Rumour - Rob Dickie

[kwik-silva]

Cooper, Stacey, Dickie, Fosu....we really dropped the ball. It was clear at the time they were not far off the required standard (they are not another Antonio who was sold at the right time).

What is their collective value now? Was it Stam and Tevreden who shipped them out?

Fine with hindsight but weren't those the heady days (remember them?) when we had aspirations of being a Premier League club?
None of them have yet IMHO shown themselves good enough for the top level with Stacey not having exactlylived up to his transfer value at relegated Bournemouth.

Of the 4 my own disappointment is that we didn't keep Cooper as I think with more work he could have been ok for us.

Fosu too. He made some exciting cameos and excelled in pre-season. But we signed Callum Harriot instead of giving him a proper chance.

I think you're rewriting history a bit there with exciting cameos - he looked good in his one and only match for us

[muirinho]

Cooper, Stacey, Dickie, Fosu....we really dropped the ball. It was clear at the time they were not far off the required standard (they are not another Antonio who was sold at the right time).

What is their collective value now? Was it Stam and Tevreden who shipped them out?

I think a mixture of Clarke and Gomes? Not sure when Dickie left permanently.

Steve Clarke ripped the heart out of the club one summer. Not blaming him entirely, I'm sure others were involved, but it was definitely during his tenure.

think all of those were Stam weren't they?

Yes, all were Stam. Mostly the decisions were made in 16/17 when we were riding high and potentially looking at PL football. Dickie was sold in January 18.

All of them were sold to the level of football they could play as part of the first team. There's no guarantee they could have progressed to where they are now if we'd hung onto them, and it is actually extremely unlikely, given they'd have spent a lot of time in the reserves or on the bench. I'd also argue that even now, post that development, none of them are better than what we currently have in the club. I don't think Stacey is a PL player, and I'd be extremely surprised if any club comes in for him, now that Bournemouth have been relegated.

Incidentally, if we'd kept Dickie, would Tom McIntyre, who is younger and (IMO) better, have got the opportunities he's got since?

There are lots of things I'd criticise the club for in the last few years - I don't think letting that quartet go are in that list.

[WoodleyRoyal]

save your breath. Reading fans have this weird fascination about letting youngsters go. People were losing their shit when we let teddy howe go in January having seen him just a couple of times. It's really weird. The Acadamy should fund itself. The selling of these players keeps it ticking along and the hope we produce a few good ones that will break into the first team from time to time. Reading fans however, want to keep every single youth player forever.

[Snowflake Royal]

All you have to do is look at the cost, quality and performance of the players we brought in for their positions after or around letting them go.

Stacey could cover RB and play RW
Dickie could cover RB and play CB
Cooper could play CB
Fosu could play LW

RB - we had Gunter and played Bacuna there when he seemed signed to take over from Williams in midfield

CB - we've signed Blackett and Ilori for millions, loaned Miazga at likely substantial cost, Elphick, Oxford, plus signed Morrison

RW - we signed Aluko, Meite, Popa, Beerens, retained McCleary

LW - loaned Sims and Timbe, signed Barrow, Harriott, Pelle Clement

You can't seriously tell me that most of those were good value over giving more of those four game and bench time.

Yeah, they'd probably have played less than moving, though look at the likes of Rino, Olise, Richards and McIntyre when given a shot... I'd say at least half of those four were better prospects than Richards, but they'd have also go their experience at a higher level with better players, facilities and coaching and so could have progressed quicker in terms of number of games played.

Cooper for me is one that was a shame but not an obviously poor decision at the time, mainly in retrospect.

Fosu was understandable, he hadn't been reliable and had poor loans.

But Dickie and Stacey were reliable and more adaptable than the others. Definitely poor decisions and that's not hindsight talking, called it at the time.

[Zip]

Was there a sell on clause when Dickie left us for Oxford?

[Hendo]

Was there a sell on clause when Dickie left us for Oxford?

Apparently so. I think it’ll be less than a mil, but every little helps and all that.

[WestYorksRoyal]

All you have to do is look at the cost, quality and performance of the players we brought in for their positions after or around letting them go.

Stacey could cover RB and play RW
Dickie could cover RB and play CB
Cooper could play CB
Fosu could play LW

RB - we had Gunter and played Bacuna there when he seemed signed to take over from Williams in midfield

CB - we've signed Blackett and Ilori for millions, loaned Miazga at likely substantial cost, Elphick, Oxford, plus signed Morrison

RW - we signed Aluko, Meite, Popa, Beerens, retained McCleary

LW - loaned Sims and Timbe, signed Barrow, Harriott, Pelle Clement

You can't seriously tell me that most of those were good value over giving more of those four game and bench time.

Yeah, they'd probably have played less than moving, though look at the likes of Rino, Olise, Richards and McIntyre when given a shot... I'd say at least half of those four were better prospects than Richards, but they'd have also go their experience at a higher level with better players, facilities and coaching and so could have progressed quicker in terms of number of games played.

Cooper for me is one that was a shame but not an obviously poor decision at the time, mainly in retrospect.

Fosu was understandable, he hadn't been reliable and had poor loans.

But Dickie and Stacey were reliable and more adaptable than the others. Definitely poor decisions and that's not hindsight talking, called it at the time.

Cooper had a clear rationale. Stam wanted defenders who were comfortable on the ball and that wasn't his strength. Trouble is, you need to commit to playing styles and preferences. Cooper would have thrived under Bowen and even under Gomes' pragmatism.

[Nameless]

Stacey was in the process of evolving into a right back when he left, he wasn’t playing on the wing but was no where ready to be a starting full back. I believe he also chose to leave, turning down a contract to stay because he knew he needed to get games and wouldn’t be a starter for us.

[Snowflake Royal]

I'm sure if he'd been more a part of plans and not completely sidelined he'd have had interest in trying to force his way into a Championship side.

Could easily have been on the bench most weeks, getting regular cameos and cup games.

No one would have said any of our current young players were ready to be starting regularly before they got their chance and broke through. You just don't know until you get a chance in a lot of cases.

[maffff]

Stacey was in the process of evolving into a right back when he left, he wasn’t playing on the wing but was no where ready to be a starting full back. I believe he also chose to leave, turning down a contract to stay because he knew he needed to get games and wouldn’t be a starter for us.

In, I think, the Tevreden interview Tev said Stacey wanted to leave as he wanted game time and he didn't want to be plagued as a right back (!).

He said he tried to keep him.

Dickie we had a good sell on in, was reportedly 30/40% at the time. Very low fee but big sell on, did that with most of those - be good to see what the accounts show in time.

[URZZZZ]

All you have to do is look at the cost, quality and performance of the players we brought in for their positions after or around letting them go.

Stacey could cover RB and play RW
Dickie could cover RB and play CB
Cooper could play CB
Fosu could play LW

RB - we had Gunter and played Bacuna there when he seemed signed to take over from Williams in midfield

CB - we've signed Blackett and Ilori for millions, loaned Miazga at likely substantial cost, Elphick, Oxford, plus signed Morrison

RW - we signed Aluko, Meite, Popa, Beerens, retained McCleary

LW - loaned Sims and Timbe, signed Barrow, Harriott, Pelle Clement

You can't seriously tell me that most of those were good value over giving more of those four game and bench time.

Yeah, they'd probably have played less than moving, though look at the likes of Rino, Olise, Richards and McIntyre when given a shot... I'd say at least half of those four were better prospects than Richards, but they'd have also go their experience at a higher level with better players, facilities and coaching and so could have progressed quicker in terms of number of games played.

Cooper for me is one that was a shame but not an obviously poor decision at the time, mainly in retrospect.

Fosu was understandable, he hadn't been reliable and had poor loans.

But Dickie and Stacey were reliable and more adaptable than the others. Definitely poor decisions and that's not hindsight talking, called it at the time.

Think you’re missing the point though

At their stage in development, perhaps they wanted regular game time, starting week in week out. Us, off the back of just finishing third place may not have been able to provide those reassurances

Compare those players at that time period to the breakthrough of Olise, Rinomhota etc, who came in when the team were badly struggling and near the bottom of the table. Do you think Rinomhota would have had the chance he had here if Meyler was any use for example or Ezatolahi wasn’t permanently crocked? Very much doubt it. On many occasions, academy players will initially break through via “luck”

I do understand your frustration about bringing in players almost for the sake of it who turn out to be poor value for money (Harriott, Popa, Weiser filed under here). But if the academy lads want first team football and we can’t offer it here, obviously the best thing to do is to move them on

[Nameless]

I'm sure if he'd been more a part of plans and not completely sidelined he'd have had interest in trying to force his way into a Championship side.

Could easily have been on the bench most weeks, getting regular cameos and cup games.

No one would have said any of our current young players were ready to be starting regularly before they got their chance and broke through. You just don't know until you get a chance in a lot of cases.

There is so much in that which simply doesn’t work.
You being sure of stuff you are making up isn’t a great arguement. You really have no idea what plans there were for Stacey, evidence suggests there were plans but the player had different objectives and chose to drop down the leagues to progress rather than sit in the bench for us. It was his call, utterly understandable and he’s done very well as a result.
We made a good amount of money from the decision and that is a very valid part of having an Academy. I’d love to see us with afirst team from the Academy but realistically bringing in money is just as much part of the project.
If we kept them all just in case they come good we’d need to become an American football franchise to fit them all on the roster !

I do very much agree that sometimes it’s frustrating to have a squad place taken up by a player from outside (even if they were free and on lowest wages) rather Han seeing a Reading lad there but I don’t think it often comes down to it being a binary decision as to which has the contract.

[Notts Royal]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

[Nameless]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

Forget the ‘given a chance’ stuff. Jake Cooper played 42 times for us. I liked a lot of things about him, good physical presence, useful height, attacking threat. But he wasn’t a ball player and he made too many mistakes (I accept we’ve had other error prone defenders !). It was decided at that time he wasn’t the player we needed. You can’t then deep freeze a player and bring him out a few years later to see if he’s improved.
Stacey wanted to play. He could have signed a new deal and stayed, but he opted to go and find regular football. Fair decision, it’s worked for him and we’ve made a big profit. How would you have forced him to stay ?

[Broxroyal]

Stacey was in the process of evolving into a right back when he left, he wasn’t playing on the wing but was no where ready to be a starting full back. I believe he also chose to leave, turning down a contract to stay because he knew he needed to get games and wouldn’t be a starter for us.

This isn't quite correct. Stacey wasn't at the end of his contract with us. He had been on loan at Exeter and was half expecting to be sent on loan again. He returned from his holiday to find that Reading had accepted an offer from Luton. It was then up to him whether to go or not, as he still had a contract for another year with us. He decided to go, after much thought.

[Snowflake Royal]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

Someone gets it.


Anyway. Told y'all at the time. Proved right now.

[Hendo]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

Someone gets it.


Anyway. Told y'all at the time. Proved right now.

But the problem is, no one has a crystal ball. Yes, they could've been kept and got experience as sub players, playing the cup games, the odd league game.

But they might not have developed into the players they are now with that limited experience. The fact they dropped down the leagues, played loads of minutes obviously made them better players. It isn't like we let them go to Championship rivals and they were suddenly playing week-in and week-out and performing well.

If we had hung on to them for another couple of years, they might not have progressed, we would've released them anyway and now they wouldn't be anywhere near league football because they hadn't been exposed enough.

They also might've been really bad in training and thus not trusted by the manager, without being in and around the team, we have no idea what actually goes on.

As for being proved right, congratulations? Maybe you should let the club know of this incredible foresight you have and you can then tell them which players they should and shouldn't release.

[URZZZZ]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

Someone gets it.


Anyway. Told y'all at the time. Proved right now.

But the problem is, no one has a crystal ball. Yes, they could've been kept and got experience as sub players, playing the cup games, the odd league game.

But they might not have developed into the players they are now with that limited experience. The fact they dropped down the leagues, played loads of minutes obviously made them better players. It isn't like we let them go to Championship rivals and they were suddenly playing week-in and week-out and performing well.

If we had hung on to them for another couple of years, they might not have progressed, we would've released them anyway and now they wouldn't be anywhere near league football because they hadn't been exposed enough.

They also might've been really bad in training and thus not trusted by the manager, without being in and around the team, we have no idea what actually goes on.

As for being proved right, congratulations? Maybe you should let the club know of this incredible foresight you have and you can then tell them which players they should and shouldn't release.

Fully agreed with all of that, youngsters regularly need to take a step down to maximise future potential

[NewCorkSeth]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

Someone gets it.


Anyway. Told y'all at the time. Proved right now.

What did you tell us at the time?

[AthleticoSpizz]

I’d say the frustrating thing is they didn’t get their chance despite the team/squad at the time. We were lower-mid table in 14/15, and despite a terrific start to the 15/16 season, ended up lower-mid table.

.Fosu was no worse than the left winger we had at the time. So there was a season there where he could’ve been utilised (15/16) at least off the bench. Different story once we’d signed Beerens

Gunter was our right back in 15/16 so fair plays, but Stacey could’ve been on the bench.

Cooper could easily have filled in as our 4th centre back behind McShane, Moore & Illori. Dickie was more junior at the time so understandably his chances were hampered.

But it’s not like we were flying in the league and had brilliant players in those positions. Contrast that with Antonio, who had 2 excellent wingers (Jobi & Jimmy) and 1 good winger showing promise at the time (HRK), plus we were flying in the league. So that was completely understandable that he had to move on

Someone gets it.


Anyway. Told y'all at the time. Proved right now.

self praise being no praise (obvs)....jeez