Zingarevich

[Extended-Phenotype]

Another bullshit post which doesn't make sense, if we had all that cash that you seem to think we had, why were we unable to agree a deal for Ince?
It would seem logical that in fact we didn't have enough money to strike a deal. There was an asking price, and our owner failed to come up with the money.

Or, rather than this strange idea Anton let's us approach players we have no chance of affording, the asking price was more than we, the club, owner and management team, wanted to part with in comparison with our evaluation of the player.

In which case, time to draw out another name from the sack of targets. Unless you are Brian and your targets are all written down on a single post-it or already in your f/cking phone.

[Hoop Blah]

we do know what went on. anton gave brian the budget of ~10 million to buy a really good player (like ince or gylfi or aspas)
brian tried to get gylfi brian and aspas, but failed, either because the selling clubs thought they were worth ,more, or because they didnt really want to play for a few months for reading then get relegated.
thats not brians fault, thats not antons fault. it just is.

the only fault lies with brian for not then either having an endless list of 10 million pound attackingf midfielders to get instead, or to butymore players, for less money each. i can understand him not going with that second option

That's one way of looking at it. Another might be that players looking in from the outside saw the way McDermott had us playing and how he'd treated the potentially more technical and creative players in the squad and it left serious doubts in their minds of playing for him?

A big part of being a successful manager is being able to attract and inspire the players to keep improving your side.

[Extended-Phenotype]

we do know what went on. anton gave brian the budget of ~10 million to buy a really good player (like ince or gylfi or aspas)
brian tried to get gylfi brian and aspas, but failed, either because the selling clubs thought they were worth ,more, or because they didnt really want to play for a few months for reading then get relegated.
thats not brians fault, thats not antons fault. it just is.

the only fault lies with brian for not then either having an endless list of 10 million pound attackingf midfielders to get instead, or to butymore players, for less money each. i can understand him not going with that second option

That's one way of looking at it. Another might be that players looking in from the outside saw the way McDermott had us playing and how he'd treated the potentially more technical and creative players in the squad and it left serious doubts in their minds of playing for him?

A big part of being a successful manager is being able to attract and inspire the players to keep improving your side.

You mean he didn't do that by suspending players who passed the ball less than 60ft?

[Hoop Blah]

Another bullshit post which doesn't make sense, if we had all that cash that you seem to think we had, why were we unable to agree a deal for Ince?
It would seem logical that in fact we didn't have enough money to strike a deal. There was an asking price, and our owner failed to come up with the money.

I was under the impression that we did agree a fee for Ince but he wanted to stay and play out the season before looking at his options in the summer.

[Big Ern]

Another bullshit post which doesn't make sense, if we had all that cash that you seem to think we had, why were we unable to agree a deal for Ince?
It would seem logical that in fact we didn't have enough money to strike a deal. There was an asking price, and our owner failed to come up with the money.

I was under the impression that we did agree a fee for Ince but he wanted to stay and play out the season before looking at his options in the summer.

But that wouldn't fit wih Ideal's argument so must be rubbish.

[melonhead]

RL is correct. Ady Williams pressed Anton to confirm if it was Brian or Anton who didn't do enough in the January transfer window. AZ said Brian wasn't "active enough" and had more money to use but didn't.

thats not saying anything we didnt already know.
there was money
we werent able to spend it.

[melonhead]

100% KNOW that the follwing is 100% true

owner released funds for the purchase of an attacking midfielder
manager targetted a number of attacking midfielders and made enquiries/bids
enquiries/bids were either turned down, or players turned us down.

Well forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel brendy..

thats nothing to do with me. thats just the stuff we do actually know

[melonhead]

just dont see how brian was supposed to attract expensively brilliant players here, regardless of how much money hed been given.

This your fall-back position now your "Brian didn't have anything to do with how much money was spent" yawnmantra has been butchered in a wood?

dicksplat

no. i just dont see the point of trotting out the same quotes etc, when in reality we know nothing more now than we did then.
and its never been a mantra. from the very beginning ive said im happy to revise my opinion when new evidence comes to light. as is only sensible.

[melonhead]

just dont see how brian was supposed to attract expensively brilliant players here, regardless of how much money hed been given.
could we have bought 3 half decent players with that 10 million instead? i guess, but thats not really what we needed

So you agree it wasn't totally his fault then? Hallelujah. AZ clearly said "yes" when asked if it were the manager's fault - so not sure why you're sticking up for AZ in that case.

never said anything other than that.
its oxf*rd all about defending AZ, its about looking at what he said and being able to use my brain to realise that if you remove all of your predjudices and bias and look at the words and context, and situation, and realising he perhaps was just frustrated at the lack of activity once he'd decided to spend.
yes its brians"Fault" that he didnt spend the money. but thats because he had three targets. players he knew would be good enough, in a position we needed to fill, who would possibly come here. we tried to get them, either the clubs or the players turned us down.
he could then have gone on and bought players he didnt rate as much, in positions we didnt really need.but didnt.

i can both fully understand AZs frustration.
and fully agree with brians decisions regarding his transfer startegy in this matter.


and i resent the idea that everything must always be boiled down to this black and white, one person must be to blame nonsense

[melonhead]

Find it hard to believe the only decent, available attacking midfielders in the world were Gylfi and Ince. Find it equally as hard to believe we didn't have time to bring in other suitable options had these two fallen through.

The chairman is there for his wallet. It's the management team who are responsible for scouting options, lining up deals and ensuring their success.

I also don't buy into the idea that nobody good would have wanted to play here for the right money. Fun as it is to slam our club in attempts to defend some bloke who managed us once, we are a decent place to be, great prospects, financially flush and building ourselves up to be a premier league contender.

The rational assumption is that the management team, including beloved Dermie, f/cked up. McD chose to admirably put his faith in the team that took us up and strengthen only in depth. He decided to afford new players less patience than he did his old friends. He decided that one or two targets were enough in January. Oh but players might not have wanted to come here, or their club might have wanted more cash - great, anyone think to tell McD that? Personally, if I had known this information privy to even the village idiot, I'd have hit January with more targets than Anders Breivik.

But no, for some it seems easier to believe that Anton said there was money, didn't give any, then pretended to bid big on targets in January with made up money, keeping his fingers crossed the deals fell through and he wouldn't have to part with tens of millions, and then watch his team get relegated missing out on real money, even though he f/cking loves money so much he doesn't want to part with any.

All because Brian would be ace to have a beer with down the Nags Head.

also made enquiries about an 8 million bid for aspas in spain.


its not about them being the only ones. its about being the only ones who are worth the price,AND would fit into the team, AND would possibly want to come here.

kind of player who is better than gylfi/tom ince/aspas would be going to a better club, on better money if they were up for moving.and players worse than that were viewed as overpriced or not good enough.
the kind of players who were possibly good enough, but had questionable attitude/motives are the kind of players that QPR got in, and we simpky refused to countenance that sort of move.

no one has an endless list of possible transfers, andi agree with the idea that going too far down the list you do have is silly.

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

This January window / Attacking Midfielder argument is still going?

We were never going to get any of those three players for the money we deemed 'value' in the January window, let alone that late in it.

Furthermore, Ince is destined for better than us, Gylfi would never have risked playing in the Championship, and neither would have Benayoun or the other fella = Unrealistic targets.

If we'd gone for a more realistic Koren-type player (we're arguably 'bigger' club on the way up, 6-8M being big money to a team like Hull) I think we'd have been successful.

it was one of two things - 1) smokescreen/bluff to appease the fans or 2) terrible bid management.

[melonhead]

Another bullshit post which doesn't make sense, if we had all that cash that you seem to think we had, why were we unable to agree a deal for Ince?
It would seem logical that in fact we didn't have enough money to strike a deal. There was an asking price, and our owner failed to come up with the money.

ince will be playing prem football next year, and for a bigger club than reading.
if hed joined us, he wouldnt be.
his club know that a bigger club will be in for him, and know that they will offer more money.

we assess a players worth and make offers based on that. i think that is sensible


there was money available in january, that brian tried to spend, but couldnt in the end. that is clear. arguing against that is silly

[melonhead]

This January window / Attacking Midfielder argument is still going?

We were never going to get any of those three players for the money we deemed 'value' in the January window, let alone that late in it.

Furthermore, Ince is destined for better than us, Gylfi would never have risked playing in the Championship, and neither would have Benayoun or the other fella = Unrealistic targets.

If we'd gone for a more realistic Koren-type player (we're arguably 'bigger' club on the way up, 6-8M being big money to a team like Hull) I think we'd have been successful.

it was one of two things - 1) smokescreen/bluff to appease the fans or 2) terrible bid management.

at the time gylfi wasnt playing much for spurs, and brian must have guaged whether gylfi himself would be up for a move if spurs were
it was possible that tom ince may have come here, as it was for the spanish 2nd division player.

those deals werent just bunged on th etable at the end of jan. it takes a long time toassess a player, talk to his club,talk to him, talk to his agent and come to the pojt where a deal either goes ahead or not. you simply cannot go through that process with 10 players in one month. so by definition you should always try and limit it to your top few choices

[melonhead]

RL is correct. Ady Williams pressed Anton to confirm if it was Brian or Anton who didn't do enough in the January transfer window. AZ said Brian wasn't "active enough" and had more money to use but didn't.

Of course AZ would say that to save his own ass with the fans, but the fact remains that McD has stated there was no more money.
So it comes down to who you believe, and I for one refuse to believe that there is any football manager in this day and age, when faced with relegation, who doesn't spunk his entire transfer budget in the january window, that's for damn sure! If there was money, it would have been spent!!!!!

he said there was no more money in the summer. its clear there was more money in january

[winchester_royal]

100% KNOW that the follwing is 100% true

owner released funds for the purchase of an attacking midfielder
manager targetted a number of attacking midfielders and made enquiries/bids
enquiries/bids were either turned down, or players turned us down.

Well forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel brendy..

thats nothing to do with me. thats just the stuff we do actually know

Right...but we don't know how extensive the list was/how many suitable players were ignored/how much effort went into securing their signature.

We cannot possibly 100% know what went on behind closed doors.

[melonhead]

RL is correct. Ady Williams pressed Anton to confirm if it was Brian or Anton who didn't do enough in the January transfer window. AZ said Brian wasn't "active enough" and had more money to use but didn't.

Of course AZ would say that to save his own ass with the fans, but the fact remains that McD has stated there was no more money.
So it comes down to who you believe, and I for one refuse to believe that there is any football manager in this day and age, when faced with relegation, who doesn't spunk his entire transfer budget in the january window, that's for damn sure! If there was money, it would have been spent!!!!!

Where is the evidence to support the fact that McD stated there was no more money in January? I can offer evidence to support quite the contrary. Ask Ady Williams about the interview that McDermott gave him (I think it may have been after the Wigan or Villa game) when McDermott categorically dismissed those claims and clearly stated that there was money available, citing the £10M bid for Sig as proof of that.

Whose fault was it that we didn't spend that money? Who decided to wait until the 11th hour (12th would be more accurate) to make a bid for Sig only to be left with no time/alternative options when the bid was turned down? Who decided to put £10M of eggs in the one basket? Who says there wasn't more than £10M made available?

3 baskets that we know concrete stuff about
two of them from our club, one from the (non)selling club

[melonhead]

we do know what went on. anton gave brian the budget of ~10 million to buy a really good player (like ince or gylfi or aspas)
brian tried to get gylfi brian and aspas, but failed, either because the selling clubs thought they were worth ,more, or because they didnt really want to play for a few months for reading then get relegated.
thats not brians fault, thats not antons fault. it just is.

the only fault lies with brian for not then either having an endless list of 10 million pound attackingf midfielders to get instead, or to butymore players, for less money each. i can understand him not going with that second option

That's one way of looking at it. Another might be that players looking in from the outside saw the way McDermott had us playing and how he'd treated the potentially more technical and creative players in the squad and it left serious doubts in their minds of playing for him?

A big part of being a successful manager is being able to attract and inspire the players to keep improving your side.

honestly think thats rubbish, but i defend your right to believe such nonsense.


its clear that playing in the prem and the money that brings is what is important to most players at the level we were looking at. you can get very good players to come to a clu7b in our position, but you must pay accordingly to compensate them for the possible/probably relegation
yes the manager has influence, for sure, but you could have pep guardiola in charge and the kind of players we need wouldnt come near us.

[melonhead]

we do know what went on. anton gave brian the budget of ~10 million to buy a really good player (like ince or gylfi or aspas)
brian tried to get gylfi brian and aspas, but failed, either because the selling clubs thought they were worth ,more, or because they didnt really want to play for a few months for reading then get relegated.
thats not brians fault, thats not antons fault. it just is.

the only fault lies with brian for not then either having an endless list of 10 million pound attackingf midfielders to get instead, or to butymore players, for less money each. i can understand him not going with that second option

That's one way of looking at it. Another might be that players looking in from the outside saw the way McDermott had us playing and how he'd treated the potentially more technical and creative players in the squad and it left serious doubts in their minds of playing for him?

A big part of being a successful manager is being able to attract and inspire the players to keep improving your side.

You mean he didn't do that by suspending players who passed the ball less than 60ft?

he was lucky he ever played for us again. many bigger and better managers than brian would have frozen him out for that

[melonhead]

Well forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel brendy..

thats nothing to do with me. thats just the stuff we do actually know

Right...but we don't know how extensive the list was/how many suitable players were ignored/how much effort went into securing their signature.

We cannot possibly 100% know what went on behind closed doors.

yes. but i clearly excluded those other things when i said we

100% KNOW that the follwing is 100% true

"the following" indicates the words that came after, and definitely doesnt include all the other stuff in the world i didnt write after that

[Extended-Phenotype]

So Brian identified just three targets? Just three players in the world? He was sure that: Nobody else would be good enough. Nobody else would want to play here. And nobody else would prove value for money or improve the team in a bid to stay up?

Pretty shocking management.