Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

[Winston Biscuit]

Dundee Utd's Jamie Robson chose a good week to show off his new fancy dress costume

[Silver Fox]

When someone's not at all famous can they still get cancelled?

[Hoop Blah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46788873

Somebody is in for quite the ticking off if this gets proven!

[Winston Biscuit]

yay the racism thread is back!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... are_btn_tw

Paris Saint-Germain have confirmed that their scouts illegally racially profiled young players as part of their recruitment process.

They were asked to list whether the youngsters were French, north African, West Indian or African, allegedly in order to limit the number of black recruits

PSG hit with a €100k fine in the 'Ethnic Filing' case

that'll learn 'em!

[From Despair To Where?]

That's about a day's pay for Neymar, isn't it?

[Victor Meldrew]

AS expected, the biggest headlines today were about what was said or not said last night in Montenegro and not much about a good 5-1 victory.
On the radio phone-ins it is about the same subject and on Talksport there were contributions galore from retired black players and Press broadly making the point about "here we go again".
Furthermore the black reporter said that clubs here need to have points deductions when racism crops up and not just have points deductions when financial irregularities are concerned ;his thrust was that money is more important than curbing racism as far as the governing bodies are concerned.
Also he and all the other contributors said that the FA should take a lead and not accept that other countries have problems that are greater than ours as we still have problems at home.

I'm sure that nobody on here feels that racist chanting is acceptable here or abroad so what more could/should be done?
Demand action from FIFA/EUFA ?
Yes, that has happened already in terms of fines and behind-closed doors restrictions , both of which have financial implications for the offending countries.

What else?
Banning from a competition and/or deduction of points?
Maybe but will those countries actually do anything as they possibly see themselves as being picked upon on a matter that they feel is of no great importance in their countries?

Have France or Holland who for years have had black players complained in the way that we have?
If so, and they feel the same way, should they not think radically and set up a separate competition only for teams of countries that can prove that they buy-in to the anti-racism stance.?
In doing this would the regularly offending countries such as those in the Balkan states then possibly (you can but hope) question their own attitudes and actually do something about it?

If a joint approach of our allies is a non-starter how about something more radical?
A real statement would either be a refusal to play in these tournaments or refuse to travel and play in offending countries and surrendering the points-principles more important than points?.
That surely would draw attention and tell the world how we feel about it.

Alternatively black (and white) players could refuse to play International football until they were satisfied that all authorities had done their utmost to try to quell the racist comments-then they could choose whether and where to play.

I feel it is about time the players did more than just moan-they are wealthy young men made rich by the money spent by racists as well as non-racists so if they really did feel that what they hear is unacceptable then positive action, such as withdrawing their labour, might just result in action and make things better for other black players in the future as well as for themselves.

One further point on the domestic front.

Darren the reporter on Talksport suggested that clubs should suffer points deductions for failure to control racist comments in the same way as they, like Birmingham, have a points deduction for not controlling their finances.
I can't agree with this argument as it is the spectators(who are not necessarily club members) who make the comments and other than ejecting them from the ground and banning them for the future what else can a club do?
Should they be held responsible for every word spoken by every spectator?

Maybe they should, but I suggest this is much more difficult to control than is the case with the financial decisions which are deliberately made by club directors and employees so surely cannot be treated in the same way with a points deduction.

Another sad day for world football, something that is just a game for a bit of fun and enjoyment but once again oxf*rd by a miniscule number of people to the detriment of the many.

[Old Man Andrews]

Punishments should be in stages.

1st offence - Stadium ban and moderate fine

2nd offence - Stadium ban, large fine and points deduction

3rd offence - disqualification from the competition and large fine.

[6ft Kerplunk]

For internationals:
1st offence - Stadium ban (for the rest of whichever competition is ongoing, so even if its a friendly it would affect Euro/World Cup qualifying) and large fine.
2nd offence - Disqualification from the competition and massive fine.
3rd offence - Disqualification from the next 5 competitions.

As we've seen pathetic UEFA and FIFA fines on their own have little impact.

There needs to be a proper protocol for incidents during matches. Something like the players report it to the manager, manager speaks to 4th official who calls the ref over. Officials make it clear to supporters that if any more abuse is heard that the match is forfeited. There's enough FIFA/UEFA officials at matches for any racist abuse to be recorded and dealt with.

[Snowflake Royal]

I find the idea of punishing clubs potentially for the acts of a few individuals, who may or may not have any serious connection to the club and they have no hope of controlling deeply uncomfortable.

What's to stop a Scotland fan going to an England game and racially abusing someone to get England a points deduction / fine / crowd ban etc? As an example?

I'm more comfortable with punished clubs etc for repeated offences and / or failing to take reasonable steps against individuals identified as committing offences.

But ultimately, this isn't a football problem. It's a societal problem and you can't expect FIFA / UEFA / FA to solve the problem of World / European / British societal racism.

[KentRoyal]

Ik this is probably old news but Pavel Pogrebnyak (remember him?) has been fined and given a suspended warning for claiming that is is a disgrace for black players to be in the Russian national team

[Sanguine]

We can't expect UEFA/FIFA to solve societal problems with racism, but we can and should expect them to put vast amounts of pressure on clubs and countries to deal with it in football grounds.

Punishments should of course be on a gradually escalating scale - but they should escalate and they shouldn't be limited to fines and stadium closures.

[Franchise FC]

Punishments should be in stages.

1st offence - Stadium ban and moderate fine

2nd offence - Stadium ban, large fine and points deduction

3rd offence - disqualification from the competition and large fine.

By stadium ban do you mean behind closed doors.

I don't like this as it punishes the away fans as well. For me it should be making the team play home games away.

[6ft Kerplunk]

I find the idea of punishing clubs potentially for the acts of a few individuals, who may or may not have any serious connection to the club and they have no hope of controlling deeply uncomfortable.

I do kind of agree and get where you're coming from but the problem is as we've seen over the years doing little other than a fine and playing a game or two behind closed doors has little impact. Its just a typical football authority response to serious issues. Punish so it looks like you're doing something but never enough to properly upset the system. See financial fair play, Birmingham's points deduction etc etc.

[Old Man Andrews]

Punishments should be in stages.

1st offence - Stadium ban and moderate fine

2nd offence - Stadium ban, large fine and points deduction

3rd offence - disqualification from the competition and large fine.

By stadium ban do you mean behind closed doors.

I don't like this as it punishes the away fans as well. For me it should be making the team play home games away.

Yeah behind closed doors, maybe at a neutral venue in a different country. If you switch games to be played at the non-racist teams ground you might get the racist supporters turning up in numbers causing issues outside the ground and a lot of people could get hurt, especially if the two countries in question are close together. Poland and Germany for example. Would be a nightmare if the game was switched. Behind closed doors in a neutral venue would be my preference.

[Winston Biscuit]

Venue has to be a different continent though

Once you factor in the Rhythm and Pulse factor, the Rungrado 1st of May Stadium would be a decent venue

[Silver Fox]

I find the idea of punishing clubs potentially for the acts of a few individuals, who may or may not have any serious connection to the club and they have no hope of controlling deeply uncomfortable.

What's to stop a Scotland fan going to an England game and racially abusing someone to get England a points deduction / fine / crowd ban etc? As an example?

While I agree with this a bit in some cases (run on pitch and beat up own player if it means that your rivals will be deducted points) in the case of racist abuse the problems that the authorities are looking to sort out aren't lone offenders but whole crowds dishing out sustained abuse

[Snowflake Royal]

I find the idea of punishing clubs potentially for the acts of a few individuals, who may or may not have any serious connection to the club and they have no hope of controlling deeply uncomfortable.

What's to stop a Scotland fan going to an England game and racially abusing someone to get England a points deduction / fine / crowd ban etc? As an example?

While I agree with this a bit in some cases (run on pitch and beat up own player if it means that your rivals will be deducted points) in the case of racist abuse the problems that the authorities are looking to sort out aren't lone offenders but whole crowds dishing out sustained abuse

Oh yeah, there are degrees of all this, but that makes it all the more important to not use a blanket penalty.

And as I said, it's a societal issue. You can't expect the Polish FA to resolve Poland's racism problems just because they also manifest in the stands.

[stealthpapes]

I find the idea of punishing clubs potentially for the acts of a few individuals, who may or may not have any serious connection to the club and they have no hope of controlling deeply uncomfortable.
.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not. Not even remotely.

In your, unlikely, example, the failure is one of the processes and procedures of safely running a football ground more than it is wee Jimmy deciding to be a oxf*rd for the day.

Hit the clubs, FAs and teams in the pocket, and hard, and you will find it be much less of a problem.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Yeah same.

Plus it will make the fans self control each other. Running on the pitch being a nob won't be seen as cool if the club loses 3 points

[Snowflake Royal]

People who run on the pitch aren't making rational decisions.

It's like trying to use life sentences to prevent crimes of passion. It doesn't factor in most offenders thinking when it happens.

They're already facing bans, fines and potentially prison. Why would they care about a club being deducted points.

The problem gets solved by tackling society, not with threats and punishments for someone not actually committing the offence.