An Ipswich fan writes: Church - is he any good?

[Snowball]

Every season someone (or 2-3-4) have a high-scoring season but not that many Prem strikers get more than 12

Last season Drogba, Rooney, only managed 11. Lampard, Torres, Kalou, Gyan, Nasri, & Fletcher only managed 10

11 Premiership goals was good enough for 15th-best in that league

[Vision]

Every season someone (or 2-3-4) have a high-scoring season but not that many Prem strikers get more than 12

Last season Drogba, Rooney, only managed 11. Lampard, Torres, Kalou, Gyan, Nasri, & Fletcher only managed 10

11 Premiership goals was good enough for 15th-best in that league

Don't disagree that its a tough ask on a consistent basis and there are plenty of reasons why this is the case.

Thing is you're the one predicting Long will become one of those players. I'm merely of the opinion that until he consistently gets that target you can't call him a 10 goal a season player. As of yet he hasn't done it in any premiership season albeit his only one as an established player.

[Snowball]

So by your own admission he hasn't yet met the prediction you continually claim to have made.

No, to be precise, my prediction was:

10 Goals in the Premiership
OR
20 Goals in the Championship
OR
30 Goals in League 1


and he has achieved that.


Of course, when he scores his ten in the Prem, I won't mention it. Frankly, looking at the top-scorers list 10 is a big ask for many very, VERY good players.

Incidentally he played less than 64% of the available minutes last season, and got 8 Prem goals. Multiplying up he was "due" 12/13 in 38*90 minutes.

I think his 8, given his nasty injury and that heart scare was quite brilliant

He did exceed expectations in the championship and a lot of people in the premiership but you can't say he has Acheived X amount of goals if he hasn't

I didn't.

There may have been mitigating circumstances but until he gets the 10 goal figure you can't say your prediction is right can you.

I can claim that my prediction was smack on, because it was. Now, when he gets a full season and ten, I'll be doubly right.

[Snowball]

Thing is you're the one predicting Long will become one of those players.

Nope. My prediction was 10 Prem OR 20 Champ OR 30 L1.

I'm merely of the opinion that until he consistently gets that target you can't call him a 10 goal a season player.

I am not calling him that nor have I called him that.

My predictions came at a time when many were saying he would never even make a half-decent CHAMPIONSHIP player

[Hoop Blah]

Tbf Hoop his championship haul that season was a bit better than just "pretty respectable number of goals".

Agreed.

My only caveat to that has always been that if you take out the 7 or 8 penalties he scored his return, from a spectaular run of form over 6 months, wasn't quite the Messi'esque brilliance some would make out.

His goal return was good yes, as was his ability to win those penalties, but I still don't think he looks that good a player. Effective at what he does yes, but did he suddenly turn into the excellent player his stats made him look? Nope, not quite for me (although McDermott did one hell of a job building a successful formula around his talents, that bit I've held my hands up to have been proven wrong many a time).

[floyd__streete]

How has a thread on Simon Church developed into a discussion on the merits of one of our former players

[pea]

How has a thread on Simon Church developed into a discussion on the merits of one of our former players

it snowballed

[JordCot]

How has a thread on Simon Church developed into a discussion on the merits of one of our former players

it snowballed

[SpaceCruiser]

You got it the wrong way round. I've just checked soccerbase, for season 2010-11, Church got 5 and Long got 9.

BTW, soccerbase says Shane is now 25 years old....

You haven't got that right. 2010-11 was the season where Long was our top scorer. In 2009-10 (the season we were discussing), Church scored 10 league goals, 2 cup goals and one for Wales. Long scored 6 league goals and 3 cup goals.

Both our statements were correct, the difference is I don't value cup goals particularly because you play against teams from lower leagues or weakened sides.

Christ, I must have somehow confused myself.

Just rechecked soccerbase. 2010-11, Shane scored 28 goals and Simon scored 5. 2009-10, Shane scored 9 and Simon scored 13. Still doesn't disprove my original statement that Shane DID score a few the season before the 2010-11 season. I think!