BFTG - Cardiff

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2019 12:21

2 world wars, 1 world cup
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Agree 100%
Football has a serious problem
The Respect campaign failed and hardly surprising when I recall the attitude of posters on here was that referees needed to earn respect rather than be given it.
The authorities seem unable to sort out the problem. VAR is an irrelevant and unnecessary distraction that solves nothing.
I actually fear that football is heading for a serious fall unless it addresses it’s major issues
See how cricket and rugby deal with contentious decisions - ask why football acts so differently


Did anyone notice Morrison sarcastically clapping the ref after a foul against him. Why no card for that?!


Yeah, exactly that sort of behaviour. But that's probably the mildest example of disrespect tbh.

Yeah, sarcastic clapping, walking away when called over, refusing to come when called, kicking the ball away, failing to move the free kick / throw in to where you're told. Leaving the pitch slowly or from the wrong side when asked to speed up. All worthy of a warning.

Squaring up to the ref, surrounding him, verbally abusing, pushing, shouting - all worthy of at least a warning, maybe a red card. But then you'd see games where the ref sends off half a team in one fell swoop.

Hanging around and having to be repeatedly told to leave the field after shown a red card. Should be an extra game suspension for every time you're told to leave the field of play.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 20 Aug 2019 12:26

Snowflake Royal
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Did anyone notice Morrison sarcastically clapping the ref after a foul against him. Why no card for that?!


Yeah, exactly that sort of behaviour. But that's probably the mildest example of disrespect tbh.

Yeah, sarcastic clapping, walking away when called over, refusing to come when called, kicking the ball away, failing to move the free kick / throw in to where you're told. All worthy of a warning.

Squaring up to the ref, surrounding him, verbally abusing, pushing, shouting - all worthy of at least a warning, maybe a red card. But then you'd see games where the ref sends off half a team in one fell swoop.


Exactly that's the problem. Abandoned games.

I'm sure it's not too difficult to wean onto it though over the course of a few seasons. Eg automatic yellows for the harsher ones (any surrounding, squaring, verbal comeback etc) one season, followed by a step up to what you suggest above the following season etc..

As long as players and managers are fully aware of it all and know what direction things are going.

You're probably sadly right about the paymasters though. Video assists, strict refereeing etc all reduce the 'excitement' and controversy of games I presume they believe. I don't know.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by NewCorkSeth » 20 Aug 2019 12:27

Swift in the first half kept walking away from the ref when he was called over for a caution. I dont like seeing it either.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by CrowthorneRoyal » 20 Aug 2019 12:40

2 world wars, 1 world cup
Snowflake Royal
2 world wars, 1 world cup
Yeah, exactly that sort of behaviour. But that's probably the mildest example of disrespect tbh.

Yeah, sarcastic clapping, walking away when called over, refusing to come when called, kicking the ball away, failing to move the free kick / throw in to where you're told. All worthy of a warning.

Squaring up to the ref, surrounding him, verbally abusing, pushing, shouting - all worthy of at least a warning, maybe a red card. But then you'd see games where the ref sends off half a team in one fell swoop.


Exactly that's the problem. Abandoned games.

I'm sure it's not too difficult to wean onto it though over the course of a few seasons. Eg automatic yellows for the harsher ones (any surrounding, squaring, verbal comeback etc) one season, followed by a step up to what you suggest above the following season etc..

As long as players and managers are fully aware of it all and know what direction things are going.

You're probably sadly right about the paymasters though. Video assists, strict refereeing etc all reduce the 'excitement' and controversy of games I presume they believe. I don't know.


In hockey (field hockey) they have green cards for minor offences like appealing to the umpire too much etc. The player gets the green card and is sent off for 2 minutes (or more for repeat offences). The game restarts straight away (even with the player still running off the pitch). The clock for the suspension only starts once the sent off player is sat down in the sin bin area. Certainly makes them get off the pitch in a hurry. They also have two umpires on the pitch at once. One at either end to make sure nothing is missed. Dont even get me started on how much better they use VAR than football. Plus mic'd up umpires so you can hear what the players are being bollocked for.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Victor Meldrew » 20 Aug 2019 12:50

I thought I read somewhere that this season it was an automatic yellow for talking back to the referee or was it just wishful thinking?.

Good to see Coady in last night's game v Man Utd just accept the penalty decision given against him and walk away.

On Swift, not only does he look to have toughened up but he just looks quicker-not just for his goal but on other occasions as well.
This is the Swift we want and maybe being free of injury helps.


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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Mr Optimist » 20 Aug 2019 12:52

One of the best parts about Sunday for me was beating the man they love to hate's team fairly and squarely with no contentious decisions or extenuating circumstances to blame for his tactical ineptness.

So much so he had to blame his own decision of putting their two remaining subs on at half time in a "look at me, I'm not happy with that first half performance" dramatic gesture for the Cardiff fans benefit, and Marlon Pack tripping up over a blade of glass....barrel well and truly scraped.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Woodcote Royal » 20 Aug 2019 13:00

Snowball It's not really true that with WBs we only have one defender on the wing, is it?

Since we have an extra CB and the three can shuffle left-right we more or less have two defenders per wing, don't we?

We were letting in goals pre-season because the 442 FBs were stranded up field, once because McIntyre was stranded up field.

I think 5/3/2 - 3/5/2 suits our strengths better, allows for Morrison to come in, adds strength and nous, get the the three CBs playing more naturally (McIntyre and Blackett as cover for the 3 CBs, and always the possibility to switch to 4-4-2 if we only have two CBs uninjured)


I loved how the system worked for us and long may it continue but they all have they're in built weaknesses and this one is often countered by overloading the flanks.

Leaving Adams on the bench and keeping all those young legs on the pitch to cover any gaps would do no harm!

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Hound » 20 Aug 2019 13:06

there's a youtube vid knocking about of all of(?) Miazga's touches on Sunday

its highly impressive I must say. All cleanly won headers and crisp passing.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Forbury Lion » 20 Aug 2019 13:28

CrowthorneRoyal In hockey (field hockey) they have green cards for minor offences like appealing to the umpire too much etc. The player gets the green card and is sent off for 2 minutes (or more for repeat offences). The game restarts straight away (even with the player still running off the pitch). The clock for the suspension only starts once the sent off player is sat down in the sin bin area. Certainly makes them get off the pitch in a hurry.
Maybe something worth trialing - Every yellow card you get 2 minutes in the dug out, If you play the ball on the way off the pitch/don't get off quick enough you get an additional penalty..... However, that may cause the team to timewaste for 2 minutes

CrowthorneRoyal They also have two umpires on the pitch at once. One at either end to make sure nothing is missed. Dont even get me started on how much better they use VAR than football. Plus mic'd up umpires so you can hear what the players are being bollocked for.
Can you imagine 2 referees in a Championship game? - One see's a fowl and the other doesn't... In theory a great idea, I guess they would referee one half each.

Mic up the referees by all means, let's hear the crap they have to put up with from the players. I recall David Ellery wore a microphone as an experiment and Tony Adams was abusing him all game

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgi ... s-arsenal/


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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by NewCorkSeth » 20 Aug 2019 13:29

Forbury Lion
CrowthorneRoyal In hockey (field hockey) they have green cards for minor offences like appealing to the umpire too much etc. The player gets the green card and is sent off for 2 minutes (or more for repeat offences). The game restarts straight away (even with the player still running off the pitch). The clock for the suspension only starts once the sent off player is sat down in the sin bin area. Certainly makes them get off the pitch in a hurry.
Maybe something worth trialing - Every yellow card you get 2 minutes in the dug out, If you play the ball on the way off the pitch/don't get off quick enough you get an additional penalty..... However, that may cause the team to timewaste for 2 minutes

CrowthorneRoyal They also have two umpires on the pitch at once. One at either end to make sure nothing is missed. Dont even get me started on how much better they use VAR than football. Plus mic'd up umpires so you can hear what the players are being bollocked for.
Can you imagine 2 referees in a Championship game? - One see's a fowl and the other doesn't... In theory a great idea, I guess they would referee one half each.

Mic up the referees by all means, let's hear the crap they have to put up with from the players. I recall David Ellery wore a microphone as an experiment and Tony Adams was abusing him all game

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgi ... s-arsenal/

What kinda fowl we talking here? Duck? Goose?

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by If you still hate Futcher » 20 Aug 2019 13:33

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Snowball It's not really true that with WBs we only have one defender on the wing, is it?

Since we have an extra CB and the three can shuffle left-right we more or less have two defenders per wing, don't we?

We were letting in goals pre-season because the 442 FBs were stranded up field, once because McIntyre was stranded up field.

I think 5/3/2 - 3/5/2 suits our strengths better, allows for Morrison to come in, adds strength and nous, get the the three CBs playing more naturally (McIntyre and Blackett as cover for the 3 CBs, and always the possibility to switch to 4-4-2 if we only have two CBs uninjured)


I loved how the system worked for us and long may it continue but they all have they're in built weaknesses and this one is often countered by overloading the flanks.

Leaving Adams on the bench and keeping all those young legs on the pitch to cover any gaps would do no harm!


Yeah, as I said earlier it worked because Cardiff don't exploit the space behind the wingback - I remember a game where Stam tried playing with a back 3 and we got ripped apart in those areas as the defence/midfield weren't sure who should be where.

I hope that with the 3 'M'-igo's there and Pele in front of them the organisation will be better but it still may take time

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Snowball » 20 Aug 2019 13:34

Hound there's a youtube vid knocking about of all of(?) Miazga's touches on Sunday

its highly impressive I must say. All cleanly won headers and crisp passing.


He had more than twice the header winners of the other two CBs

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2019 13:38

Victor Meldrew On Swift, not only does he look to have toughened up but he just looks quicker-not just for his goal but on other occasions as well.
This is the Swift we want and maybe being free of injury helps.

Yep, said at the end of last season wanted him to get in a better conditioning program over the Summer and hoped that Gomes would help in that way. Long season ahead, but early signs are promising.


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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Maneki Neko » 20 Aug 2019 13:44

Woodcote Royal
Snowball It's not really true that with WBs we only have one defender on the wing, is it?

Since we have an extra CB and the three can shuffle left-right we more or less have two defenders per wing, don't we?

We were letting in goals pre-season because the 442 FBs were stranded up field, once because McIntyre was stranded up field.

I think 5/3/2 - 3/5/2 suits our strengths better, allows for Morrison to come in, adds strength and nous, get the the three CBs playing more naturally (McIntyre and Blackett as cover for the 3 CBs, and always the possibility to switch to 4-4-2 if we only have two CBs uninjured)


I loved how the system worked for us and long may it continue but they all have they're in built weaknesses and this one is often countered by overloading the flanks.

Leaving Adams on the bench and keeping all those young legs on the pitch to cover any gaps would do no harm!


with our midfielders and strikers now this is less of an issue for me. if we lose the width, there is more than enough strength and ball control/holding through the middle to side step the tactic

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Snowball » 20 Aug 2019 13:50

Hound there's a youtube vid knocking about of all of(?) Miazga's touches on Sunday

its highly impressive I must say. All cleanly won headers and crisp passing.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzgHMW0lZaw

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Victor Meldrew » 20 Aug 2019 13:56

If you still hate Futcher
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Snowball It's not really true that with WBs we only have one defender on the wing, is it?

Since we have an extra CB and the three can shuffle left-right we more or less have two defenders per wing, don't we?

We were letting in goals pre-season because the 442 FBs were stranded up field, once because McIntyre was stranded up field.

I think 5/3/2 - 3/5/2 suits our strengths better, allows for Morrison to come in, adds strength and nous, get the the three CBs playing more naturally (McIntyre and Blackett as cover for the 3 CBs, and always the possibility to switch to 4-4-2 if we only have two CBs uninjured)


I loved how the system worked for us and long may it continue but they all have they're in built weaknesses and this one is often countered by overloading the flanks.

Leaving Adams on the bench and keeping all those young legs on the pitch to cover any gaps would do no harm!


Yeah, as I said earlier it worked because Cardiff don't exploit the space behind the wingback - I remember a game where Stam tried playing with a back 3 and we got ripped apart in those areas as the defence/midfield weren't sure who should be where.

I hope that with the 3 'M'-igo's there and Pele in front of them the organisation will be better but it still may take time


But these are better players.
We saw the defence improve last season when Miazga came in and on Sunday it was great to see Morrison taking responsibility when necessary, something that our defence in the past few years has been reluctant to do and how many times have we seen them all looking at each other after a goal has gone in?
Early days but promising.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by bcubed » 20 Aug 2019 14:54

Forbury Lion
CrowthorneRoyal In hockey (field hockey) they have green cards for minor offences like appealing to the umpire too much etc. The player gets the green card and is sent off for 2 minutes (or more for repeat offences). The game restarts straight away (even with the player still running off the pitch). The clock for the suspension only starts once the sent off player is sat down in the sin bin area. Certainly makes them get off the pitch in a hurry.
Maybe something worth trialing - Every yellow card you get 2 minutes in the dug out, If you play the ball on the way off the pitch/don't get off quick enough you get an additional penalty..... However, that may cause the team to timewaste for 2 minutes

CrowthorneRoyal They also have two umpires on the pitch at once. One at either end to make sure nothing is missed. Dont even get me started on how much better they use VAR than football. Plus mic'd up umpires so you can hear what the players are being bollocked for.
Can you imagine 2 referees in a Championship game? - One see's a fowl and the other doesn't... In theory a great idea, I guess they would referee one half each.

Mic up the referees by all means, let's hear the crap they have to put up with from the players. I recall David Ellery wore a microphone as an experiment and Tony Adams was abusing him all game

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgi ... s-arsenal/



Sin bins may well sort this out

Being trialled in lower leagues so we could see them introduced within 3 or 4 years

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by WestYorksRoyal » 20 Aug 2019 15:25

bcubed
Forbury Lion
CrowthorneRoyal In hockey (field hockey) they have green cards for minor offences like appealing to the umpire too much etc. The player gets the green card and is sent off for 2 minutes (or more for repeat offences). The game restarts straight away (even with the player still running off the pitch). The clock for the suspension only starts once the sent off player is sat down in the sin bin area. Certainly makes them get off the pitch in a hurry.
Maybe something worth trialing - Every yellow card you get 2 minutes in the dug out, If you play the ball on the way off the pitch/don't get off quick enough you get an additional penalty..... However, that may cause the team to timewaste for 2 minutes

CrowthorneRoyal They also have two umpires on the pitch at once. One at either end to make sure nothing is missed. Dont even get me started on how much better they use VAR than football. Plus mic'd up umpires so you can hear what the players are being bollocked for.
Can you imagine 2 referees in a Championship game? - One see's a fowl and the other doesn't... In theory a great idea, I guess they would referee one half each.

Mic up the referees by all means, let's hear the crap they have to put up with from the players. I recall David Ellery wore a microphone as an experiment and Tony Adams was abusing him all game

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgi ... s-arsenal/



Sin bins may well sort this out

Being trialled in lower leagues so we could see them introduced within 3 or 4 years

I agree that tougher rules and the ability to sin-bin will help. But, in the professional game, I think the FA and referees can help by acknowledging respect is a 2 way street. Whereas in rugby and cricket the decision making process is fairly transparent, it's very opaque in football. Where tight calls are made, referees rarely front up and explain their decision making process. The review process for suspensions is ridiculous; decisions very very rarely get overturned, almost as if governing bodies consider referees infallible. They're not; they're humans. If you fail to acknowledge errors and human fallability, you look weak and inept. Referees often look aloof and treat players like children.

The best example of how you can manage better is Howard Webb, who most would agree is the best English referee since the turn of the millennium. He spoke to players like adults and explained his decisions to captains, and subsequently he put up with far less dissent and shit than his peers.

Harsher penalties for dissent needed too; Morrison's sarcastic applause was definitely worth a yellow. But maybe a bit more humility and respect from referees in the first place could help.

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2019 15:40

Re. ref retention stats, and their pay, we had this discussion a while back, and I think it was said that they are decently paid now esp given their hours? Not sure, but I think one of the refs among us said that? Also, their training programs are better than ever, fitness and diet training has come a long way, etc?

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Re: BFTG - Cardiff

by Forbury Lion » 20 Aug 2019 16:51

If you have a manager who respects the officials, acts professionally towards them then that will translate into the playing squad.

Steve Coppell v Neil Warnock, being two polar opposites in this respect

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