Hob Nob Anyone?

Nameless wrote:

Stranded wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:According to ITK Eddie on Twitter we are looking to ship Tom McIntyre out on loan. Baffling that. Cant see how the new manager has seen enough of him to decide that given he was away on international duty for a good bit.

A loan could be perfect for him, I do not see that as a negative at all - season playing week in/week out for say Oxford would be better than waiting for a chance here. Would think it leaves us short at the back as per my earlier points though.

Not baffling, I bet McIntyre will have been waiting outside the manager’s door !
It could be the loan is actually designed to let McIntyre get a season playing every week somewhere else. Needs to be at a decent club, maybe a year in Germany would be good for him ?
Would also allow Holmes to be closer to the first team having done hisloan spell last season

Suggestion currently is McIntyre to be loaned to a top end division 3 (League 1) team.

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Stranded wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:According to ITK Eddie on Twitter we are looking to ship Tom McIntyre out on loan. Baffling that. Cant see how the new manager has seen enough of him to decide that given he was away on international duty for a good bit.

A loan could be perfect for him, I do not see that as a negative at all - season playing week in/week out for say Oxford would be better than waiting for a chance here. Would think it leaves us short at the back as per my earlier points though.

He isnt exactly waiting for a chance though is he? Being 3rd choice CB. Thats a fantastic position for a young CB looking to add minutes to his game. Loaning another clubs talented CB so we can send our own talented CB away is a nonsense.

He should be playing higher than Oxford. He was performing better than Moore at the end of last season ffs.

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Stranded wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:According to ITK Eddie on Twitter we are looking to ship Tom McIntyre out on loan. Baffling that. Cant see how the new manager has seen enough of him to decide that given he was away on international duty for a good bit.

A loan could be perfect for him, I do not see that as a negative at all - season playing week in/week out for say Oxford would be better than waiting for a chance here. Would think it leaves us short at the back as per my earlier points though.

He isnt exactly waiting for a chance though is he? Being 3rd choice CB. Thats a fantastic position for a young CB looking to add minutes to his game. Loaning another clubs talented CB so we can send our own talented CB away is a nonsense.

3rd choice isn't playing is it? If he goes to L1 he will likely be a starter and get 90 mins more often than not. We can put in a break clause to bring him back in Jan if needs be but I think this is a positive move - as long as we get him tied down to a new deal first.

Stranded wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Stranded wrote:
A loan could be perfect for him, I do not see that as a negative at all - season playing week in/week out for say Oxford would be better than waiting for a chance here. Would think it leaves us short at the back as per my earlier points though.

He isnt exactly waiting for a chance though is he? Being 3rd choice CB. Thats a fantastic position for a young CB looking to add minutes to his game. Loaning another clubs talented CB so we can send our own talented CB away is a nonsense.

3rd choice isn't playing is it? If he goes to L1 he will likely be a starter and get 90 mins more often than not. We can put in a break clause to bring him back in Jan if needs be but I think this is a positive move - as long as we get him tied down to a new deal first.

I reckon you are over valuing loans and undervaluing being the 3rd choice CB. For one the club we loan him to had to be right. Just playing isnt the be all and end all. Of course if Tom is banging on the managers door saying "I need minutes, let me go out on loan" then that is different but currently I agree with Ian, the difference between Moore and McIntyre is not so much that McIntyre couldn't realistically take his starting spot this season by impressing in cameos and on the training pitch.

Snowflake Royal wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Stranded wrote:
A loan could be perfect for him, I do not see that as a negative at all - season playing week in/week out for say Oxford would be better than waiting for a chance here. Would think it leaves us short at the back as per my earlier points though.

He isnt exactly waiting for a chance though is he? Being 3rd choice CB. Thats a fantastic position for a young CB looking to add minutes to his game. Loaning another clubs talented CB so we can send our own talented CB away is a nonsense.

He should be playing higher than Oxford. He was performing better than Moore at the end of last season ffs.

Not sure that is a great marker tbf Ian

Maybe the twin loan transactions are good for all parties.

McIntyre gets regular game time, probably competing for promotion in L1, instead of being 3rd choice on the bench. We get to see one of our most promising prospects develop with game time.

The Gibson loan ensures we're not short on cover. It's also better for Gibson and Everton; 3rd choice here and a chance to unseat Moore or Morrison is better than 5th choice or so at Everton.

All makes sense to me. The key thing is we get McIntyre to extend his contract before sending him on loan and put in a recall clause for January.

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Stranded wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote: He isnt exactly waiting for a chance though is he? Being 3rd choice CB. Thats a fantastic position for a young CB looking to add minutes to his game. Loaning another clubs talented CB so we can send our own talented CB away is a nonsense.

3rd choice isn't playing is it? If he goes to L1 he will likely be a starter and get 90 mins more often than not. We can put in a break clause to bring him back in Jan if needs be but I think this is a positive move - as long as we get him tied down to a new deal first.

I reckon you are over valuing loans and undervaluing being the 3rd choice CB. For one the club we loan him to had to be right. Just playing isnt the be all and end all. Of course if Tom is banging on the managers door saying "I need minutes, let me go out on loan" then that is different but currently I agree with Ian, the difference between Moore and McIntyre is not so much that McIntyre couldn't realistically take his starting spot this season by impressing in cameos and on the training pitch.

He’ll be wanting to play every week.
I think what happens next is really crucial. If he doesn’t get a good loan move (or a starting place for us) I wonder whether he’ll look at Loader’s example and decide to move on next summer.
Not suggesting he should be given a starting place to stop him thinking he needs to move, more highlighting how hard it is to keep young, talented players happy when they want and need to be playing and think they should be.

If he renews his contract I completely support this. Why should we keep him as our fourth choice when he can be first choice for a club doing well in league one?

Nameless wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Stranded wrote:
3rd choice isn't playing is it? If he goes to L1 he will likely be a starter and get 90 mins more often than not. We can put in a break clause to bring him back in Jan if needs be but I think this is a positive move - as long as we get him tied down to a new deal first.

I reckon you are over valuing loans and undervaluing being the 3rd choice CB. For one the club we loan him to had to be right. Just playing isnt the be all and end all. Of course if Tom is banging on the managers door saying "I need minutes, let me go out on loan" then that is different but currently I agree with Ian, the difference between Moore and McIntyre is not so much that McIntyre couldn't realistically take his starting spot this season by impressing in cameos and on the training pitch.

He’ll be wanting to play every week.
I think what happens next is really crucial. If he doesn’t get a good loan move (or a starting place for us) I wonder whether he’ll look at Loader’s example and decide to move on next summer.
Not suggesting he should be given a starting place to stop him thinking he needs to move, more highlighting how hard it is to keep young, talented players happy when they want and need to be playing and think they should be.

For every loan of this sort, which I am going to call a development loan, that suceeds at a minimum 10 fail. Bet there is more examples of 3rd choice CBs breaking into the team than there is CBs who go out on loan and come back straight into the first team.

To cover myself here I mean that they succeed at their parent club. You see lots of players go out on these types of loans who then just leave the parent club after and go on to have good careers. Like Cooper.

Hound wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote: He isnt exactly waiting for a chance though is he? Being 3rd choice CB. Thats a fantastic position for a young CB looking to add minutes to his game. Loaning another clubs talented CB so we can send our own talented CB away is a nonsense.

He should be playing higher than Oxford. He was performing better than Moore at the end of last season ffs.

Not sure that is a great marker tbf Ian

You seem happy enough for Moore to play now.

McIntyre proved he was good enough to be in the first team. I can understand Holmes being loaned out but not him.
We should be trusting in him to play alongside Morrison.

Snowflake Royal wrote:

Hound wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote: He should be playing higher than Oxford. He was performing better than Moore at the end of last season ffs.

Not sure that is a great marker tbf Ian

You seem happy enough for Moore to play now.

Ish. I’ve constantly brought up that I don’t think Moore/Morrison is a good pair

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Nameless wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote: I reckon you are over valuing loans and undervaluing being the 3rd choice CB. For one the club we loan him to had to be right. Just playing isnt the be all and end all. Of course if Tom is banging on the managers door saying "I need minutes, let me go out on loan" then that is different but currently I agree with Ian, the difference between Moore and McIntyre is not so much that McIntyre couldn't realistically take his starting spot this season by impressing in cameos and on the training pitch.

He’ll be wanting to play every week.
I think what happens next is really crucial. If he doesn’t get a good loan move (or a starting place for us) I wonder whether he’ll look at Loader’s example and decide to move on next summer.
Not suggesting he should be given a starting place to stop him thinking he needs to move, more highlighting how hard it is to keep young, talented players happy when they want and need to be playing and think they should be.

For every loan of this sort, which I am going to call a development loan, that suceeds at a minimum 10 fail. Bet there is more examples of 3rd choice CBs breaking into the team than there is CBs who go out on loan and come back straight into the first team.

To cover myself here I mean that they succeed at their parent club. You see lots of players go out on these types of loans who then just leave the parent club after and go on to have good careers. Like Cooper.

Dickie, Stacey.........

All I'm going to say on this for now is we have been through this before. Cooper, Dickie and Hyam all shown the loan door rather than given first team action, all left and all are doing well.

Play our oxf*rd academy players instead of developing those from other clubs.

Lower West wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Nameless wrote:
He’ll be wanting to play every week.
I think what happens next is really crucial. If he doesn’t get a good loan move (or a starting place for us) I wonder whether he’ll look at Loader’s example and decide to move on next summer.
Not suggesting he should be given a starting place to stop him thinking he needs to move, more highlighting how hard it is to keep young, talented players happy when they want and need to be playing and think they should be.

For every loan of this sort, which I am going to call a development loan, that suceeds at a minimum 10 fail. Bet there is more examples of 3rd choice CBs breaking into the team than there is CBs who go out on loan and come back straight into the first team.

To cover myself here I mean that they succeed at their parent club. You see lots of players go out on these types of loans who then just leave the parent club after and go on to have good careers. Like Cooper.

Dickie, Stacey.........

They didn't succeed here??. Thats exactly my point!!

Owner obviously wants promotion as the be and end all. Developing a tight knit squad for the future isn't even a thought.

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Lower West wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote: For every loan of this sort, which I am going to call a development loan, that suceeds at a minimum 10 fail. Bet there is more examples of 3rd choice CBs breaking into the team than there is CBs who go out on loan and come back straight into the first team.

To cover myself here I mean that they succeed at their parent club. You see lots of players go out on these types of loans who then just leave the parent club after and go on to have good careers. Like Cooper.

Dickie, Stacey.........

They didn't succeed here??. Thats exactly my point!!

How many loan players have passed through our club in the past 5 seasons. Have we progressed and improved as a team with a clear identity. Or are we simply a live version of Championship manager?

Lower West wrote:

NewCorkSeth wrote:

Lower West wrote:
Dickie, Stacey.........

They didn't succeed here??. Thats exactly my point!!

How many loan players have passed through our club in the past 5 seasons. Have we progressed and improved as a team with a clear identity. Or are we simply a live version of Championship manager?

Sorry i don't understand the question. What do you mean?

On balance I think for McIntyre to go out on loan is a good thing.
He is nearly 22 and has only played a dozen or so times for our first team in 4 years as a pro and although when I have seen him play he has done quite well I would add that he has done quite well based on being an inexperienced player but none of the performances suggest to me that he is pressing hard for a regular first team place.

You never know how young players will develop and at what pace so we just have to trust our manager and coaches that Gibson is far enough ahead at this stage to push for a starting place.

The club has shown recently that young players will be given a chance and great faith has been placed in Olise so they must have doubts about McIntyre to bring Gibson in, presumably ahead of him.

NewCorkSeth wrote:All I'm going to say on this for now is we have been through this before. Cooper, Dickie and Hyam all shown the loan door rather than given first team action, all left and all are doing well.

Play our oxf*rd academy players instead of developing those from other clubs.

McIntyre too injury prone to rely on as third choice

Better for him to develop mentally and physically at another club rather than sit on our bench here, play the occasional game, whilst picking up more injuries