Sense of Reality

[Silver Fox]

Has any midtable side ever been in as much trouble as people seem to be saying we are?

[kwik-silva]

upper mid-table side, too

[littlejohnnyoster]

Hi All,

I have been reading recent posts with great interest on a number of topics about our great football club.

oxf*rd off

[Royalclapper]

I always did have a sense of reality. I could not see how this team was suddenly going to start winning just because it was relegated. The signings were encouraging only if they were part of a larger number of signings, but they turned out to be piecemeal ... parts of a jigsaw only. And this remains a desperately difficult league to get out of, despite the fact we did it twice recently.

I think it is realistic of me to want the team to play better, though. Without the team spirit and dogged tackling we used to have, we look unpromising. Some people say we are trying to play more entertaining football, but I was always entertained by Reading breaking the opposition's hearts through relentless pressing salted by sudden darts up the field. Give me that over the present patchy mix of good play and horribly loose play.

Trouble is, those type of tactics and football style only have a short shelf life. As much as it was entertaining in the sense of constantly pressing and scoring on the counter it only ever works against other limited teams. As soon as you step up in class it gets ruthlessly exposed for what it is and better sides pick you off at will.

[Cureton's Volley]

I always did have a sense of reality. I could not see how this team was suddenly going to start winning just because it was relegated. The signings were encouraging only if they were part of a larger number of signings, but they turned out to be piecemeal ... parts of a jigsaw only. And this remains a desperately difficult league to get out of, despite the fact we did it twice recently.

I think it is realistic of me to want the team to play better, though. Without the team spirit and dogged tackling we used to have, we look unpromising. Some people say we are trying to play more entertaining football, but I was always entertained by Reading breaking the opposition's hearts through relentless pressing salted by sudden darts up the field. Give me that over the present patchy mix of good play and horribly loose play.

Trouble is, those type of tactics and football style only have a short shelf life. As much as it was entertaining in the sense of constantly pressing and scoring on the counter it only ever works against other limited teams. As soon as you step up in class it gets ruthlessly exposed for what it is and better sides pick you off at will.

BS

http://whitehouseaddress.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/footballs-new-era-rise-of-counter.html




It's not the style that was the problem, it was the lack of quality required to operate in the Premier League. The style just became an excuse for impatient and arrogant people who were too rattled to deal with the fact we overachieved the season previous, didn't invest - and for some reason felt we had suddenly had a divine right to play like Arsenal...

[Royalclapper]

Yeah, agree lack of quality is/was a huge part of the problem. All the sides mentioned in that article have top class players though of one kind or another so a lot of it may point towards the altering of the playing style to adapt and counter the opposition's strengths rather than it being a continuing or regular tactic. Dortmund for instance looked great in the Champions League and yet ultimately Bayern Munich had that extra bit of class that eventually told and undid them when it mattered in the Final.

For sides promoted from the Championship into the Premier League though, the one's that stand a better chance of staying up and competing are the one's who only need to add that extra bit of quality where needed rather than start almost from scratch. Coppell's side were prepared and tuned in to what it takes prior to promotion whereas McD's team were absolutely miles off in terms of RFC. Stoke have somewhat bucked the trend on surviving with a negative style and yet this has still not been enough because it's so depressing to watch and the public soon get fed up of having little excitement and their interest dampened - although they could soon change their minds upon a relegation.

[Cureton's Volley]

Yeah, agree lack of quality is/was a huge part of the problem. All the sides mentioned in that article have top class players though of one kind or another so a lot of it may point towards the altering of the playing style to adapt and counter the opposition's strengths rather than it being a continuing or regular tactic. Dortmund for instance looked great in the Champions League and yet ultimately Bayern Munich had that extra bit of class that eventually told and undid them when it mattered in the Final.

Yes and Bayern combined many aspects and styles, which included direct and wing play when necessary.

One man has consistently used 'press & counter' as a 'continuing and regular tactic':

"And who is the 'master' of this type of counter attacking football. Well for the past decade there has been no other like Jose Mourinho. He can be regarded as the anti-thesis to Guardiola, the so called enemy of Barcelona and their philosophy and style.

Mourinho believes that the game of football is won in transition, effectively he argues that counter attacks provide the best chance to score and therefore are key for a teams success. Mourinho sets his sides up to counter attack, that is his approach, a somewhat ‘reactive’ mentality built on defensive solidity.

Yet he has been continually lambasted for his poor and ugly style of football. Cruyff’s beliefs about Mourinho were similar to many others, yes success is good but style and success is even better. And this is what Atletico and Dortmund have brought to their style of play, it is not ‘ugly’ but actually entertaining. They make ‘tiki-taka’ look dull. Cryuff does not believe in anything but the Ajax way, yet surely he cannot say that ‘counter pressing’ football is ‘anti-football’?"

For sides promoted from the Championship into the Premier League though, the one's that stand a better chance of staying up and competing are the one's who only need to add that extra bit of quality where needed rather than start almost from scratch.

This is why I never understood the witch hunt to oust Brian once we got there. We were not ready to go up, but despite that we went and won the Championship. I say fair play. We all knew it would be unlikely to avoid relegation and the bookies agreed.

IMO we should have just let Brian learn from the experience (he was only a few years into his professional management career after all) and use the money earned to invest in the team for next time - rather than starting from scratch with a new administration, new philosophy, and seemingly letting go a lot of the good things about RFC in the process

Stoke have somewhat bucked the trend on surviving with a negative style and yet this has still not been enough because it's so depressing to watch and the public soon get fed up of having little excitement and their interest dampened - although they could soon change their minds upon a relegation.

I do not think we went into the Prem with a negativity. We were direct, ambitious and IIRC the first quarter of the season people on here were lambasting us for being too open and to go 4-5-1 and shut up shop. We did this and it worked better for a while, but in the end the lack of quality told and people started booing the MGMT/team killing confidence and compounding the situation.

[melonhead]

The only difference this time is we have a team the club feels was good enough for the PL, seeing it is relatively the same, with the losing of Kebe and Maps offset by the additions of Drenthe, Bridge and Williams.

Never good enough for the Premier League and the club knew it. Promotion was as close to an accident as it could come. It was all about form and confidence.

not an accident at all. it was clear that with a little extra investment in jan when anton took over it could be enough to propel us to the prem
think it was 100% the plan to do that, and then use the prem money, and parachutes to fund the improvements to the club infrastructure.
perfect deal in a business, and football/club sense

[melonhead]

I always did have a sense of reality. I could not see how this team was suddenly going to start winning just because it was relegated. The signings were encouraging only if they were part of a larger number of signings, but they turned out to be piecemeal ... parts of a jigsaw only. And this remains a desperately difficult league to get out of, despite the fact we did it twice recently.

I think it is realistic of me to want the team to play better, though. Without the team spirit and dogged tackling we used to have, we look unpromising. Some people say we are trying to play more entertaining football, but I was always entertained by Reading breaking the opposition's hearts through relentless pressing salted by sudden darts up the field. Give me that over the present patchy mix of good play and horribly loose play.

agree 100% with that last bit


the current trend seems to say you can no longer prosper playing that brand of football.
im not so sure.

[melonhead]

I always did have a sense of reality. I could not see how this team was suddenly going to start winning just because it was relegated. The signings were encouraging only if they were part of a larger number of signings, but they turned out to be piecemeal ... parts of a jigsaw only. And this remains a desperately difficult league to get out of, despite the fact we did it twice recently.

I think it is realistic of me to want the team to play better, though. Without the team spirit and dogged tackling we used to have, we look unpromising. Some people say we are trying to play more entertaining football, but I was always entertained by Reading breaking the opposition's hearts through relentless pressing salted by sudden darts up the field. Give me that over the present patchy mix of good play and horribly loose play.

Trouble is, those type of tactics and football style only have a short shelf life. As much as it was entertaining in the sense of constantly pressing and scoring on the counter it only ever works against other limited teams. As soon as you step up in class it gets ruthlessly exposed for what it is and better sides pick you off at will.

is that true, or are you just repeating what a bunch of pundits and have spoon fed you about modern football.
if you do it right wuith the right players that brand of football can take on any other
the problem with us last time was we started off not quite doing it right, then changed the style to one which the players werent really right for.

[Platypuss]

I do not think we went into the Prem with a negativity. We were direct, ambitious and IIRC the first quarter of the season people on here were lambasting us for being too open and to go 4-5-1 and shut up shop. We did this and it worked better for a while, but in the end the lack of quality told and people started booing the MGMT/team killing confidence and compounding the situation.

But the final nail was the January transfer window. McD comprehensively blew that both in terms of what he did sign but also what he didn't.

[JamieY26]

We are what we are. I still love the club and I refuse to write us off at this stage of the season. I am probably one of the few that is actually quite chuffed with what we got in this summer. Can anyone honestly say they could have seen McD and SJM bringing in the likes of Drenthe, Bridge and Williams?....I doubt it. Had we given Noel the 2 years he wanted, we would have all been absolutely happy. Its a fine line between perceiving the summer as a success or a failure. I happen to believe we are currently a stronger squad than the one we began our last Champ season with....im sure many of you will disagree...

[Maguire]

Am I the only person failing to understand what the hysteria is about?

We've had an okay start, only lost one in six matches, fair enough we're not fluid yet but there are still 40 games to go, genuinely amazed by the negativity.

[Royalee]

Am I the only person failing to understand what the hysteria is about?

We've had an okay start, only lost one in six matches, fair enough we're not fluid yet but there are still 40 games to go, genuinely amazed by the negativity.

No, you're not - it's utterly ridiculous.

[Platypuss]

Am I the only person failing to understand what the hysteria is about?

We've had an okay start, only lost one in six matches, fair enough we're not fluid yet but there are still 40 games to go, genuinely amazed by the negativity.

^
The HNA civil service ethos - speaking truth unto morons

[Snowball]

Agreed that had we kept Noel Hunt wed be a few points better off as
he is a good target man who wears down the opposition.

One of my favourite-ever players.

It's easy in hindsight to think "we should have kept him", and yes, as it turns out,
but we surely must have thought we could buy extra "Premiership Class" so were
right to hold out for a one-year-only deal.

I think, perversely we are being handicapped BY ambition.

I fully support the old Reading way of looking for very good deals when buying
and not paying over the odds, but this year we are striving to CLEARLY and immediately
better the team, and that, essentially means Prem-ready players.

The generality of the squad is we are "already top-eight/top-six"
quality so to improve on that you have to be buying, as I said,
Prem-Quality players or players expecting to be in a top-two Championship side.

Couple that with the new riches for the Premiership sides and it's almost
impossible to compete.

In hindsight (again) maybe we could have realised this and gone looking
for the Doyle's, Longs and Michu's.

But, of course, the Nobbers wuld then be screaming about lack of ambition

[melonhead]

Am I the only person failing to understand what the hysteria is about?

We've had an okay start, only lost one in six matches, fair enough we're not fluid yet but there are still 40 games to go, genuinely amazed by the negativity.

agreed- but its no longer amazing to me

[melonhead]

Agreed that had we kept Noel Hunt wed be a few points better off as
he is a good target man who wears down the opposition.

One of my favourite-ever players.

It's easy in hindsight to think "we should have kept him", and yes, as it turns out,
but we surely must have thought we could buy extra "Premiership Class" so were
right to hold out for a one-year-only deal.

I think, perversely we are being handicapped BY ambition.

I fully support the old Reading way of looking for very good deals when buying
and not paying over the odds, but this year we are striving to CLEARLY and immediately
better the team, and that, essentially means Prem-ready players.

The generality of the squad is we are "already top-eight/top-six"
quality so to improve on that you have to be buying, as I said,
Prem-Quality players or players expecting to be in a top-two Championship side.

Couple that with the new riches for the Premiership sides and it's almost
impossible to compete.

In hindsight (again) maybe we could have realised this and gone looking
for the Doyle's, Longs and Michu's.

But, of course, the Nobbers wuld then be screaming about lack of ambition

agreed


and a beautiful pome to boot

[No Fixed Abode]

I think it's just the massive PR blunder by Reading FC which has got everyone's goat.

[melonhead]

agreed with that too


this is happening far too often recently