The Snowball stat thread

[Snowball]

Cardiff have taken 4 points, West Ham 6, Hull 3, Boro 1 and Saints 1 so West Ham would be really big time losers
Strangely Birmingham have not played them yet

It would stir things up nicely!

I THINK this table is about right (Pompey results expunged)


1 27 15-05-07 50 Southampton
2 26 14-05-07 47 West Ham
3 27 13-07-07 46 Birmingham City
4 26 12-10-04 46 Cardiff City
5 27 13-06-08 45 Reading
5 27 12-09-06 45 Middlesbrough
5 27 12-09-06 45 Blackpool

8 27 13-04-10 43 Burnley
9 26 12-04-10 40 Hull

[Snowball]

Update after BRISTOL


Bold Figure is Minutes per Major Contribution (Goal or Assist)






1,469 Minutes 11 Major Contributions one every 134 Minutes 6 Goals 5 Assists ALF (RFC Games)

0,446 Minutes 03 Major Contributions one every 147 Minutes 3 Goals 0 Assists MANSET

1,549 Minutes 09 Major Contributions one every 171 Minutes 2 Goals 7 Assists KEBE

1,513 Minutes 08 Major Contributions one every 187 Minutes 3 Goals 5 Assists HUNT (Set up Pen Chance for Roberts)

1,469 Minutes 07 Major Contributions one every 210 Minutes 6 Goals 1 Assists CHURCH

1,266 Minutes 06 Major Contributions one every 211 Minutes 3 Goals 3 Assists HRK

1,075 Minutes 05 Major Contributions one every 215 Minutes 0 Goals 5 Assists HARTE (INCL 2 half-assists)

2,115 Minutes 09 Major Contributions one every 235 Minutes 4 Goals 5 Assists McAnuff

1,936 Minutes 03 Major Contributions one every 655 Minutes 1 Goals 2 Assists KARACAN

0,745 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 745 Minutes 3 Goals 0 Assists GRIFFIN

2,620 Minutes 03 Major Contributions one every 871 Minutes 3 Goals 0 Assists PEARCE

0,876 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 876 Minutes 3 Goals 0 Assists TABB

1,089 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 1,089 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists MILLS

2,248 Minutes 02 Major Contributions one every 1,124 Minutes 1 Goals 1 Assists L-WOOD

1,964 Minutes 00 Major Contributions one every XXX Minutes 0 Goals 0 Assists CUMMINGS

2,159 Minutes 00 Major Contributions one every XXX Minutes 0 Goals 0 Assists HRK

=================================================================================

0,008 Minutes 01 Major Contributions one every 008 Minutes 0 Goals 1 Assists CYWKA (Won Penalty)
0,078 Minutes 02 Major Contributions one every 039 Minutes 1 Goals 1 Assists Roberts

0,244 Minutes 02 Major Contributions one every 122 Minutes 1 Goals 1 Assists CYWKA (RFC & Derby, League)
0,644 Minutes 04 Major Contributions one every 161 Minutes 1 Goals 1 Assists Roberts (incl Blackburn)
1,903 Minutes 14 Major Contributions one every 136 Minutes 10 Goals 4 Assists Alf (all league games)






The only full assists I don't have direct evidence for are:

Manset - (Cummings) at Brizzle
Manset - v Millwall (I say it was a solo goal)

And I gave an assist to Alf for this (this is the only one debatable)

Finally it paid off. A high ball over the top saw Le Fondre challenge with Sullivan.
The Rovers keeper spilled the ball as a result and Church reacted quickest to race onto the loose ball and tap into a gaping net.


God knows where they get 8 assists for McAnuff

[Ian Herring]

Snowball.

Christ mate!

Chill a little.

'tis but a game of piss-bladder.

[Snowball]

Snowball.

Christ mate!

Chill a little.

'tis but a game of piss-bladder.

i is chill fankoo, jess off to flicks

[paulholsgrove]

Are 'opta index' stats available to view on the web? As these generally tell the club and supporters what they want to know.

[Mr Angry]

I've tried to ignore this thread, as it was Snowball's thread and he is fully entitled to have people respect his viewpoint, but I really can't let this one go.....

.....according to these stats, Manset makes a major contribution (a goal or an assist) every 147 minutes, or in other words, every game and a half (roughly); imho, this shows what an exercise in meaninglessness these stats are, because he hasn't actually GOT any assists, and that 2 of his 3 goals came when he came on as a 68th minute substitute in the very first game of the season.

However, if someone just viewed a players worth through your statistical carpet bombing, an individual who knew nothing about football would be thinking "blimey, why doesn't the Manager play that Manset bloke; he either scores a goal or does an assist EVERY game and a half, Reading would be flying.........."

The reality is - and as a fan I really don't need reams of stats to prove it - we don't create enough chances, our strikers don't put away enough of the chances that are created, and we need more goals from midfield. (Hopefully, this will change after the signings brought in during the Jan tarnsfer window).

Our league position is down to a relatively (to the rest of the Division) tight defensive unit and the defensive midfield combo,(proved by the fact that we have only conceded more than 2 goals in a game once all season) and to the fact that this Division is totally inconsistent.

I don't believe that you can extrapolate any conclusions from these stats, but if Snowball wants to carry on churning them out, thats his perogative.

[Maguire]

Have you given Hunt AND Roberts an assist for the penalty last weekend?

Not picking, just trying to understand.

[chilipepper91]

Manset makes a major contribution (a goal or an assist) every 147 minutes, or in other words, every game and a half (roughly); imho, this shows what an exercise in meaninglessness these stats are, because he hasn't actually GOT any assists, and that 2 of his 3 goals came when he came on as a 68th minute substitute in the very first game of the season.

This is a very salient point. Are this stats for all season or just the last however many games? As we all know the first 6 games of the season are meaningless because the team hasn't settled.

[Maguire]

Manset makes a major contribution (a goal or an assist) every 147 minutes, or in other words, every game and a half (roughly); imho, this shows what an exercise in meaninglessness these stats are, because he hasn't actually GOT any assists, and that 2 of his 3 goals came when he came on as a 68th minute substitute in the very first game of the season.

This is a very salient point. Are this stats for all season or just the last however many games? As we all know the first 6 games of the season are meaningless because the team hasn't settled.

Quite, although apparently every other team in the league had

[Snowball]

Have you given Hunt AND Roberts an assist for the penalty last weekend?

Not picking, just trying to understand.

YES.

I gave Hunt the assist for the brill flick, which had the guy not fouled Roberts
would have put Roberts 1 on 1. Then, when I looked up the minutes-stats I
saw that the web-site routinely gave an assist to the guy who is fouled for the penalty.


Hmmm, tricky. I though the fairest way to look at it was , "A guy that wins a pen gets an assist"

In the same way as "A guy that scores a goal, gets 1 in the goals-scored column"

But the guy who creates the foul situation (like Hunt did with his superb flick) deserves an assist.


There is also the problem of whether to award an assist to a guy who wins a pen that is MISSED.

My view on that is this

If X wins a pen and it's scored by Y X gets an assist
if X wins a pen and it's MISSED by Y, what X did is exactly the same and therefore ought to be an assist.
It's not X's fault that Y's penalty was crap

[Tails]

What if a player squares it to a team mate who is a yard out, empty net, and misses. He gets an assist too?

No goal? No assist.

[Snowball]

Manset makes a major contribution (a goal or an assist) every 147 minutes, or in other words, every game and a half (roughly); imho, this shows what an exercise in meaninglessness these stats are, because he hasn't actually GOT any assists, and that 2 of his 3 goals came when he came on as a 68th minute substitute in the very first game of the season.

This is a very salient point. Are this stats for all season or just the last however many games? As we all know the first 6 games of the season are meaningless because the team hasn't settled.

A team not being settled or being settled doesn't affect a striker's season-long stats.

If we are looking at a given striker we have to mention all his games.

The 6+22 stat is perfectly legitimate (and the OS uses it) but that' for a different reason


But Manset DOES get those figures. They are FACTS. Do you see me ANYWHERE screaming that he should be played
ahead of Roberts, ALF, Hunt? Nope! I have just stuck the figures up. Make of them whatever you like.

I do not necessarily believe that we are a better side with Manset playing but as it
happens i DO believe that had he played in every game he'd be over 10 goals scored.

I had taken Manset's stats OFF this list because they were distorted (small sample)
but I was expanding the list to add all goal-scorers and it felt right to therefore add him back in



I have said many times that a brace of goals can distort figures.
The same happened with Church who came on for 20-something minutes and got a pair
His overall minutes rose by 2% but his goals rose by FIFTY per cent, thus totally skewing the results

[Snowball]

What if a player squares it to a team mate who is a yard out, empty net, and misses. He gets an assist too?

No goal? No assist.

NO. Winning a penalty FOR ME counts as a major Contribution. END.

You can post ten thousand posts disagreeing. That will change NOTHING.

Brian goes on about CYWKA winning a penalty. Does he say, "But it was f---
pointless because McAnuff didn't score!" Of course not.

[SCIAG]

What if a player squares it to a team mate who is a yard out, empty net, and misses. He gets an assist too?

No goal? No assist.

NO. Winning a penalty FOR ME counts as a major Contribution. END.

You can post ten thousand posts disagreeing. That will change NOTHING.

Brian goes on about CYWKA winning a penalty. Does he say, "But it was f---
pointless because McAnuff didn't score!" Of course not.

Surely you should count every goal scoring chance created as an assist then?

[Snowball]

Surely you should count every goal scoring chance created as an assist then?

What's the difference in CULPABILITY
between murder and attempted murder?

If I try to kill you and fail
why is that different from
trying to kill you and succeeding?



If I win a penalty I win a penalty. Someone else is TAKING the penalty.


You seem to say this.

If Hunt wins a penalty and Harte takes it right in the corner and scores, Hunt "deserves" an assist
BUT
If Hunt wins a penalty and Harte takes it right in the corner and the keeper makes a world-class save, that now IN RETROSPECTwhat Hunt did was LESS good.


Stupid doesn't cover it.

[Snowball]

Surely you should count every goal scoring chance created as an assist then?

Stop being thick. I could give you a "chance" with a pass 35 yards out, 30, 25, 20, 15 yards out

are they really equivalent?

Or I could win a penalty, which a good professional SHOULD score EVERY time
if the keeper doesn't cheat

[Snowball]

What if a player squares it to a team mate who is a yard out, empty net, and misses. He gets an assist too?

No goal? No assist.

I consider a penalty "effectively a goal"

[Maguire]

Have you given Hunt AND Roberts an assist for the penalty last weekend?

Not picking, just trying to understand.

YES

So two assists for a penalty that didn't result in a goal?

I mean, they're your stats and everything so feel free to do what you like, but surely that doesn't really make sense?

[Tails]

What if a player squares it to a team mate who is a yard out, empty net, and misses. He gets an assist too?

No goal? No assist.

I consider a penalty "effectively a goal"

Why not just give the penalty taker a goal every time then?

[comeonyouroyals]

This is stupid, it isn't a assist if they don't score, unless you have a column for people assisting missed penalties. What a load of crap by Snowball.