Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[SCIAG]

If you're going to argue its not 'us' that offends, well its not 'us' that is being punished. Club and owner offends, club and owner punished.

'We' haven't lost points or been fined. Our ability to go to games is unaffected.

Looking forward to the EFL announcing that due to non-payment of wages they will be deducting one point from Pepe the Horseman.

[Snowflake Royal]

Don’t disagree with the above but have to also accept it’s massively frustrating to the fanbase when we keep getting deductions and embargoes due to the owner - who no one has any time for particularly, keeps getting the team punished in a way that affects the fans for things we’ve had no influence on whatsoever like late wage payments

I mean it’s not ‘us’ that have misbehaved. It’s not the players either who we most identify with. It’s the incompetent owner who we have no control over pretty much alone

Every fan would be of the mindset that the wages should be paid on time, the tax bill should be paid. But it’s us that gets hit when those things don’t happen by having points gained taken away and having trouble signing anyone. I’m sure we all want these problems to go away

It’s a tricky one - you can’t blame fans for being properly annoyed at it all. Think the EFL pushing for a harsher penalty than what was deemed justified isn’t going to improve the mood either

If you're going to argue its not 'us' that offends, well its not 'us' that is being punished. Club and owner offends, club and owner punished.

'We' haven't lost points or been fined. Our ability to go to games is unaffected.

The EFL were pushing for punishments within the guidelines the club agreed to. The club argued their case better so the independent panel deviated from the 'non-binding' guidelines.

You have your faults but surely you're magnanimous enough to know that’s total tosh. Any affect on the team is affecting the fans. Points deductions do that more than anything. I doubt it’s Sandra in sales’ fault but she could have lost her job, because we got relegated, because of points deductions. A football club is not an average business, no one turns up twice a week to cheer your name and celebrate when you do your job. Any punishments like these really affect the fanbase, often whose main purpose is their football club. We at Reading, curtesy of geography, opportunity and or education, are fortunate for that to apply less than some. Dai doesn’t give a shit about a poxy point here or there. We as fans, do. Unfortunately. I don’t know a solution (get better owners) harsher fines against the individual, ultimately leading to administration (without points deductions but see the problem with that) if they fail to pay. Guess just get lucky with good owners! The whole thing sucks thought, traditionally. No idea what will happen in the future but the Saudis will come and go one the official directives change, just like China. as Reading fans we had a good club, the Reading way, we weren’t a big club but we were well run and often played exciting attacking football. I miss those days.

I’ve partially argued against it for various reasons but I’d like to see us back in the prem before I die (under good leadership/management/clear-attractive identity) as being there consistently is our only chance of ever growing the club. Even these days relegated clubs are at such an advantage. Don’t even know if I’ll live to see us promoted from this league currently. At the moment I’m just “happy” to see what I can see. Watching the youth play with intent and pace is just so unlike anything we’ve seen for ages so I’m enjoying it as long as it lasts.

But yeah it’s important we go up as soon as possible but our best bet is to build a squad capable of being a championship competitive side. It makes me sad I can’t enjoy football (or anything these days) as much as before the surgery but hopefully in time I’ll be able to. The one positive is that the negatives are irksome but really not that annoying. Was more pissed off I got rained on at pv rather than the result or the performance.

Not reading all that after the first couple of sentences which were drivel.

[Hound]

That’s not a bad idea stranded - though guess at some levels that could be an awful lot of money to just put aside. Budget for a prem side must be hundred of millions

It’s a difficult one as I said. The blunt instrument of points deductions feels wrong to me but difficult to see an obvious other solution. Again telling a player that they are getting their wages late and a points deduction to give with it isn’t great

The 125% is a good idea - though obvs the punishment for not doing this is….a points deduction. Yay.

But yet all fans want Man City to get a points deduction/relegated for their financial doping. As a large fine to owner will be a drop in the water. So are we saying it’s fine for Man City to gets point deductions. But not Reading?

Totally different cases. We deserved our points deduction for breaking FFP no doubts. Man City should be getting deductions of this nature if found guilty

It’s the deductions that us (and Wigan) have had for late wage payments that is the discussion

[Elm Park Kid]

That’s not a bad idea stranded - though guess at some levels that could be an awful lot of money to just put aside. Budget for a prem side must be hundred of millions

It’s a difficult one as I said. The blunt instrument of points deductions feels wrong to me but difficult to see an obvious other solution. Again telling a player that they are getting their wages late and a points deduction to give with it isn’t great

The 125% is a good idea - though obvs the punishment for not doing this is….a points deduction. Yay.

Obviously the best situation would be if clubs were regulated well enough that these 'crimes' aren't committed in the first place.

[Snowflake Royal]

No one seemed upset about Wigan's.

[Elm Park Kid]

Don’t disagree with the above but have to also accept it’s massively frustrating to the fanbase when we keep getting deductions and embargoes due to the owner - who no one has any time for particularly, keeps getting the team punished in a way that affects the fans for things we’ve had no influence on whatsoever like late wage payments

I mean it’s not ‘us’ that have misbehaved. It’s not the players either who we most identify with. It’s the incompetent owner who we have no control over pretty much alone

Every fan would be of the mindset that the wages should be paid on time, the tax bill should be paid. But it’s us that gets hit when those things don’t happen by having points gained taken away and having trouble signing anyone. I’m sure we all want these problems to go away

It’s a tricky one - you can’t blame fans for being properly annoyed at it all. Think the EFL pushing for a harsher penalty than what was deemed justified isn’t going to improve the mood either

If you're going to argue its not 'us' that offends, well its not 'us' that is being punished. Club and owner offends, club and owner punished.

'We' haven't lost points or been fined. Our ability to go to games is unaffected.

The EFL were pushing for punishments within the guidelines the club agreed to. The club argued their case better so the independent panel deviated from the 'non-binding' guidelines.

You have your faults but surely you're magnanimous enough to know that’s total tosh. Any affect on the team is affecting the fans. Points deductions do that more than anything. I doubt it’s Sandra in sales’ fault but she could have lost her job, because we got relegated, because of points deductions. A football club is not an average business, no one turns up twice a week to cheer your name and celebrate when you do your job. Any punishments like these really affect the fanbase, often whose main purpose is their football club. We at Reading, curtesy of geography, opportunity and or education, are fortunate for that to apply less than some. Dai doesn’t give a shit about a poxy point here or there. We as fans, do. Unfortunately. I don’t know a solution (get better owners) harsher fines against the individual, ultimately leading to administration (without points deductions but see the problem with that) if they fail to pay. Guess just get lucky with good owners! The whole thing sucks thought, traditionally. No idea what will happen in the future but the Saudis will come and go one the official directives change, just like China. as Reading fans we had a good club, the Reading way, we weren’t a big club but we were well run and often played exciting attacking football. I miss those days.

I’ve partially argued against it for various reasons but I’d like to see us back in the prem before I die (under good leadership/management/clear-attractive identity) as being there consistently is our only chance of ever growing the club. Even these days relegated clubs are at such an advantage. Don’t even know if I’ll live to see us promoted from this league currently. At the moment I’m just “happy” to see what I can see. Watching the youth play with intent and pace is just so unlike anything we’ve seen for ages so I’m enjoying it as long as it lasts.

But yeah it’s important we go up as soon as possible but our best bet is to build a squad capable of being a championship competitive side. It makes me sad I can’t enjoy football (or anything these days) as much as before the surgery but hopefully in time I’ll be able to. The one positive is that the negatives are irksome but really not that annoying. Was more pissed off I got rained on at pv rather than the result or the performance.

But every season there will be three clubs that get relegated. Three 'Sandras' who potentially lose their jobs. The question is whether it's right that we gain an advantage from breaking EFL rules in a way that means that some other club is the one relegated rather than us. What about their fans?

[Hound]

No one seemed upset about Wigan's.

I’m sure the Wigan fans were

Fwiw I think that’s a ridiculous penalty personally. Mind you maybe it forced the change of ownership quicker than it would have otherwise

[Stranded]

No one seemed upset about Wigan's.

I’m sure the Wigan fans were

Fwiw I think that’s a ridiculous penalty personally. Mind you maybe it forced the change of ownership quicker than it would have otherwise

Indeed and in terms of wage payment offences their's was much worse to the extent that players have been able to rip up contracts, we haven't got anywhere near that - then the owner didn't pay the 125%, which is probably where we'll be next month anyway.

[Snowflake Royal]

No one seemed upset about Wigan's.

I’m sure the Wigan fans were

Fwiw I think that’s a ridiculous penalty personally. Mind you maybe it forced the change of ownership quicker than it would have otherwise

Only a problem when it happens to ones club then, it seems.

[3points]

Just been reading the public findings from the China Dili investigation. Summary is "nothing to see here, not on our watch" so the current board of China Dili rubbing their hands of responsibility. However, the best phrase in the statement is

"Pursuant to the Independent Investigation Report, the relevant personnel who coordinated and arranged the Guarantees has passed away and neither Mr. Dai nor the other signatories to the relevant agreements were aware of the details regarding the Guarantees."

In other words, Dai signs things which he has no idea what he's signing. What a great defence!

[Hound]

No one seemed upset about Wigan's.

I’m sure the Wigan fans were

Fwiw I think that’s a ridiculous penalty personally. Mind you maybe it forced the change of ownership quicker than it would have otherwise

Only a problem when it happens to ones club then, it seems.

Nope don’t think that’s the case at all. Though of course I’m more bothered about readings situation than Wigan, but objectively Wigan got a harsher deal there

[Mid Sussex Royal]

I’m sure the Wigan fans were

Fwiw I think that’s a ridiculous penalty personally. Mind you maybe it forced the change of ownership quicker than it would have otherwise

Only a problem when it happens to ones club then, it seems.

Nope don’t think that’s the case at all. Though of course I’m more bothered about readings situation than Wigan, but objectively Wigan got a harsher deal there

Wigan though were only docked points on the 4th and 5th incidence of late wages and the delay to payment was often several days rather than like us where on 2 occasions they were held up in the banking system.

We already know we're another -3 if we're late again (4th time) so at that point we will be the same as Wigan after 4x late payments.

[Mr Angry]

It has been mentioned before that Dai is being hamstrung to get capital out of China.

Just in case anyone is interested, the law in China is that the maximum an Individual can transfer out of China in any single Financial Year is the equivilent of $US 50,000; or approx. £39,250.

[Snowflake Royal]

It has been mentioned before that Dai is being hamstrung to get capital out of China.

Just in case anyone is interested, the law in China is that the maximum an Individual can transfer out of China in any single Financial Year is the equivilent of $US 50,000; or approx. £39,250.

A lot of his business is registered in dodgy tax havens anyway.

And clearly that can't be right because that not even two weeks of Moore's wages and we know the bank of China delayed payment a while back for a couple of days that meant wages were late.

[PieEater]

It seems probable to me that we wont be able to scrape together 2 months wages in 1 month so we'll get the next points deduction.

There seems to be an irony that a club struggling to pay the bills has to pay double as a punishment for a late payment.

It also wasn't clear to me what terms we could use to draw on the saved wage account, could we do this every month? Does accessing this money to avoid a late wage payment trigger any points penalty?

[Snowball]

Does anyone know how PLAYER SWAPS will be viewed?

We have four players likely to be on the way out

Could we do a swap deal or swap deals?

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Does anyone know how PLAYER SWAPS will be viewed?

We have four players likely to be on the way out

Could we do a swap deal or swap deals?

Good point....not sure how these deals work, are player valuations included in the transfer forms sent to EFL?

I'd have thought if we sold say Holmes to a lower Championship side and got say a young prospect back of lesser value we'd be ok?

Can't see anyone coming in for Bouzanis, who was only signed as he was Ince's mate, or even Carroll atm given what's gone on

[blythspartan]

Has anybody else seen tweets suggesting that Dai has been cleared of any financial wrongdoing in China and that although his company is currently suspended it is likely to resume in the future. Not sure if this could be better news for us or not.

[windermereROYAL]

Has anybody else seen tweets suggesting that Dai has been cleared of any financial wrongdoing in China and that although his company is currently suspended it is likely to resume in the future. Not sure if this could be better news for us or not.

Love it to be true and a way out of this unholy mess but very likely somebody making stuff up to cause a mischief.

Was it a reliable source?

[Elm Park Kid]

Does anyone know how PLAYER SWAPS will be viewed?

We have four players likely to be on the way out

Could we do a swap deal or swap deals?

Good point....not sure how these deals work, are player valuations included in the transfer forms sent to EFL?

I'd have thought if we sold say Holmes to a lower Championship side and got say a young prospect back of lesser value we'd be ok?

Can't see anyone coming in for Bouzanis, who was only signed as he was Ince's mate, or even Carroll atm given what's gone on

Not certain, but I think they are viewed the same as normal player purchases/sales. Is just the case that no fee has to be transferred as the sale price in both cases is the same. They will have to come up with a value though.

So, given that, I don't think we'd be allowed to do them as it does technically involve a fee.