranded
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 19579
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 12:42
Location: Propping up the bar in the Nags

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Stranded » 01 Sep 2021 14:14

3points
Coppells Lost Coat They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)


We need to remember that headline losses are not P&S losses and there is also additional calculations to be taken into account due to the pandemic which will lessen the P&S losses further.

EDIT: Players out on loan are definitely included in your squad calculation - if we were able, we would have been better served cancelling his contract but by loaning him his wages are removed from our budget (or at least offset by income from the loaning club) - assuming we aren't covering all his wages of course.
Last edited by Stranded on 01 Sep 2021 14:24, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Zip » 01 Sep 2021 14:16

Stranded
3points
Coppells Lost Coat They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)


We need to remember that headline losses are not P&S losses and there is also additional calculations to be taken into account due to the pandemic which will lessen the P&S losses further.


At this rate we will be making huge profits.

User avatar
Chairman Mao
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 16489
Joined: 21 Apr 2021 22:19

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Chairman Mao » 01 Sep 2021 14:21

Linden Jones' Tash
Stranded
Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


in terms of revenue recognition, would things like the Stadium naming rights and new SCL 5 year deal change that equation at all - or is it all peanuts compared to the wage bill we will still be bearing?


not sure half a million quid or whatever it is is really going to cut it enough

3points
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2452
Joined: 27 Oct 2013 17:22

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by 3points » 01 Sep 2021 14:36

Stranded
3points
Coppells Lost Coat They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)


We need to remember that headline losses are not P&S losses and there is also additional calculations to be taken into account due to the pandemic which will lessen the P&S losses further.

EDIT: Players out on loan are definitely included in your squad calculation - if we were able, we would have been better served cancelling his contract but by loaning him his wages are removed from our budget (or at least offset by income from the loaning club) - assuming we aren't covering all his wages of course.

this is true but the costs of the academy, Bearwood development, etc will not fundamentally change a wage to revenue ratio of >200%. Net cost of a Cat 1 academy is about £3m per year (which is deducted for P&S)

Tilehurstsouthbank
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1373
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 14:13
Location: Flying the Blue and White flag in Farnham

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 01 Sep 2021 14:42

Simmops
Tilehurstsouthbank
Simmops What?


Sorry have I lost you somewhere? I didn't think I was speaking Swahili but I can dumb things down a bit if you like?
Basically you asked who I was. I have been posting on HNA for over a decade. Last season I barely logged in tbh, but I'm fairly regular otherwise. We've had discussions before. That's how I know what an enigma you are.


I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.


Seriously we have interacted before, usually pretty cordial. Do you give someone else access to your account? Maybe they were the one I interacted with if so.

Simmops
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 14669
Joined: 04 Sep 2019 09:39

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Simmops » 01 Sep 2021 14:51

Tilehurstsouthbank
Simmops
Tilehurstsouthbank
Sorry have I lost you somewhere? I didn't think I was speaking Swahili but I can dumb things down a bit if you like?
Basically you asked who I was. I have been posting on HNA for over a decade. Last season I barely logged in tbh, but I'm fairly regular otherwise. We've had discussions before. That's how I know what an enigma you are.


I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.


Seriously we have interacted before, usually pretty cordial. Do you give someone else access to your account? Maybe they were the one I interacted with if so.


:shock:

Tilehurstsouthbank
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1373
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 14:13
Location: Flying the Blue and White flag in Farnham

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 01 Sep 2021 14:57

Simmops
Tilehurstsouthbank
Simmops
I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.


Seriously we have interacted before, usually pretty cordial. Do you give someone else access to your account? Maybe they were the one I interacted with if so.


:shock:


Last I'll say. You've either got amnesia or are the worst Wum ever.

Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24934
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

by Hound » 01 Sep 2021 15:15

Stranded
Hound Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you


If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.


The embargo in itself definitely won’t stop us breaking the 39m over 3 year loss limit or get anywhere close I doubt

I’m assuming we’re in embargo instead of a points deduction and if we play nicely then we won’t get fined the points

Do we stay like this until our seasons losses are under control or until we don’t break 39m over 3 years? Be interesting to know but could well be in this embargo for the long term

229 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 130 guests

It is currently 28 Mar 2024 10:36