BFTG - Cardiff

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Stranded
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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Stranded » 20 Aug 2019 08:20

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Hound The ref was pretty average to poor until about 60 odd mins when he picked up what Cardiff were up to and started pulling them up for their multiple fouls

Joao did fall over too easily, but he was still being constantly kicked, pulled and wrestled before the ball came to him. You're not actually allowed to do that and could easily have been a foul to him on numerous occasions


I agree apart from the fact I think you're being too kind to yet another sh+t official, the likes of whom are becoming the norm rather than the exception. Why did it take him an hour to spot what had been obvious to most since kick off?

As you suggest, on at least 4 or 5 occasions it had been obvious that Joao was being fouled long before he hit the deck and all occasions this week's twat gave nothing, in one case leading to a period of sustained pressure when we came close to conceding.

These incompetents are having an adverse effect on too many games and something needs to be done


Think they are bad now, wait a few years - the number of people becoming refs is dropping alarmingly due to the levels of abuse refs get and people just not seeing the point in putting up with that. We could well soon be in a position where we see refs promoted way above their level simply because the numbers aren't there.

There needs to be more thought given to how they attract and retain young refs and punishments at all levels for ref abuse have to be severe enough to make it stop. Think we may well see more refs "shipped in" like Jarred Gillett to fill gaps.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Snowball » 20 Aug 2019 08:27

It's not really true that with WBs we only have one defender on the wing, is it?

Since we have an extra CB and the three can shuffle left-right we more or less have two defenders per wing, don't we?

We were letting in goals pre-season because the 442 FBs were stranded up field, once because McIntyre was stranded up field.

I think 5/3/2 - 3/5/2 suits our strengths better, allows for Morrison to come in, adds strength and nous, get the the three CBs playing more naturally (McIntyre and Blackett as cover for the 3 CBs, and always the possibility to switch to 4-4-2 if we only have two CBs uninjured)

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Hendo » 20 Aug 2019 08:50

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bcubed Watched the match again on tv.

Still can't get over how good Swift was. He looked a different player to me. As well as the clever touches and great through balls there were tackles! At least 4, I reckon. And dont recall any daft passes to the opposition. And he looked fitter, quicker and stronger than last season or any previous season, come to that.

I've not been a fan and described him as inconsistent and part of a powderpuff midfield (or perhaps agreed with someone else using that term!) So this was great to see.

Do any of the other Swift detractors recognise these massive improvements?

I thought he was good against Weds. Not at all powderpuff like he was last year.


^this. He has put in some decent tackles in both games I have seen this year and hasn't looked like he wants to shy away from a tackle, which, given his injury record, you can sympathise with a bit.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by RoyalBlue » 20 Aug 2019 09:13

Stranded
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Hound The ref was pretty average to poor until about 60 odd mins when he picked up what Cardiff were up to and started pulling them up for their multiple fouls

Joao did fall over too easily, but he was still being constantly kicked, pulled and wrestled before the ball came to him. You're not actually allowed to do that and could easily have been a foul to him on numerous occasions


I agree apart from the fact I think you're being too kind to yet another sh+t official, the likes of whom are becoming the norm rather than the exception. Why did it take him an hour to spot what had been obvious to most since kick off?

As you suggest, on at least 4 or 5 occasions it had been obvious that Joao was being fouled long before he hit the deck and all occasions this week's twat gave nothing, in one case leading to a period of sustained pressure when we came close to conceding.

These incompetents are having an adverse effect on too many games and something needs to be done


Think they are bad now, wait a few years - the number of people becoming refs is dropping alarmingly due to the levels of abuse refs get and people just not seeing the point in putting up with that. We could well soon be in a position where we see refs promoted way above their level simply because the numbers aren't there.

There needs to be more thought given to how they attract and retain young refs and punishments at all levels for ref abuse have to be severe enough to make it stop. Think we may well see more refs "shipped in" like Jarred Gillett to fill gaps.


Whilst critical of refs - and I thought Sunday's and his useless 'assistant' on the East Stand side were poor in the way that they weren't alert to Warnock's 'defensive play', borne out by some of the photos from the game that look like their central offenders are trying to arrest Joao and Puscas and hold them in arm/head locks - I do recognise the problem you highlight.

The only upside is that they won't have sufficient qualified officials to roll out the appalling (in present form and practice) VAR further down the leagues!

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Hound » 20 Aug 2019 09:19

yes noticed 3 of the first 4 photos on the official highlight exactly what I was getting at in terms of 'foul play' from their CBs

on the bright side - very encouraging that Puscas can face up to two such physical CBs and come out on top in his first full league game


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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by WestYorksRoyal » 20 Aug 2019 09:31

Hound yes noticed 3 of the first 4 photos on the official highlight exactly what I was getting at in terms of 'foul play' from their CBs

on the bright side - very encouraging that Puscas can face up to two such physical CBs and come out on top in his first full league game

When you talk about adapting to the "rough and tumble" of the Championship, Cardiff are exactly the sort of team you have in mind. That he came through in flying colours is excellent.

WBA will be a different challenge. A good footballing side with a bit more intelligence and flair. Let's see how he deals with them.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 20 Aug 2019 09:34

Stranded There needs to be more thought given to how they attract and retain young refs and punishments at all levels for ref abuse have to be severe enough to make it stop.


I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Nameless » 20 Aug 2019 09:48

2 world wars, 1 world cup
Stranded There needs to be more thought given to how they attract and retain young refs and punishments at all levels for ref abuse have to be severe enough to make it stop.


I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.


Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 20 Aug 2019 10:22

Nameless
2 world wars, 1 world cup
Stranded There needs to be more thought given to how they attract and retain young refs and punishments at all levels for ref abuse have to be severe enough to make it stop.


I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.


Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Yeah, always hated the inferior game rugby, never thought I'd say I can't wait for the world cup in a few weeks whereas I couldn't be bothered with a lot of the footy nowadays except Reading.

The problem would be solved overnight if refs were allowed/encouraged to give yellow cards whenever they *felt* they were being harassed or there was any rudeness toward them whatsoever.

No decent player with his livelihood resting on getting decisions and matches going his way (apart from Robbie Fowler :P ) would refuse the opportunity to harass the ref as much as possible, and no manager who likewise has his career and reputation on the line would advise his players to totally respect the ref and not harass him in the slightest.

It can only come from giving the ref more power. I'd have no issue with an instant yellow being given for a player running up to the ref complaining. It'd cause shockwaves for a month or two with some games rendered a bit ridiculous with 9v9 left on the pitch but attitudes would change very very quickly.


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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by NewCorkSeth » 20 Aug 2019 10:27

I read somewhere that the falling number of refs is because of the frankly awful pay when they start out. Imagine having to drive yourself around the country for peanuts to ref a bunch of hungover oxf*rd who will abuse the shit out of you.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by bcubed » 20 Aug 2019 10:28

Nameless
2 world wars, 1 world cup
Stranded There needs to be more thought given to how they attract and retain young refs and punishments at all levels for ref abuse have to be severe enough to make it stop.


I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.


Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Did anyone notice Morrison sarcastically clapping the ref after a foul against him. Why no card for that?!

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by bcubed » 20 Aug 2019 10:31

2 world wars, 1 world cup
Nameless
2 world wars, 1 world cup
I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.


Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Yeah, always hated the inferior game rugby, never thought I'd say I can't wait for the world cup in a few weeks whereas I couldn't be bothered with a lot of the footy nowadays except Reading.

The problem would be solved overnight if refs were allowed/encouraged to give yellow cards whenever they *felt* they were being harassed or there was any rudeness toward them whatsoever.

No decent player with his livelihood resting on getting decisions and matches going his way (apart from Robbie Fowler :P ) would refuse the opportunity to harass the ref as much as possible, and no manager who likewise has his career and reputation on the line would advise his players to totally respect the ref and not harass him in the slightest.

It can only come from giving the ref more power. I'd have no issue with an instant yellow being given for a player running up to the ref complaining. It'd cause shockwaves for a month or two with some games rendered a bit ridiculous with 9v9 left on the pitch but attitudes would change very very quickly.


I’ve believed for years that the sin bin gives the ref the extra armoury they need. No one wants to watch a game of 10 v 11 but with a sin bin a brief punishment can be handed out without affecting the whole game. And it should act as a deterrent when players realise it’s being used regularly. Glad to see it’s finally being trialled in lower leagues

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 20 Aug 2019 10:57

bcubed
Nameless
2 world wars, 1 world cup
I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.


Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Did anyone notice Morrison sarcastically clapping the ref after a foul against him. Why no card for that?!


Yeah, exactly that sort of behaviour. But that's probably the mildest example of disrespect tbh.


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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by bcubed » 20 Aug 2019 11:07

2 world wars, 1 world cup
bcubed
Nameless
Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Did anyone notice Morrison sarcastically clapping the ref after a foul against him. Why no card for that?!


Yeah, exactly that sort of behaviour. But that's probably the mildest example of disrespect tbh.


It is but it's symptomatic of a lack of respect

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Mr Angry » 20 Aug 2019 11:08

bcubed Watched the match again on tv.

Still can't get over how good Swift was. He looked a different player to me. As well as the clever touches and great through balls there were tackles! At least 4, I reckon. And dont recall any daft passes to the opposition. And he looked fitter, quicker and stronger than last season or any previous season, come to that.

I've not been a fan and described him as inconsistent and part of a powderpuff midfield (or perhaps agreed with someone else using that term!) So this was great to see.

Do any of the other Swift detractors recognise these massive improvements?



In the build up to the first goal, Swift did some great off the ball running by coming across to give Puscas a passing option; that pulled a Cardiff defender towards him leaving the space for Puscas to cut back into after going past the left back in order to give himself a better angle for his shot.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by biff » 20 Aug 2019 11:52

Re-watching the first goal (for the 50th time :lol: ), every touch Puscas takes means something. It isnt just a kick and rush Meite job, every push of the ball creates an angle to the next one. He's obviously a touch of class.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Platypuss » 20 Aug 2019 11:56

biff Re-watching the first goal (for the 50th time :lol: ), every touch Puscas takes means something. It isn't just a kick and rush Meite job, every push of the ball creates an angle to the next one.


Shame he didn't do that for the 2 on 1!

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by biff » 20 Aug 2019 11:57

Platypuss
biff Re-watching the first goal (for the 50th time :lol: ), every touch Puscas takes means something. It isn't just a kick and rush Meite job, every push of the ball creates an angle to the next one.


Shame he didn't do that for the 2 on 1!

:lol: :lol:

Had so much time to think he psyched himself out I reckon. We've all been there, just at a decidedly lower level....

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by CountryRoyal » 20 Aug 2019 12:14

biff
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biff Re-watching the first goal (for the 50th time :lol: ), every touch Puscas takes means something. It isn't just a kick and rush Meite job, every push of the ball creates an angle to the next one.


Shame he didn't do that for the 2 on 1!

:lol: :lol:

Had so much time to think he psyched himself out I reckon. We've all been there, just at a decidedly lower level....


Yep definitely one of those where he had too much time. Also keeper did well to stay on his feet and and not make Puscas mind up for him. Obviously he still should have scored, but certainly not as straightforward as it might have appeared!

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2019 12:17

bcubed
Nameless
2 world wars, 1 world cup
I agree.

I find it shocking how it's just taken as normal for players to gesticulate at refs, argue with them, shout etc.. Whilst I prefer footy, I do admire the respect rugby players tend to have for the ref.

It *should* be the case that even the slightest negativity to the ref by any player is an instant yellow or red. Of course that won't be happening any time soon.


Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Did anyone notice Morrison sarcastically clapping the ref after a foul against him. Why no card for that?!

Sadly, because if the referees gave out cards for every bit of dissent you'd have at least a couple of games abandoned a week for too many players sent off, for at least the first month.

And the FL / PL and their paymasters $ky aren't willing to allow that to damage their brand.

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