"We've got four strikers, we're trying to find the right..."

[Barry the bird boggler]

How about HRK and Kebe up front?

[Svlad Cjelli]

It may not even be as simple as which two play best togther.

Different combinations may work better against different teams, with different midfielders player or at different stages of the game.

There just aren't the "magic bullet" formulae that some people seem to be looking for.

[floyd__streete]

we have these ten combinations:

Church / Hunt
Le Fondre / Manset
Church / Le Fondre
Hunt / Manset
Church / Manset
Hunt / Le Fondre
Church
Hunt
Le Fondre
Manset

Put me down for 'none of the above' please.

[RoyalJames101]

Bring back Bas Savage.

[Snowball]

Maybe so.

But I was discussing how a player who manages just one attacking major contribution
every 5.1 games could be "EASILY BETTER" than one who manages the same feat
in better than a game and a half.



0,515 Minutes 04 Major Contributions 129 Minutes per major contribution 3 Goals 1 Assists MANSET

0,914 Minutes 02 Major Contributions 457 Minutes per major contribution 2 Goals 0 Assists CHURCH

As you said earlier in the thread, stats don't always give the whole picture.

Manset has, I should think, played a higher percentage of his minutes late in games when we're chasing goals for whatever reason (and certainly less first halfs!). As anyone who's seen us play this season will testify, and it's been discussed on here, until we're really chasing a game or goals we don't seem to have any clue as to how to score irrespective of who is in the team.

I'd also suggest that Mansets sample size is a little small to be used in direct comparison to Church (neither of whom I think are quite up to being a regular scorer at this level).

I remember exactly the same argument being used to dismiss Shane Long's goals.

But my point was NOT to say Manset is brilliant (yet) but that a scoring rate almost 4 times better than Church
is hardly evidence for INFERIORITY to Church. The poster said Church was EASILY better!

[Hoop Blah]

1) I'm not dismissing the goals

2) I'm not using the same argument as when it was suggested Long's goal to minute ratio was influenced by the times in games his was on the pitch we weren't a side that had only scored 1 goal in the first half of a game after 20 games of the season (this is very key in the comparison)

3) The point that generally more games are scored in the last 20 minutes of a match was proven to be right and so kind of backed up the inbalance between comparing minutes per goal when one player was predominantly on the pitch during that period of a game

I'm not disputing any of the comments on the merits of Manset or Church, just that, as you yourself said, stats don't always tell the full picture.

[Ian Royal]

Le Fondre & Hunt have the best individual contributions. We just don't score much with Church on the pitch. He doesn't score much and he doesn't provide goals. Manset is the ideal super sub. HRK is a decent cover for striker and winger.

We've tried Church and Le Fondre for a good period. It didn't work. Hunt & Le Fondre haven't had a great deal of pitch time together, but seem to be doing ok. So that's the one to try at the moment IMO.

Church & Le Fondre's games they started together

Doncaster (H) - 2-0 W
Coventry (A) - 1-1 D
Bristol City (A) - 3-2 W
Boro (H) - 0-0 D
Burnley (A) - 1-1 D
Derby (H) - 2-2 D
Southampton (H) - 1-1 D
Palace (A) - 0-0 D
Birmingham (H) - 1-0 W

How has that not work?

Is it possibly because we drew five games in a row we could have won, scoring a massive 4 goals and score only just over half a goal a game whilst Church is playing?

That sequence is a good reflection on the defence not the attack! There's 11 goals in 9 games and neither Le Fondre of Church scored in the last 4 games of the sequence iirc.

[Snowball]

Church & Le Fondre's games they started together


Doncaster (H) - 2-0 W Church starting and on pitch. SCORED
Coventry (A) - 1-1 D Church starting and on pitch. SCORED
Boro (H) - 0-0 D Church starting and on pitch for 82 Minutes.
Derby (H) - 2-2 D Church starting and on pitch.
Southampton (H) - 1-1 D Church starting and on pitch
Palace (A) - 0-0 D Church starting and on pitch for 79 Minutes (Disallowed Goal on 90 after Church subbed)





Burnley (A) - 1-1 D CHURCH SUBBED OFF 1 Goal then scored.
Bristol City (A) - 3-2 W CHURCH SUBBED OFF 3 Goals then scored.
Birmingham (H) - 1-0 W CHURCH SUBBED OFF 1 Goal then scored.






How has that not worked?

Well, arguably it may have worked, but most of the wins mentioned
came from goals scored once Church had come off

P6 W1 D5 6-4 (Church starting with Alf and still on pitch) = 1.333 ppg
P3 W2 D1 5-3 (hurch starting with Alf CHURCH SUBBED OFF = 2.333 ppg

an extra point per game?




Plus (not starting with Alf)

SUBBED OFF v Ipswich. 3 Goals then scored.

[RobRoyal]

Church & Le Fondre's games they started together

Doncaster (H) - 2-0 W
Coventry (A) - 1-1 D
Bristol City (A) - 3-2 W
Boro (H) - 0-0 D
Burnley (A) - 1-1 D
Derby (H) - 2-2 D
Southampton (H) - 1-1 D
Palace (A) - 0-0 D
Birmingham (H) - 1-0 W

How has that not work?

So we've scored 5 goals in the last 6 games with the two of them starting together. Brilliant.

[melonhead]

Church & Le Fondre's games they started together

Doncaster (H) - 2-0 W
Coventry (A) - 1-1 D
Bristol City (A) - 3-2 W
Boro (H) - 0-0 D
Burnley (A) - 1-1 D
Derby (H) - 2-2 D
Southampton (H) - 1-1 D
Palace (A) - 0-0 D
Birmingham (H) - 1-0 W

How has that not work?

So we've scored 5 goals in the last 6 games with the two of them starting together. Brilliant.

but unbeaten in 8, 3w and 5d

t'aint that bad!

[FC Bracknell Royal]

Church is easily better than Manset.

Clearly

0,515 Minutes 04 Major Contributions 129 Minutes per major contribution 3 Goals 1 Assists MANSET

0,914 Minutes 02 Major Contributions 457 Minutes per major contribution 2 Goals 0 Assists CHURCH

Yes you can look at 'major' contributuions. But when a pass goes into the feet of Manset it goes right through him. The guy is too raw and doesnt have a good enough footballing brain. Power alone doesnt make you a great player

[RobRoyal]

So we've scored 5 goals in the last 6 games with the two of them starting together. Brilliant.

but unbeaten in 8, 3w and 5d

t'aint that bad!

We could have done that with 3 goals in 8 games - would we then be saying there was nothing wrong with our strike-partnership?

Or would we be saying we're picking up results despite them?

[The Rouge]

For what its worth, it is one or the other for me:

ALF/Hunt
ALF/Manset

- I don't think any of them can play as a lone striker
- So no 3 in the middle of the park and the two centre mids required with Kebe/Mcanuff in the team are for me Ledge/Jem or maybe at a push Ledge/Tabb

[leicsRoyal]

I'm not sure we have what we need at present.

ALF and A N other for me. I suppose Hunt is the best option that we have but would really like to see a loan signing come in upfront in January, prefferably a target man.

[melonhead]

ALF works hard, and holds it up well enough to play lone striker imo

[roadrunner]

We might have 4 strikers but only one of them is really any good and that's Le Fondre.

Hunt is slow and injury prone. Good with his head though.
Church is Church. No pace, very inconsistent, easy to mark.
Manset is a monster but is the roughest of rough diamonds.

I'd like to see Manset loaned out and we sign a decent partner for Le Fondre, but it'll never happen.

At the moment I would favour Alfie and Hunt with Church off the bench.

[Svlad Cjelli]

ALF works hard, and holds it up well enough to play lone striker imo

I think that'd be a waste of his talent, though.

[melonhead]

id like that- butnhunt/alf showing signs of being a more than decent partnership imo, and would be a shame to lose that
especialy without a real AM

[Tails]

I see today's events are even affecting the Reading line up...

[JC]

I see today's events are even affecting the Reading line up...

??