Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Mr Optimist » 02 May 2017 13:08

Nameless I don't think Wagner's explanation holds any water.
Is he giving players 3 weeks off ? Or is he going to play his full strength team this weekend in a dead game ?
The point about the performance in the other 44 games is irrelevant , Waburton has not been Forest manager all season so how he could have done better over 44 games is hard to see. He came in with a tough job and a fellow manager has made it harder by breaking the rules, and the spirit of the rules. Mowbray likewise at Blackburn.


And this is where the chances of any meaningful punishment other than a token small fine can be dished out by the authorities, in a squad game how they can they possibly be in a position to accurately judge what the strongest team of any given club is on a particular week, before you fudge the discussion further injuries,"slight knocks" "felt something in training" type excuses/reasons.

I remember everyone's favourite village idiot, Ian Holloway, relying on this when he was manager of Blackpool in the Premier League and made 10 changes against a top four side in a game he thought they had no chance of picking up anything from, and resting his team for a more important and winnable relegation six pointer in the next match. He got very uppity with the description of "second" team when interviewed but that's what it was as all his first choice players played the next week.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Royal_jimmy » 02 May 2017 13:15

Winston Smith
Nameless Did Pompey get any kind of punishment for their weakened side that got us relegated ?


They didn't get us relegated, our performances over the whole season did.


Losing to Fulham and Bolton home and away did actually. Even losing 1-0 in both games against Fulham would have kept us up

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Silver Fox » 02 May 2017 15:02

Hampshire Royal I assume all the players used by Huddersfield were members of the first team squad. That being the case, who has the right to tell Wagner that his team isn't strong enough? Any or all of those players have probably played at some time during the season.

Unless the EFL or FA take on the mantle of picking teams for every club, then it's no business of anyone else which team the manager picks. As has been said above, Forest and Blackburn are using this as a desperate excuse for their poor seasons.


This times many billions, if Wagner had put in 10 youth players on debut then the authorities might have a point but he put out a team of professional footballers all perfectly capable of playing in the championship.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by From Despair To Where? » 02 May 2017 15:36

Royal_jimmy
Winston Smith
Nameless Did Pompey get any kind of punishment for their weakened side that got us relegated ?


They didn't get us relegated, our performances over the whole season did.


Losing to Fulham and Bolton home and away did actually. Even losing 1-0 in both games against Fulham would have kept us up



Or not conceding a 94th minute winner at Manchester City. We could go on......

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Winston Smith » 02 May 2017 15:38

Royal_jimmy
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Nameless Did Pompey get any kind of punishment for their weakened side that got us relegated ?


They didn't get us relegated, our performances over the whole season did.


Losing to Fulham and Bolton home and away did actually. Even losing 1-0 in both games against Fulham would have kept us up


or drawing to Man Utd away instead of winning, or losing to Sunderland away instead of drawing, or losing to Blackburn away instead of drawing.....etc etc


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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by genome » 02 May 2017 18:03

If we'd won all our games, we would've won the league too

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by P!ssed Off » 02 May 2017 18:59

Silver Fox
Hampshire Royal I assume all the players used by Huddersfield were members of the first team squad. That being the case, who has the right to tell Wagner that his team isn't strong enough? Any or all of those players have probably played at some time during the season.

Unless the EFL or FA take on the mantle of picking teams for every club, then it's no business of anyone else which team the manager picks. As has been said above, Forest and Blackburn are using this as a desperate excuse for their poor seasons.


This times many billions, if Wagner had put in 10 youth players on debut then the authorities might have a point but he put out a team of professional footballers all perfectly capable of playing in the championship.


Whether they're "all perfectly capable of playing in the Championship" is utterly irrelevant.
Quite clearly he didn't put out his strongest team possible.
Which is against the rules, unless satisfactory reason is given.
It's up to the Football league to determine if any excuse given is satisfactory.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Silver Fox » 02 May 2017 19:07

So every week, injuries permitting, teams should put the same side out?

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by double d » 02 May 2017 20:01

EFL are an absolute joke. Huddersfield won their play off place so what difference does it make they can put whatever team they like out i think. Other teams (Blackburn etc) have been consistantly shite the whole season but they decide to moan over one game. Fools. It wasn't as if the players have not played a minute either.
Last edited by double d on 02 May 2017 20:07, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Hampshire Royal » 02 May 2017 20:02

A few people on here have said that Watson should be played in place of Gunter. Whether he's better than Gunter is a matter of opinion, but not that of the manager. But, if we ask the HNA armchair experts, they'd say that Gunter should be dropped.

You could probably say the same about most members of the first team. So, if Stam plays Gunter against the wishes of some of the HNA experts, and other players against the HNA wishes, should he be reported for not playing his strongest team?

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by NewCorkSeth » 02 May 2017 20:12

Above 2 posts are nonsense. The Watson/Gunter example is really forced..
Everyone mentioning Blackburn being in this situation due to playing poorly over the season are missing the point. Everyone is where they are on merit UNTIL a team is gifted a win. If Huddersfield had played a full strength team they probably would have won. Birmingham have been given an unfair advantage so the other teams have every right to feel aggrieved.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by Hampshire Royal » 02 May 2017 20:21

Wednesday, Fulham, Leeds and Brentford played (as far as I know) their full-strength teams against us, as did Newcastle. Who's to say what a club's full strength team is. Maybe Wagner wanted to see how some fringe squad players performed in a league game, which would help hime make up his mind who to play n the playoffs.

The example of dropping Gunter for Watson is not a spurious point. When does your strongest team become 'not your strongest team'?

It should always be the manager's decision who (possibly) has chosen the team all season. He should never be forced to make changes that he doesn't want to do. Fans can advise him by telling him player A should be playing not player B. How someone who is completely detached from the club can decide his selection policy is completely beyond me.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by muirinho » 02 May 2017 20:39

Hampshire Royal Wednesday, Fulham, Leeds and Brentford played (as far as I know) their full-strength teams against us, as did Newcastle. Who's to say what a club's full strength team is. Maybe Wagner wanted to see how some fringe squad players performed in a league game, which would help hime make up his mind who to play n the playoffs.

The example of dropping Gunter for Watson is not a spurious point. When does your strongest team become 'not your strongest team'?

It should always be the manager's decision who (possibly) has chosen the team all season. He should never be forced to make changes that he doesn't want to do. Fans can advise him by telling him player A should be playing not player B. How someone who is completely detached from the club can decide his selection policy is completely beyond me.


"Fans can advise him" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But besides that - there is some merit for trying out, say, Watson for Gunter. Or changing a couple of players because you are trying a different formation. Or resting players with knocks.

Ten changes does not come under any of these. Ten changes is fielding a weakened side. No ifs, buts, or maybes.


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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by NewCorkSeth » 02 May 2017 20:44

Hampshire Royal Wednesday, Fulham, Leeds and Brentford played (as far as I know) their full-strength teams against us, as did Newcastle. Who's to say what a club's full strength team is. Maybe Wagner wanted to see how some fringe squad players performed in a league game, which would help hime make up his mind who to play n the playoffs.

The example of dropping Gunter for Watson is not a spurious point. When does your strongest team become 'not your strongest team'?

It should always be the manager's decision who (possibly) has chosen the team all season. He should never be forced to make changes that he doesn't want to do. Fans can advise him by telling him player A should be playing not player B. How someone who is completely detached from the club can decide his selection policy is completely beyond me.

"When does your strongest team become 'not your strongest team'?" - When you make 10 changes to it.

The point is not about managers rights to put out whatever team they want. If we had to play a team needed 3 points to help them in a relegation battle and played the following team -
Jaakola
Watson
Ilori
Gravenberch
Obita
Quinn
Mutch
Popa
Meite
Mendes
Everyone here would be agreeing that it was a strange selection.

Managers have no right to deliberately lose games or ruin the standards of the league by not playing the strongest team they have.
It looks very much like Wagner has done that here.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by leon » 02 May 2017 21:23

Stam needs to be careful. Every time he picks Blackett he's picking a weakened team,

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by CountryRoyal » 02 May 2017 21:28

leon Stam needs to be careful. Every time he picks Blackett he's picking a weakened team,


:lol:

Just noted something on Blackett, I didn't realise quite just how inexperienced he is.

He's practically doubled his entire first team appearances with us this season and even though he's not the youngest, his mistakes are a little more understandable when attributed to lack of experience.

Compare to Obita who, although a few months older, has made almost triple the amount of appearances,
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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by From Despair To Where? » 02 May 2017 22:19

NewCorkSeth Everyone mentioning Blackburn being in this situation due to playing poorly over the season are missing the point. Everyone is where they are on merit UNTIL a team is gifted a win. If Huddersfield had played a full strength team they probably would have won. Birmingham have been given an unfair advantage so the other teams have every right to feel aggrieved.


I strongly disagree. There are 552 games in a season. A different result in just 1% of those games would have rendered Wagner's team selection irrelevant. Whilst I would favour some sort of gentleman's agreement over fielding full strength sides in games that matter, each club can only effect the outcome of the games they play in. They have no control over what 22 other teams do on any given set of fixtures and should not rely on what the other 22 teams do.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by P!ssed Off » 02 May 2017 23:30

From Despair To Where?
NewCorkSeth Everyone mentioning Blackburn being in this situation due to playing poorly over the season are missing the point. Everyone is where they are on merit UNTIL a team is gifted a win. If Huddersfield had played a full strength team they probably would have won. Birmingham have been given an unfair advantage so the other teams have every right to feel aggrieved.


I strongly disagree. There are 552 games in a season. A different result in just 1% of those games would have rendered Wagner's team selection irrelevant. Whilst I would favour some sort of gentleman's agreement over fielding full strength sides in games that matter, each club can only effect the outcome of the games they play in. They have no control over what 22 other teams do on any given set of fixtures and should not rely on what the other 22 teams do.


There doesn't need to be a gentleman's agreement over fielding full strength sides, it's in the oxf*rd rulebook.
As has been quoted multiple times...

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by RoyalBlue » 03 May 2017 07:43

The argument that teams get relegated over the course of a season loses most, if not all, of its validity when managers like Wagner act against the spirit of the season's competition by effectively gifting their relegation 'rivals' three bonus points.

IIRC the likes of Coppell and McDermott were always very clear that they would not affect the integrity of the league by fielding weakened teams for games that didn't really matter to us.

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Re: Huddersfield in trouble over weakened side.

by From Despair To Where? » 03 May 2017 07:53

P!ssed Off
From Despair To Where?
NewCorkSeth Everyone mentioning Blackburn being in this situation due to playing poorly over the season are missing the point. Everyone is where they are on merit UNTIL a team is gifted a win. If Huddersfield had played a full strength team they probably would have won. Birmingham have been given an unfair advantage so the other teams have every right to feel aggrieved.


I strongly disagree. There are 552 games in a season. A different result in just 1% of those games would have rendered Wagner's team selection irrelevant. Whilst I would favour some sort of gentleman's agreement over fielding full strength sides in games that matter, each club can only effect the outcome of the games they play in. They have no control over what 22 other teams do on any given set of fixtures and should not rely on what the other 22 teams do.


There doesn't need to be a gentleman's agreement over fielding full strength sides, it's in the oxf*rd rulebook.
As has been quoted multiple times...


Tommy Smith- 130 appearances over 3 seasons
Martin Crainey - 300 league careers mainly in the Championship
Mark Hudson - Club Captain, 400+ career appearances
Joe Lilley - 60 league appearances for Huddersfield
Phillip Billing - 40 appearances for Huddersfield, Danish International
Dean Whitehead - club vice captain, 600+ career appearances
Jack Payne - played in a third of Huddersfield's games this season
Harry Bunn - 90 league appearances in 3 years at Huddersfield
Colin Quaner - has played in 8 of their last 9 games.

Thats a team capable of holding its own in the Championship. Don't know how that lineup gifted Birmingham 3 points. Were Birmingham cheated by Aston Villa gifting Blackburn 3pts by not turning up when they were up for the derby match the week before? Have you seen any highlights of the Blackburn Villa game? The Villa players clearly couldn't give a fcuk. That's worse in my opinion, picking a full strength team and then not trying.

I could understand the arguement I'd he'd fielded a team of academy players but that's not the case, he's using squad players. Its a bullshit ruling with too many grey areas that is rarely enforced and even when it is, there's little more than a slap on the wrist.

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