Hob Nob Anyone?

Donny Ironside wrote: I was about to say about emergency loan players but reading that it seems only Goalkeepers are allowed for that criteria.

I find it extremely ridiculous that a player could play 5 EFL Trophy nothing games and be "established".

Yeah agree but there is a clause about Championship standard competition. So I would imagine that if our academy were in the competition those games may not count but they would towards a total of a player on loan (or vice versa).

Anyway, players under contract to Reading who are both over 21 and have had at least 5 starts are:

Holmes
Morrison
McIntyre
Moore
Halilovic
Rinomhota
Swift
Meite
Ejaria
Joao
Araruna
Rahman
Hoilett
Laurent
Rafael
Puscas
Dann
Drinkwater
Dele-Bashiru
McNulty
Southwood

So 21 - as all others were under 21 at the end of June. Azeez and Bristow have both made more than 5 apps though, so that could be the bone of contention but will still leave us 1 spot.

So it "feels" like we were working to use up all 24 spots for established players and the striker was the last piece, as was taking longer to sort out than the others but the EFL made it clear they wouldn't sanction it, so we are back to being in discussion with them.

Stranded wrote:

Donny Ironside wrote: I was about to say about emergency loan players but reading that it seems only Goalkeepers are allowed for that criteria.

I find it extremely ridiculous that a player could play 5 EFL Trophy nothing games and be "established".

Yeah agree but there is a clause about Championship standard competition. So I would imagine that if our academy were in the competition those games may not count but they would towards a total of a player on loan (or vice versa).

Anyway, players under contract to Reading who are both over 21 and have had at least 5 starts are:

Holmes
Morrison
McIntyre
Moore
Halilovic
Rinomhota
Swift
Meite
Ejaria
Joao
Araruna
Rahman
Hoilett
Laurent
Rafael
Puscas
Dann
Drinkwater
Dele-Bashiru
McNulty
Southwood

So 21 - as all others were under 21 at the end of June. Azeez and Bristow have both made more than 5 apps though, so that could be the bone of contention but will still leave us 1 spot.

So it "feels" like we were working to use up all 24 spots for established players and the striker was the last piece, as was taking longer to sort out than the others but the EFL made it clear they wouldn't sanction it, so we are back to being in discussion with them.

Plus Yiadom

Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

Zip wrote:
Plus Yiadom

Thanks. Knew I'd miss someone but yes, so that makes 22 or 24 if the EFL are choosing to include Brisow and Azeez as counting despite both being u21 at the cut off point.

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

Well we've got no one new off the wage bill and signed 6, so I've no reason to think January would be any different.

We need to sell. Still.

They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

Stranded wrote:

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

in terms of revenue recognition, would things like the Stadium naming rights and new SCL 5 year deal change that equation at all - or is it all peanuts compared to the wage bill we will still be bearing?

Linden Jones' Tash wrote:

Stranded wrote:

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

in terms of revenue recognition, would things like the Stadium naming rights and new SCL 5 year deal change that equation at all - or is it all peanuts compared to the wage bill we will still be bearing?

No idea, we'll only know how much they are worth when the accounts get published. Worth noting that the P&S calcs will have buffers/calculations added to them which will take into account the fact that there were no crowds last year and clubs lost money due to the pandemic. I have no idea what that may but for example a 20m FFP loss for last season may be considered the same as a 15m loss in normal seasons*.

*numbers pulled out of my arse.

Stranded wrote:

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

So are you saying we could be deducted 9 points and still remain under a transfer embargo? Not sure why but I thought that once you had taken a points deduction the slate was wiped clean.

I am not sure how our situation compares with Sheffield Wednesday but I know they had a points deduction and now they’re allowed to sign players.

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)

blythspartan wrote:

Stranded wrote:

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

So are you saying we could be deducted 9 points and still remain under a transfer embargo? Not sure why but I thought that once you had taken a points deduction the slate was wiped clean.

I am not sure how our situation compares with Sheffield Wednesday but I know they had a points deduction and now they’re allowed to sign players.

I believe that it is possible, though unlikely, hence the embargo now.

3points wrote:

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)

We need to remember that headline losses are not P&S losses and there is also additional calculations to be taken into account due to the pandemic which will lessen the P&S losses further.

EDIT: Players out on loan are definitely included in your squad calculation - if we were able, we would have been better served cancelling his contract but by loaning him his wages are removed from our budget (or at least offset by income from the loaning club) - assuming we aren't covering all his wages of course.

Stranded wrote:

3points wrote:

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)

We need to remember that headline losses are not P&S losses and there is also additional calculations to be taken into account due to the pandemic which will lessen the P&S losses further.

At this rate we will be making huge profits.

Linden Jones' Tash wrote:

Stranded wrote:

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

in terms of revenue recognition, would things like the Stadium naming rights and new SCL 5 year deal change that equation at all - or is it all peanuts compared to the wage bill we will still be bearing?

not sure half a million quid or whatever it is is really going to cut it enough

Stranded wrote:

3points wrote:

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:They may look at our 'new' wage structure and see if its deemed sustainable by EFL and raise / lower the limit to a different random number. I think we will see many more teams in our situation next summer

I dont know why it was 8.5k - is that the leagues average wage? Wouldn't be surprised if it was just an arbitrary number pulled out from a rectum.

From my knowledge, the club will have submitted a budget to the EFL for this season. They will have figured out how much "headroom" we have in the P&S spending rules (when looking at the past 2 years) then said something like "you can sign six players at no more than £8,500 each" which will bring you up to / close to the spending limit for the season. However, given the size of the loss in the 19/20 season of £45m it is still very difficult to see how we will get back to the £39m of accumulated losses over three years by just letting go a few players each season, and then bringing in a load more.

FWIW - I don't think McNulty would be included in our list of 24 players, but any contribution we're still making towards his wages while on loan would be part of the P&S budget calculations.

I have to say I am always amazed at the amount of players that Forest can bring in each year. They always seem to have massive squads. Presumably they pay the players peanuts compared to us! Read on Twitter yesterday that Forest have brought in 81 players since 2017. Wonder how many we've done in that time (this includes inward loan signings)

We need to remember that headline losses are not P&S losses and there is also additional calculations to be taken into account due to the pandemic which will lessen the P&S losses further.

EDIT: Players out on loan are definitely included in your squad calculation - if we were able, we would have been better served cancelling his contract but by loaning him his wages are removed from our budget (or at least offset by income from the loaning club) - assuming we aren't covering all his wages of course.

this is true but the costs of the academy, Bearwood development, etc will not fundamentally change a wage to revenue ratio of >200%. Net cost of a Cat 1 academy is about £3m per year (which is deducted for P&S)

Simmops wrote:

Tilehurstsouthbank wrote:

Simmops wrote: What?

Sorry have I lost you somewhere? I didn't think I was speaking Swahili but I can dumb things down a bit if you like?
Basically you asked who I was. I have been posting on HNA for over a decade. Last season I barely logged in tbh, but I'm fairly regular otherwise. We've had discussions before. That's how I know what an enigma you are.

I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.

Seriously we have interacted before, usually pretty cordial. Do you give someone else access to your account? Maybe they were the one I interacted with if so.

Tilehurstsouthbank wrote:

Simmops wrote:

Tilehurstsouthbank wrote:
Sorry have I lost you somewhere? I didn't think I was speaking Swahili but I can dumb things down a bit if you like?
Basically you asked who I was. I have been posting on HNA for over a decade. Last season I barely logged in tbh, but I'm fairly regular otherwise. We've had discussions before. That's how I know what an enigma you are.

I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.

Seriously we have interacted before, usually pretty cordial. Do you give someone else access to your account? Maybe they were the one I interacted with if so.

Simmops wrote:

Tilehurstsouthbank wrote:

Simmops wrote:
I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.

Seriously we have interacted before, usually pretty cordial. Do you give someone else access to your account? Maybe they were the one I interacted with if so.

Last I'll say. You've either got amnesia or are the worst Wum ever.

Stranded wrote:

Hound wrote:Wonder how long this embargo is for as well. Do we come out of it if we behave ourselves this season? Was it just for this window or are we restricted to 8.5k contracts all year?

It’d be nice to know really. Guess they prob aren’t keen on sharing that info mind you

If I read the rules right, the embargo exists because with the submitted estimate of accounts it looks like we may breach the rules fully (and therefore be liable to a points deduction) so I would assume it would only get released if and when it becomes clear that the embargo has stopped that happening.

Otherwise, we may well be in a situation where we are embargoed and have points taken off either later this season or more likely next.

The embargo in itself definitely won’t stop us breaking the 39m over 3 year loss limit or get anywhere close I doubt

I’m assuming we’re in embargo instead of a points deduction and if we play nicely then we won’t get fined the points

Do we stay like this until our seasons losses are under control or until we don’t break 39m over 3 years? Be interesting to know but could well be in this embargo for the long term