Back from the Game - Southampton

[Royal Lady]

Thames sat down on the front row for the whole of the second half. So why he's going on about standing up, I do not know.

[Seal]

Doesn't this whole debate and the way Seal has neatly encapsulated things - just act as a yet another powerful argument for separate areas for safe-standing and for seating?

Or in the short term, even just more organised seating arrangements by the club. Like the model JSC tries to employ himself, why couldn't the club try some sort of unofficial 'sitters' and 'singers' sections for away games. If you are a 'seater' you get sold tickets in the front of the stand, 'singers' at the back.

Probably a quicker solution than waiting for the perenial safe-standing argument to be resolved, and could be directly controlled by the club. If it doesn't work, they can just stop it.

At Leicester they had exactly that - a block where there was an unwritten agreement that standing regulations wouldn't be enforced. It worked beautifully, with a grand total of zero injuries - but once the knowledge spread too far and the FLA got wind of it LCFC were threatened with loss of their licence and it was scrapped.

At another Championship club they currently have an "organiser" who keeps track of how long standing in a specific block has been going on - as long as it's under what has been agreed with the stadium authorities as not being "persistent" then that's fine.

There are ways around it where there's a will - and as demonstrated by lots of other sets of supporters - if enough people want to stand en masse there is no way to stop them. At Reading we don't have that critical mass of people who would make it happen.

That's the issue - there will never be a critical mass of Reading fans wanting to stand away from home, but there will be a significant number. Therefore if this group (I would guess somewhere between 20-50% depending on the fixture) were given the ability to choose seats at the back, it could mean that everyone was catered for, and arguments like this would hopefully be reduced.

I'm not sure it could ever work at home (issues with season tickets etc), but would be a lot more managable with away tickets as a trial run.

EDIT: Having just read Northern Somerset's post, even just unreserved seating at away games would be a start, and see if the fans can sort it out amongst themselves.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

EDIT: Having just read Northern Somerset's post, even just unreserved seating at away games would be a start, and see if the fans can sort it out amongst themselves.

the problem with that is that the sort of person more likely to want to stand and sing is also more likely to be the kind of person who'll want to say drinking beer until the last moment rather than find a seat.

[3 veesinarow]

EDIT: Having just read Northern Somerset's post, even just unreserved seating at away games would be a start, and see if the fans can sort it out amongst themselves.

the problem with that is that the sort of person more likely to want to stand and sing is also more likely to be the kind of person who'll want to say drinking beer until the last moment rather than find a seat.

As exemplified perfectly yesterday by the four lads in the row in front of us who shuffled along their row to their seats ten minutes after kick-off, then back five minutes before half-time, then back 10 minutes after half-time, all the while, of course, causing the entire row to have to stand to let them past... Honestly, if they saw an hour of the game, they were lucky. Why not just stay in the fcuking pub and save yourself the £24 to spend on even more beer?

[rabidbee]

Why oh why does anyone give a toss about the "quality" or merits of our supporters? It simply doesn't matter.

I was amused by the family in front of us who had a picnic and then put a picnic blanket over their legs. The mother asked RL "why are we singing Seaside?" When she explained it as Cisse, she asked "why are they singing that".

Totally plastic but, frankly, so what? They pay their money and can do what they like. They shouldn't be expected to conform to some no colours, standing only stereotype if they don't want to.

Jesus - are you sure it wasn't the cast of the Fast Show secretly filming a comeback?

("Bergkamp can't play for Holland, because what if Arsenal play in Europe, ey? Ey?")

[FiNeRaIn]

Why oh why does anyone give a toss about the "quality" or merits of our supporters? It simply doesn't matter.

I was amused by the family in front of us who had a picnic and then put a picnic blanket over their legs. The mother asked RL "why are we singing Seaside?" When she explained it as Cisse, she asked "why are they singing that".

Totally plastic but, frankly, so what? They pay their money and can do what they like. They shouldn't be expected to conform to some no colours, standing only stereotype if they don't want to.

It matters to those who enjoy the spirit and atmosphere of football. Reading are one of the FEW clubs who have no respect for footballing tradition or saturday football culture. Its fine, you pay your money and you are entitled to your opinion and how you behave at games, so are all the other people who pay their money. It is my opnion id rather be stood with loud passionate supporters intent on having a good time rather than happy clappers who think we are real madrid fans- there to be entertained. Atmosphere is one of the components that made english football so respected, all seater stadiums and fans like readings( the majority) are killing it. I await the response of people that disagree with me, its expected as you are probably part of problem. Go up and down the country and ask differant sets of supporters what their opinions are and what fanbases they have the most respect for- we will almost never be mentioned, not that it bothers you.

[rabidbee]

2 games in 3 days has nothing to do with it then?

Its their job, that is what they are paid to do.

Why change a successful and decent team, to the one yesterday, there was no need.

I made that comment once Mrs B and was shot down in flames. Some Wolves player was on SSN earlier saying how a lot of people don't realise that professional players can't have a proper Xmas like everyone else. If Schards was earning £15k+ a week, I think I'd get over it, to be honest.

Beautiful non-sequiter there, RL.

Everyone writes as if the players positively refuse to play two games in a row, when it is Coppell's decision, not the players'. The changes were made because certain players would not be fresh, and Coppell didn't want to disadvantage the tem by playing below-par players. Obviously - as Doyle, Rosenior, SHunt, Ivar, Duberry and Federici would tell you - there's nothing to stop a pro player playing 180 (190, tee hee) minutes in two days; but our central midfielders, in particular, cover a lot of ground, and Coppell obviously felt that picking two fresh players was the better option. NHunt always covers a lot of ground, but I preume he was dropped as much because he hasn't been as effective in the last few games as earlier in the season.

[Ian Royal]

Having been to most away games this season I have been amused at how on the pre match threads there is much talk of standing throughout the game but in reality most of those who remain standing after the kick off sit down meekly when told by stewards. There have been one or two exceptions but mostly those lads have been swiftly ejected from the ground sometimes (eg Preston) before the KO and often (eg Ipswich & Watford) in the first half. Personally although I have been supporting for as long as GC unlike him I prefer standing but generally follow the crowd around me. The same applies to singing which is difficult if those around you are silent.

The problem yesterday was undoubtedly the big turnout coupled with reserved seats. The away games this season where there has been the loudest support have been those like Bristol City, Cardiff and Birmingham where there was unreserved seating and we should lobby STAR and the Club to introduce that for all away games.

Going back to Ian Royals reply to my Marek comments on an earlier post you are surely saying exactly the same thing in a different way. In the 3511 system he would have two ho;lding midfielders behind him so i do not follow your point. Although the fact is he was totally ineffective yesterday even when he had the ball. I also felt yesterday that we really miss Dave Kitson who was able to hold the ball up much better than our existing strike force. We get away with it when our midfield play well but when they go AWOL like yesterday the back 4 are under constant pressure.

Possibly similar points from slightly different angles, but there's no point getting into it here.

[rabidbee]

The problem yesterday was undoubtedly the big turnout coupled with reserved seats. The away games this season where there has been the loudest support have been those like Bristol City, Cardiff and Birmingham where there was unreserved seating and we should lobby STAR and the Club to introduce that for all away games.

It's not the club's decision to make, though. Anyway, unreserved seating isn't necessarilly the panacea some suggest it is, as the pissed-up lads also tend to arrive late, having stayed in the pub until the last minute. If they arrive to find that the upper end of the stadium is already largely full would they therefore sit down considerately nearer the front? Or not?

[rfcjoe]

I honestly dont care, they are paid a hell of alot of money every week. They train through the week anyway, so surely them playing an extra game doesnt make a difference.

There is no excuse for the way we played yesterday, apart from the fact that Coppell chose the wrong team.

Now going to have a rant about people standing up..

Unfortunately yesterday I was stuck behind the most obnoxious bloke ever. There was a group of about 5, they decided to stand near enough the whole of the first half, when we had a free kick they stood, which meant I couldn't see, and nor could the people behind me, by then I was on the verge of causing a very big argument, but I decided to tap the fella on the shoulder and ask him to sit down, which straight away he apologised and sat down, I honestly think he realised he was obstructing peoples views and decided to sit like the rest of us.

Anyway his very childish friend decided to make rather childish comments throughout the rest of the game about how he needed to make sure he was sitting otherwise he would be told off again. Very pathetic

I honestly have no problems with people standing when there is a good moment in a game, but not throughout the whole of the match. I paid £24 to watch a game and not the guys back infront.

I was sat one row up from you and a few seats along and I saw the bloke - ginger weren't he?

He was arguing with the noooooobs behind me.

[Schards#2]

Why oh why does anyone give a toss about the "quality" or merits of our supporters? It simply doesn't matter.

I was amused by the family in front of us who had a picnic and then put a picnic blanket over their legs. The mother asked RL "why are we singing Seaside?" When she explained it as Cisse, she asked "why are they singing that".

Totally plastic but, frankly, so what? They pay their money and can do what they like. They shouldn't be expected to conform to some no colours, standing only stereotype if they don't want to.

It matters to those who enjoy the spirit and atmosphere of football. Reading are one of the FEW clubs who have no respect for footballing tradition or saturday football culture. Its fine, you pay your money and you are entitled to your opinion and how you behave at games, so are all the other people who pay their money. It is my opnion id rather be stood with loud passionate supporters intent on having a good time rather than happy clappers who think we are real madrid fans- there to be entertained. Atmosphere is one of the components that made english football so respected, all seater stadiums and fans like readings( the majority) are killing it. I await the response of people that disagree with me, its expected as you are probably part of problem. Go up and down the country and ask differant sets of supporters what their opinions are and what fanbases they have the most respect for- we will almost never be mentioned, not that it bothers you.

I believe in a lot of what you believe in but I also believe in respect for others. If you doing what you want is going to ruin the match for others, who have no option to go elsewhere, then you shouldn't do it.

Back in the 70's/80's there were stands and terraces and you had your choice. It's not like that anymore so everyone is lumped in together.

If I go to a game by train with no kids or aged parents, I prefer to stand and sing but I would never do this at the expense of anyone else and when it's designated seating and sold out it IS at the expense of others.

A sensible solution would be to designate the back 15 rows as potentially standing but this will never happen as it means the club condoning a breach of the law. So the only alternatives are to put up with it on the occassions this is a problem (few this season), or be an inconsiderate fan and do as you like anyway.

[rabidbee]

It matters to those who enjoy the spirit and atmosphere of football. Reading are one of the FEW clubs who have no respect for footballing tradition or saturday football culture. Its fine, you pay your money and you are entitled to your opinion and how you behave at games, so are all the other people who pay their money. It is my opnion id rather be stood with loud passionate supporters intent on having a good time rather than happy clappers who think we are real madrid fans- there to be entertained. Atmosphere is one of the components that made english football so respected, all seater stadiums and fans like readings( the majority) are killing it. I await the response of people that disagree with me, its expected as you are probably part of problem. Go up and down the country and ask differant sets of supporters what their opinions are and what fanbases they have the most respect for- we will almost never be mentioned, not that it bothers you.

You're only referring to one of a number of traditions - as has been pointed out, Reading were never like that. Can't say that it bothers me how other teams think either. I'd rather the Mad Stad was like Anfield on a big European Cup night every game, but it isn't, it never was and it never will be. But then, that kind of atmosphere is only one aspect of watching footbal that I enjoy, the principle part being... well, the football. So, I shall continue to watch football in the manner that I enjoy it - standing until told to sit when I can get a seat on the back row, singing when there is singing, not if I can't be arsed, and hopefully not inconveniencing any other Reading fans - and I'll let others get on with enjoying their day out in whatever manner they prefer, so long as it doesn't inconvenience me.

If you don't like the atmosphere at Reading games, just stop going; headup to Ibrox instead. Judging by the antics of the Hun in Manchester this summer, you'd no doubt greatly enjoy it. Not that many people would describe what they got up to as "respectable".

[Royal Lady]

Rabidbee - I wasn't talking about players not playing - I was talking about the age old excuse oft brought out that the players are "tired" after playing two games in 3 days or whatever. My opinion, albeit in the minority, is that they shouldn't be tired - they're professional footballers and they know that there will be occasions when they have to play more than one game in a week. If they can't step up to the plate (because they're "tired") they shouldn't take the big money that comes with it.

[rfcjoe]

Rabidbee - I wasn't talking about players not playing - I was talking about the age old excuse oft brought out that the players are "tired" after playing two games in 3 days or whatever. My opinion, albeit in the minority, is that they shouldn't be tired - they're professional footballers and they know that there will be occasions when they have to play more than one game in a week. If they can't step up to the plate (because they're "tired") they shouldn't take the big money that comes with it.

'greed. These so called 'professional' footballers should be able to handle playing 2 games in 3 games - without a shadow.
I've done it before and it really doesn't have a great impact whatsoever.

[FiNeRaIn]

Judging by the antics of the Hun in Manchester this summer, you'd no doubt greatly enjoy it.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't condone violence and if you could indicate somewhere where I have said that, id be mostly grateful.
Its entirely differant being loud, passionate and having a good away following than thugs just up for a fight who aren't interested in football. Cardiffs following on friday was top class, just a shame that a few idiots spoilt it for them at the end.

[rabidbee]

Rabidbee - I wasn't talking about players not playing - I was talking about the age old excuse oft brought out that the players are "tired" after playing two games in 3 days or whatever. My opinion, albeit in the minority, is that they shouldn't be tired - they're professional footballers and they know that there will be occasions when they have to play more than one game in a week. If they can't step up to the plate (because they're "tired") they shouldn't take the big money that comes with it.

'greed. These so called 'professional' footballers should be able to handle playing 2 games in 3 games - without a shadow.
I've done it before and it really doesn't have a great impact whatsoever.

With all due respect, Joe, the top of your game is probably quite a low standard, by comparison to the top of the Championship.

I still say that the players probably could handle playing twice in two days, that's not the point. There is no doubt that they will not be fully recovered, especially the central midfielders who cover somuch ground during a game in the system that we play. Had Coppell picked Cissé and Harper, I'm sure they would have been happy to play, so I don't see why they are the ones who get criticised. Rather, Coppell decided that they wouldn't be as fit as two players who hadn't already played 90 minutes this weekend, and so preferred the latter.

It's no different as other sports, when you see those athletes who compete at a number of events suffer compared to those who don't. And, on the flipside, that's why we laud people like Mike Phelps and Ian Thorp so highly.

If it really didn't matter, then the biggest teams around the world would aim to have two full squads to pick from, and rotate regularly in order to compete. It's not only to cover for injuries, but to ensure that they can pick a fresh squad. (Nearly-)Top level sport is often decided by the tiniest margins these days. How often have we demonstrated the important edge that fitness gives a team, by playing on at a high tempo into injury time? Picking fresh players will only help that.

[rabidbee]

Contrary to popular belief, I don't condone violence

Fair enough.

[The 17 Bus]

Modern all seater stadia will never have a good atmosphere, they lack the spontaneity of terraces, big game at EP and the singing section of the South bank was able to grow, not possible in the modern stadia.

I would suggest that when the day comes that the Madstad is extended then there will still be little atmosphere, why?? because those that go on about wanting to sing and shout all want to do it from different areas, years ago it was suggested that the singing section moved to the East/North corner, pleanty of spare seats, but the lads did not want to go, then the drummer moved in, and despite some success the east/south try to sing different songs to them, well done all.

[Sarah Star]

I can see why standing would be a major inconvenience to people sitting behind (the guy who sits beside me has trouble getting to his feet and back again for instance), but do you think anyone would complain about me singing when no one else is?

Mind you, I've already seen that most Reading fans will complain about most things...including, amongst other things, the colour of someone's jacket and people eating in the stadium

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

It matters to those who enjoy the spirit and atmosphere of football. Reading are one of the FEW clubs who have no respect for footballing tradition or saturday football culture.

Nice theory, but crap. How many any clubs do respect traditions, and what exactly do they do differently? What is it exactly that Liverpool or Cardiff do that Reading FC don't?

How many grounds do you visit on your travels and are genuinely impressed by the atmosphere?

It is my opnion id rather be stood with loud passionate supporters intent on having a good time rather than happy clappers who think we are real madrid fans- there to be entertained.

There's always been both sorts, even in the good old days of the 80s and before. That's when I did the majority of my away trips, and it was clear that there'd be one part of the ground where people sung, and that was it. Nobody else sang. The idea that in the old days everybody was singing away is just a myth. The difference was that back then the home fans would almost always outsing the away fans (yes, even at Reading) while now the reverse is true.

Atmosphere is one of the components that made english football so respected, all seater stadiums and fans like readings( the majority) are killing it.

like Reading's, and like nearly every club in the football league who has moved to a shiny all-seater stadium.

Go up and down the country and ask differant sets of supporters what their opinions are and what fanbases they have the most respect for- we will almost never be mentioned, not that it bothers you.

We didn't get any respect when our home support/atmosphere was better than that of nearly every ground we went to.


What our games do lack, more than singing in my book, is a real "buzz" of excitement about games. A guy from work, who doesn't even like football that much, says he was compelled to watch the second half of the cup tie v Man Utd a couple of years ago because he could feel the atmosphere coming out the tv. There wasn't all that much singing that day, but the fans were really into the game. Back in the elm park days, fans would start signing about 20 minutes before kick-off, and carry on for about as long afterwards. We've completely lost that tradition. There's just no build up in atmosphere and expectation any more.