Official RFC Clownovic Day. The protest thread

[Snowflake Royal]

The cost of sacking him today would literally be the cost of his wages until the summer. Which we would obviously no longer have to pay.

Which is exactly why I have said it might not be possible at this time, because it will be an invoice for February and a payment all at once.

Similar to how many of our deals are structured, we didn't give Inter Milan and Sheffield Wednesday a £7.5m and £5m cheque for George Puscas and Lucas Joao outright, we are paying for these deals over the course of their contracts. Ultimately, it didn't matter because we broke FFP regulations anyway, but that's something we have to factor in as well, so it might not be entirely possible right now.

The outcome is the same, but there are ways of getting there and sacking him, today, tomorrow, next week etc, might not be possible right now.

We could put him on gardening leave and the payments wouldn't change. Whatever way you look at it, FFP isn't stopping us from sacking him, but it might be making it difficult to find a suitable replacement.

the attempt at excuse finding is getting really pathetic.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Which is exactly why I have said it might not be possible at this time, because it will be an invoice for February and a payment all at once.

Similar to how many of our deals are structured, we didn't give Inter Milan and Sheffield Wednesday a £7.5m and £5m cheque for George Puscas and Lucas Joao outright, we are paying for these deals over the course of their contracts. Ultimately, it didn't matter because we broke FFP regulations anyway, but that's something we have to factor in as well, so it might not be entirely possible right now.

The outcome is the same, but there are ways of getting there and sacking him, today, tomorrow, next week etc, might not be possible right now.

We could put him on gardening leave and the payments wouldn't change. Whatever way you look at it, FFP isn't stopping us from sacking him, but it might be making it difficult to find a suitable replacement.

the attempt at excuse finding is getting really pathetic.

Not exactly though is it because the post has mentioned exactly why gardening leave might not be a suitable option either. End up paying for 2 manager's wages when we'd only have 1 in charge of the club.

Again, given one of the factors is to reduce our total wage bill, that might not be practicable to our current business plan that was agreed to the EFL.

[Hendo]

You're rather understating the position.

We've lost more than half our games this season, had our worst ever FA Cup result and our worst home defeat since the war in the same week, are on a run of 2 wins in 16 having lost 5 league games in a row.

Few doesn't really cut it.

It's worse than Rodgers. It's worse than Stam, Gomes, Burns, Clarke, McDermott or Clement. It's not far off Bullivant.

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

Not compared to that loss rate.

Loss rate:

Tommy Burns - 44.11%
Brendan Rodgers - 47.83%
Jose Gomes - 39.47%
Paul Clement - 50.00%
Steve Clarke - 37.74%
Nigel Adkins - 38.75%
Veljko Paunovic - 43.04%

So Burns, Rodgers and Clement all worse over their reigns with the rest of them not too far behind.

[Snowflake Royal]

This somewhat sums up that a group of fans are going to protest and specifically call the manager a clown because we've lost a few games. It's pathetic. The problems at this club are about much more than Paunovic.

You're rather understating the position.

We've lost more than half our games this season, had our worst ever FA Cup result and our worst home defeat since the war in the same week, are on a run of 2 wins in 16 having lost 5 league games in a row.

Few doesn't really cut it.

It's worse than Rodgers. It's worse than Stam, Gomes, Burns, Clarke, McDermott or Clement. It's not far off Bullivant.

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

Paunovic 6 game form 0.17 ppg, 12 game form 0.67 ppg

Bowen 6 game 1.17, 12 game 1.17

Gomes 6 game 0.17, 11 game 0.73

Clement 6 game 1, 12 game 1.08

Stam 6 game 0.5, 12 game 0.67

Clarke 6 game 0.83, 12 game 1.5

Rodgers 6 game 1.33, 12 game 1.16

Burns 6 game 0.67 didn’t make 12 in that season

Adkins 6 game 1.17, 12 0.91

Pauno is worse than everyone except Gomes for 6 game ppg. And everyone except Stam for 12 game ppg. Both of whom he equals.

Ergo, he's worse than all of them over their last games for Reading in
a season.

[Millsy]

This somewhat sums up that a group of fans are going to protest and specifically call the manager a clown because we've lost a few games. It's pathetic. The problems at this club are about much more than Paunovic.

You're rather understating the position.

We've lost more than half our games this season, had our worst ever FA Cup result and our worst home defeat since the war in the same week, are on a run of 2 wins in 16 having lost 5 league games in a row.

Few doesn't really cut it.

It's worse than Rodgers. It's worse than Stam, Gomes, Burns, Clarke, McDermott or Clement. It's not far off Bullivant.

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

With respect I really can't believe we're trying to debate whether we want Pauno to stay or go within the protest thread.

I was probably one of his most vociferous defenders this season and I've flipped. I don't remember much support back then, why is it coming out now! Grr

Thanks for the stats and you're right about cherry picking but overall stats are much more useful when results are speckled homogenously throughout the season. Eg why median is much more useful than mean in many circumstances. (You don't need me to tell you that. ). What's much more important is trend. As has been done to death the reason a bunch of us were done with him last season is because he took us from 7pts clear of 2nd place to 7pts off the playoffs. Stunning. The first few games stood a world apart from the rest of the season. The trend this season is just stunningly bad, even allowing for mitigations.

Like many I only reluctantly accepted he can't be sacked quite certain that his time would be up by Xmas as he'd
continue poor form. Sadly just like covid has muddied Brexit as a convenient excuse for the shambles we're in, so have all the mitigations which have in a weird way kept him here.

There should be no question that he should go, this has been done to death on multiple threads and as this is the overwhelming majority feeling of the fans this is what the protest should focus on.

Annoyance with the owners is much more debatable and is an issue for another day. The urgent need now is for Pauno to have nothing to do with managing the team.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

You're rather understating the position.

We've lost more than half our games this season, had our worst ever FA Cup result and our worst home defeat since the war in the same week, are on a run of 2 wins in 16 having lost 5 league games in a row.

Few doesn't really cut it.

It's worse than Rodgers. It's worse than Stam, Gomes, Burns, Clarke, McDermott or Clement. It's not far off Bullivant.

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

Paunovic 6 game form 0.17 ppg, 12 game form 0.67 ppg

Bowen 6 game 1.17, 12 game 1.17

Gomes 6 game 0.17, 11 game 0.73

Clement 6 game 1, 12 game 1.08

Stam 6 game 0.5, 12 game 0.67

Clarke 6 game 0.83, 12 game 1.5

Rodgers 6 game 1.33, 12 game 1.16

Burns 6 game 0.67 didn’t make 12 in that season

Adkins 6 game 1.17, 12 0.91

Pauno is worse than everyone except Gomes for 6 game ppg. And everyone except Stam for 12 game ppg. Both of whom he equals.

Ergo, he's worse than all of them over their last games for Reading in
a season.

How can you select which games you want to suit your narrative?

[Hendo]

You must be new here, etc..

[Sanguine]

You must be new here, etc..

Exactly.

Fwiw Millsy I'm not debating whether or not Paunovic goes, his time is clearly run, I'm just highlighting Ian's slightly silly obsession with dressing him up as the devil incarnate when statistically he has been no worse than most of our other managers during a really wretched run since our last PL relegation.

[genome]

The real question is, can we actually afford to sack him?

[Pepe the Horseman]

Lol

[NathStPaul]

Not sure not having enough money to sack the manager is a laughing matter Horse Man.

Can we afford to sack him?

[Millsy]

You must be new here, etc..

Exactly.

Fwiw Millsy I'm not debating whether or not Paunovic goes, his time is clearly run, I'm just highlighting Ian's slightly silly obsession with dressing him up as the devil incarnate when statistically he has been no worse than most of our other managers during a really wretched run since our last PL relegation.

Fair. I thought you were arguing for him to stay. My bad.

Clearly not the devil incarnate though, the guy has been dealt a very tough hand and has had flashes of brilliance and exciting football (to me) which as you say brings his stats up overall. This is why I (and Ian) and a large bunch of us have flipflopped positions - it's not straight forward.

Yes since our relegation we have had shit after shit after shit and Pauno is certainly no more shit. Not much of a defence for him comparing him to the shower we've had since relegation. I don't care about ranking them I just want him gone.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

Paunovic 6 game form 0.17 ppg, 12 game form 0.67 ppg

Bowen 6 game 1.17, 12 game 1.17

Gomes 6 game 0.17, 11 game 0.73

Clement 6 game 1, 12 game 1.08

Stam 6 game 0.5, 12 game 0.67

Clarke 6 game 0.83, 12 game 1.5

Rodgers 6 game 1.33, 12 game 1.16

Burns 6 game 0.67 didn’t make 12 in that season

Adkins 6 game 1.17, 12 0.91

Pauno is worse than everyone except Gomes for 6 game ppg. And everyone except Stam for 12 game ppg. Both of whom he equals.

Ergo, he's worse than all of them over their last games for Reading in
a season.

How can you select which games you want to suit your narrative?

Exactly. Pretty sure we lost 6 in a row under Brian when he replaced Steve Clarke

[Snowflake Royal]

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

Paunovic 6 game form 0.17 ppg, 12 game form 0.67 ppg

Bowen 6 game 1.17, 12 game 1.17

Gomes 6 game 0.17, 11 game 0.73

Clement 6 game 1, 12 game 1.08

Stam 6 game 0.5, 12 game 0.67

Clarke 6 game 0.83, 12 game 1.5

Rodgers 6 game 1.33, 12 game 1.16

Burns 6 game 0.67 didn’t make 12 in that season

Adkins 6 game 1.17, 12 0.91

Pauno is worse than everyone except Gomes for 6 game ppg. And everyone except Stam for 12 game ppg. Both of whom he equals.

Ergo, he's worse than all of them over their last games for Reading in
a season.

How can you select which games you want to suit your narrative?

By using the absolute standard 6/12 game form? That form is basically industry standard?

The numbers fell how they fell and proved my feel for the situation, I didn't work out different permutations to get the best one.

Jesus wept.

[South Coast Royal]

Wins don't count now? This isn't the first time you've used selective stats recently to back up your views.

Paunovic has won 34% of his games in charge - this was 29% for Burns, 26% for Rodgers, 24% for Gomes and 23% for Clement. It is a similar success rate to Clarke and Adkins (both 36%) and Bowen (35%).

Tommy Burns oversaw 2 wins in 17 games from the start of his time in charge, Rodgers did 2 in 14, Gomes also had a run of 2 in 14, and so did Clement. Steve Clarke managed 2 wins in 19 games, split over his two seasons in charge. Adkins worst run was 3 in 16. You can check all these if you like.

Pretending Paunovic is in some way materially worse than all these managers is horseshit.

Not compared to that loss rate.

Loss rate:

Tommy Burns - 44.11%
Brendan Rodgers - 47.83%
Jose Gomes - 39.47%
Paul Clement - 50.00%
Steve Clarke - 37.74%
Nigel Adkins - 38.75%
Veljko Paunovic - 43.04%

So Burns, Rodgers and Clement all worse over their reigns with the rest of them not too far behind.

The common theme is of course that they all got sacked so it is a matter of when and not if for our current incumbent as it nearly always is with managers.

Also we didn't get dumped out of the FA Cup by a non-league team, get tonked 7-0 at home and concede 18 goals over a 5 match period in the same season during the tenure of any of those.

[morganb]

The real question is, can we actually afford to sack him?

Alternatively, can we afford to not sack him?

[NathStPaul]

The real question is, can we actually afford to sack him?

Alternatively, can we afford to not sack him?

But can we afford to sack him?

[biff]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Championship/c ... n_protest/

[biff]

Paunovic 6 game form 0.17 ppg, 12 game form 0.67 ppg

Bowen 6 game 1.17, 12 game 1.17

Gomes 6 game 0.17, 11 game 0.73

Clement 6 game 1, 12 game 1.08

Stam 6 game 0.5, 12 game 0.67

Clarke 6 game 0.83, 12 game 1.5

Rodgers 6 game 1.33, 12 game 1.16

Burns 6 game 0.67 didn’t make 12 in that season

Adkins 6 game 1.17, 12 0.91

Pauno is worse than everyone except Gomes for 6 game ppg. And everyone except Stam for 12 game ppg. Both of whom he equals.

Ergo, he's worse than all of them over their last games for Reading in
a season.

How can you select which games you want to suit your narrative?

By using the absolute standard 6/12 game form? That form is basically industry standard?

The numbers fell how they fell and proved my feel for the situation, I didn't work out different permutations to get the best one.

Jesus wept.

ah that FAMOUS industry standard

[Pepe the Horseman]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Championship/comments/sknsot/birmingham_city_fans_wearing_masks_in_protest/

That's terrifying.