Points Deduction AGAIN

[Snowflake Royal]

Morrison has played 36 games this season.

Dann 8, mostly as a sub.

Good decision by the club there. Could have just not bothered with one of Sarr or Hutchinson.

In a division below and he moved from an underachieving club in Portsmouth, to a team who are bang in a relegation fight in L1.

That's not a defence of Dann, but not sure players who are fighting at the wrong end of L1 and not particularly impressing are players we should have been looking to retain.

We took Hutchinson, hardly very different.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Morrison has played 36 games this season.

Dann 8, mostly as a sub.

Good decision by the club there. Could have just not bothered with one of Sarr or Hutchinson.

In a division below and he moved from an underachieving club in Portsmouth, to a team who are bang in a relegation fight in L1.

That's not a defence of Dann, but not sure players who are fighting at the wrong end of L1 and not particularly impressing are players we should have been looking to retain.

We took Hutchinson, hardly very different.

At least he was fighting at the right end of L1. Given the trajectory Morrison has taken since he's left, I can't say he's someone I'm missing personally.

[Snowflake Royal]

In a division below and he moved from an underachieving club in Portsmouth, to a team who are bang in a relegation fight in L1.

That's not a defence of Dann, but not sure players who are fighting at the wrong end of L1 and not particularly impressing are players we should have been looking to retain.

We took Hutchinson, hardly very different.

At least he was fighting at the right end of L1. Given the trajectory Morrison has taken since he's left, I can't say he's someone I'm missing personally.

And at the time Morrison was in a higher division.

Funnily enough,I reckon a fit player can contribute more than someone always injured.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

We took Hutchinson, hardly very different.

At least he was fighting at the right end of L1. Given the trajectory Morrison has taken since he's left, I can't say he's someone I'm missing personally.

And at the time Morrison was in a higher division.

Funnily enough,I reckon a fit player can contribute more than someone always injured.

Between Holmes, Mbengue, Yiadom, Sarr and McIntyre, we've got enough at CB that I'd have in front of Morrison who are no long-term sicknotes whereas both Dann and Moore have been.

[elrey]

The problem is absolutely the PL dominated by the super rich big 6 and the terror of relegation and not returning from the rest.

The creation of the PL has been a disaster for the integrity of the pyramid.

The thing is, money has gone into the system. Reading need to take a look at how much they can spend in order to stay as a profitable business. A lot of clubs decided to overspend, and this is what causes the problems.

You could spend a little, and HOPE to recoup that by getting into the Premier League, but really you get there, you have to spend loads to try and stay there.

It's about being a sensible business, which we just haven't been post Mr Mad.

Because the entire system stacks the deck so that unless you spend ridiculously you have little chance of success

Well, Reading has always been a 4th to 2nd division club. Going up to the Premier League could be:

A) We need to compete and spend big money or...
B) We know we're not going to be there very long, let's have a long term plan, don't spend too much, come back down and build on that success.

The first time we did the latter. We spent £3 million quid on three players, Bikey, Sodje and Seol. Then we did well. The next season we bought Cisse and Fae for £3.5 million and went down.

We finished 4th, 9th and 5th the next three seasons.

You don't need to spend loads of money, because you have to have a BUSINESS goal going, not just a goal of outright winning all the time.

[elrey]

we should have the draft system they have in the MLS. That would sort it.

No, that's an awful idea.

The MLS isn't exactly a league that's even that popular in its own country.

Ownership by the fans and community is the way forwards. Look at Germany. They've got it right, for the most part, except Bayern and Red Bull.

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

[Snowflake Royal]

The thing is, money has gone into the system. Reading need to take a look at how much they can spend in order to stay as a profitable business. A lot of clubs decided to overspend, and this is what causes the problems.

You could spend a little, and HOPE to recoup that by getting into the Premier League, but really you get there, you have to spend loads to try and stay there.

It's about being a sensible business, which we just haven't been post Mr Mad.

Because the entire system stacks the deck so that unless you spend ridiculously you have little chance of success

Well, Reading has always been a 4th to 2nd division club. Going up to the Premier League could be:

A) We need to compete and spend big money or...
B) We know we're not going to be there very long, let's have a long term plan, don't spend too much, come back down and build on that success.

The first time we did the latter. We spent £3 million quid on three players, Bikey, Sodje and Seol. Then we did well. The next season we bought Cisse and Fae for £3.5 million and went down.

We finished 4th, 9th and 5th the next three seasons.

You don't need to spend loads of money, because you have to have a BUSINESS goal going, not just a goal of outright winning all the time.

Yes, although it's harder now. And you forgot a player or so... Halford and Duberry for example. Rosenior (albeit exchange).

And wages are the bigger part of picture. I believe that first season our wages went from about £14m to about £35m. And we only narrowly turned profits, that went some way to paying off the £2m odd we lost every season for the previous 5 odd years. And despite spending relatively little, we still had to sell a player a year for big money once relegated to stay roughly break even.

The sooner football introduces wahe budget caps the better. Teams chase success and PL riches only to have to spend vastly more than they get to stay there.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

No, that's an awful idea.

The MLS isn't exactly a league that's even that popular in its own country.

Ownership by the fans and community is the way forwards. Look at Germany. They've got it right, for the most part, except Bayern and Red Bull.

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

By comparison, no, not to us because we aren't at the top of the tree. But losing money from the top clubs only filters down the divisions and makes it harder for us ultimately in the lower leagues.

I agree though, some leagues have things better than what we do, I just think it's a pretty significant step backwards for the country if we were to go down that route.

[Snowflake Royal]

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

By comparison, no, not to us because we aren't at the top of the tree. But losing money from the top clubs only filters down the divisions and makes it harder for us ultimately in the lower leagues.

I agree though, some leagues have things better than what we do, I just think it's a pretty significant step backwards for the country if we were to go down that route.

Ahhh the Tory trickle down economics falacy applied to football.

It. Doesn’t. Work.

[Stranded]

No, that's an awful idea.

The MLS isn't exactly a league that's even that popular in its own country.

Ownership by the fans and community is the way forwards. Look at Germany. They've got it right, for the most part, except Bayern and Red Bull.

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

Yeah that's something I'd want in our game and we are probably one of the best clubs to try and create that because we are a one club town, we aren't like a London club where there are multiple clubs in one city.

Unfortunately, whilst there has been such a disconnect between the club and our fans for a number of years now, it seems like we are further away than ever before. Ultimately, results on the pitch (and now off the pitch) would change the mood, but it's certainly something I'd want us to try and achieve.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Did Ince give any update after the game last night?

[Hound]

[url][/url]

Did Ince give any update after the game last night?

Just that there was no more news on it

[Snowflake Royal]

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

Preach!

[Winston Biscuit]

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

i've said for ages football clubs here should be doing so much more to be an active part of their communities. That is very impressive though from EF

[tmesis]

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

i've said for ages football clubs here should be doing so much more to be an active part of their communities. That is very impressive though from EF

Newcastle tried to do something a bit similar a few years back, and it was unpopular. The fans got annoyed because, among other things, they felt the money they were paying was being used to subsidise sports they had no interest in.

[Chairman Mao]

Because the entire system stacks the deck so that unless you spend ridiculously you have little chance of success

Well, Reading has always been a 4th to 2nd division club. Going up to the Premier League could be:

A) We need to compete and spend big money or...
B) We know we're not going to be there very long, let's have a long term plan, don't spend too much, come back down and build on that success.

The first time we did the latter. We spent £3 million quid on three players, Bikey, Sodje and Seol. Then we did well. The next season we bought Cisse and Fae for £3.5 million and went down.

We finished 4th, 9th and 5th the next three seasons.

You don't need to spend loads of money, because you have to have a BUSINESS goal going, not just a goal of outright winning all the time.

Yes, although it's harder now. And you forgot a player or so... Halford and Duberry for example. Rosenior (albeit exchange).

And wages are the bigger part of picture. I believe that first season our wages went from about £14m to about £35m. And we only narrowly turned profits, that went some way to paying off the £2m odd we lost every season for the previous 5 odd years. And despite spending relatively little, we still had to sell a player a year for big money once relegated to stay roughly break even.

The sooner football introduces wahe budget caps the better. Teams chase success and PL riches only to have to spend vastly more than they get to stay there.

it was a ~5 million loss every year that madejski absorbed

[Chairman Mao]

But if you take Bayern and RB Leipzig out, the rest of the league is pretty poor in quality in respect to the rest of the big leagues. The amount of money in the English game, it would take a very bold (possibly even silly) move to step into that territory. Not to mention that there are a number of German clubs that still aren't run that well either.

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

what a massive waste of time/money/effort
oxf*rd all of that shite

[Snowflake Royal]

Well, Reading has always been a 4th to 2nd division club. Going up to the Premier League could be:

A) We need to compete and spend big money or...
B) We know we're not going to be there very long, let's have a long term plan, don't spend too much, come back down and build on that success.

The first time we did the latter. We spent £3 million quid on three players, Bikey, Sodje and Seol. Then we did well. The next season we bought Cisse and Fae for £3.5 million and went down.

We finished 4th, 9th and 5th the next three seasons.

You don't need to spend loads of money, because you have to have a BUSINESS goal going, not just a goal of outright winning all the time.

Yes, although it's harder now. And you forgot a player or so... Halford and Duberry for example. Rosenior (albeit exchange).

And wages are the bigger part of picture. I believe that first season our wages went from about £14m to about £35m. And we only narrowly turned profits, that went some way to paying off the £2m odd we lost every season for the previous 5 odd years. And despite spending relatively little, we still had to sell a player a year for big money once relegated to stay roughly break even.

The sooner football introduces wahe budget caps the better. Teams chase success and PL riches only to have to spend vastly more than they get to stay there.

it was a ~5 million loss every year that madejski absorbed

Couldn’t remember so lowballed
Thanks.

[leon]

Maybe. Does it matter if it's "pretty poor" compared to the other leagues?

They do things the right way for their country, they benefit from it more than England or Spain do.

I lived in Spain, I lived in Caceres, their team hardly has any fans, I never went to watch, they're somewhere in the depths of the WhoCaresYou'reNotRealOrBarca league. There's no community, there's no anything there. Celta de Vigo might be a bit more community based because Celta is a part of a region that doesn't like Madrid.

However football isn't about winning Champions Leagues, it's about everything that goes along with the club, improving lives. Even in Sweden they have it better than England.

The big difference over here in Germany is that a football club is not just a football club. Taking my local Bundesliga side - Eintracht Frankfurt - whilst naturally the peak of the club is the mens first team the club also runs the following - some pro, some semi-pro and most open to anyone to join:

Basketball
Boxing
Cheerleading
Ice Hockey and other Ice Sports
ESports
Fencing
General fitness classes
Golf
Handball
Hockey
Athletics
Martial Arts
Cycling
Gymnastics
Wrestling
Rugby
Swimming
Dancing
Tennis
Table Tennis
Table football
Trampolining
Triathlon
Volleyball
Ultimate Frisbee

As a result, the club is a massive part of the city and a member of one of those clubs is, in terms of the clubs rules as important as say Mario Götze when it comes to decisions affecting the whole club i.e. they are both members and get 1 vote each.

Outside of that, there are even restaurants and bars afflicated to the club so it truly feels an intergral part of the city and whilst success in the football is fantastic (the scenes when they returned with the Europa League trophy were incredible), it is not the be all and end all.

It would be great to see something like that replicated by English clubs.

what a massive waste of time/money/effort
oxf*rd all of that shite

Thanks for that Green.