BFTG - Luton

[paultheroyal]

My view of the 2nd goal was only from RoyalsTV. The moment the Luton fellas ran over to the ref complaining, that’s when the ref made his decision. Beforehand neither the ref nor liner saw it.
As for their goal, blatant foul on Lumley when he goes to get the ball, leading it to going upwards. Liner needed to call it. Ref was piss poor as he bottled a chance to send Doughty off in the 2nd half

Agree with the latter two points. However, when it came to the 'goal' and second yellow, the ref was extremely unclear with his signalling. Furthermore, I don't think the AR started to move from where he was stood at the time which he should've done if there was no doubt that a goal had been scored.

This from FIFA:

7. “Goal – no goal” situations
When a goal has been scored and there is no doubt about the decision, the
referee and assistant referee must make eye contact and the assistant referee
must then run quickly 25-30 metres along the touch line towards the halfway
line without raising his flag.

Not entirely sure what you are debating here. It was handball. It was a yellow card. Goal disallowed.

Officials got it absolutely spot on.

No influence from anyone else.

[NathStPaul]

The authority has arrived lads, stop conversing.

[paultheroyal]

Another excellent atmosphere last night. Went quiet late on in first half, Think everyone was picking up on tension and that Luton were turning the screw. Such a difference C1871 have made. But please, if ball goes behind the goal, give it back, it doesnt help anyone. 6 mins of stoppage time become 7:30.

[South Coast Royal]

A valuable point but I didn't see much difference from Pince's time.
Most other teams play pass and move football but we still play pass and stand still and I really wish we would try harder to keep possession(32%).

Agreed that 3 of the back 4 played well as did Lumley but NGW seemed to get caught in possession too often and fortunately in that first half when Luton were well on top they didn't take advantage.

Delighted that QPR ended up only drawing and it does look as though they have the hardest run-in but disappointed that Cardiff got 3 points.

Anything from the Coventry game will be a bonus but I would like us to produce more shots on target (none v Burnley and just 2 last night) so that we give ourselves a much greater chance of a point or three.

[Orion1871]

Another excellent atmosphere last night. Went quiet late on in first half, Think everyone was picking up on tension and that Luton were turning the screw. Such a difference C1871 have made. But please, if ball goes behind the goal, give it back, it doesnt help anyone. 6 mins of stoppage time become 7:30.

If you're going to give it back do what they do in Spain and throw the ball on as the opposition are on a counter attack.

[3points]

Will AC get a one or two game suspension? Normally 2 yellows is just one game, but he's already been sent off this season against Man Utd

[SCIAG]

That having been said, we once again saw clear inconsistencies with the officials' decision making. Later on, a Luton player clearly deliberately handled the ball as he went into an aerial challenge near the touchline yet escaped a yellow.

We have to live with the consequences of officials correctly applying the laws of the game but we shouldn't have to live with them being inconsistent in their application of those very same laws.

Deliberate handball is not a cautionable offence.

There are two clauses in the laws that require certain types of handball to be punished with a caution, when a player:

- handles the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack
- handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal

And DOGSO or denying a goal is obviously a straight dismissal.

Carroll handled in the process of scoring a goal, the Luton player handled in an aerial challenge by the touch line. The officials applied the laws correctly and consistently.

Indeed. Many people's complaints with refs come simply from their ignorance of the rules. I was watching Walthamstow versus Biggleswade on Tuesday, and the 'Stow manager was berating the lino for why the ref had not allowed a drop ball to be contested for them in an attacking position compared to one earlier when Biggleswade were in an attacking position.

The lino calmy explained that drop balls in the box are not contested. Those are the rules. The manager was completely stumped.

As an aside, i feel attempting to deliberately score a goal with your hand is as bad an offence as attempting to stop one with your hand, and should therefore be a straight red.

Attempting to stop is only a yellow.

Actually stopping is a red.

There is a difference between actually scoring and actually stopping. If you get caught scoring a goal with your hand then the goal is disallowed and you have gained no advantage. There is not, however, any mechanism to award the goal that gets blocked with the hand. You can only award a penalty, and ask Asamoah Gyan how that can turn out…

[morganb]

Will AC get a one or two game suspension? Normally 2 yellows is just one game, but he's already been sent off this season against Man Utd

Confirmed as 2 match ban -

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... b=10583109

PARTICIPANT DESCRIPTION SUSPENSION TYPE START END GAMES MATCHES LEFT
Andrew Carroll Second Caution - Law 12 S7 FA First Team 19.04.2023 29.04.2023 2

[Hound]

Predictable ratings there from Karbota. Trying to work out the pattern on them….

[Franconian Royal]

My view of the 2nd goal was only from RoyalsTV. The moment the Luton fellas ran over to the ref complaining, that’s when the ref made his decision. Beforehand neither the ref nor liner saw it.
As for their goal, blatant foul on Lumley when he goes to get the ball, leading it to going upwards. Liner needed to call it. Ref was piss poor as he bottled a chance to send Doughty off in the 2nd half

Agree with the latter two points. However, when it came to the 'goal' and second yellow, the ref was extremely unclear with his signalling. Furthermore, I don't think the AR started to move from where he was stood at the time which he should've done if there was no doubt that a goal had been scored.

This from FIFA:

7. “Goal – no goal” situations
When a goal has been scored and there is no doubt about the decision, the
referee and assistant referee must make eye contact and the assistant referee
must then run quickly 25-30 metres along the touch line towards the halfway
line without raising his flag.

Not entirely sure what you are debating here. It was handball. It was a yellow card. Goal disallowed.

Officials got it absolutely spot on.

No influence from anyone else.

Apart from half a dozen Luton players crowding the ref you mean, good one m9

[andrew1957]

Lumley - 7 I guess, I think a good save and some good commanding of his area but didn’t get enough on the cross for the goal and then had no idea where the ball went.
Yiadom - 7 good solid Yiadom of old performance
Holmes - 7 put in a lot of good work
Sarr - 7 one of his better games for sure
Guiness-Walker - 6 got quite a lot wrong today but defended fairly well
Hendrick - 6 Mr average.
Casadei - 6 some good some not great, lost it a bit too much
Azeez - 6 great couple of balls in, but doesn’t look fit and lost it a lot.
Fornah - 5 I like him and the way he plays, but some errors and didn't link up too well with NGW
Joao - 8 my MotM, really good dropping into the hole getting balls to feet, holding it and getting play moving. At the heart of almost everything we did well going forward
Carroll - ? Stupid challenge for a yellow after his error. Great header to score. Haven't seen the second well enough to decide if he meant to put it in with his hand or not.

Ehibhatiomhan - 6 ran hard
Camara - 7 final ball wasn't there but this kid is good. And he put in work in defence
Abrefa - 6 contributed to get us a point. He's not been as good as his early promise, but this is all invaluable for his development and he's certainly not let us down.

Thx useful as ever.

Wow giving João an 8 and motm. Must've really impressed you. Shame about fornah Azeez and NGW

Snowballs really needs to go to Specsavers, Joao was a 5 at best, MOFTM was Hendrick at 9, and Andy Carroll at 8.
The Loafer of the match was a tie between Fornah and GW at 4.

I would agree that Joao was in the main ineffective so not sure how he gets MOTM. I thought Ehib looked far more lively when he came on. Fornah looked a bit lost out wide and lost the ball a good deal playing out of position. I thought GW was pretty good. He did lose the ball a few times but he was lively coming forwards and pretty good in defence. I also agree that Hendrick had a good game. For me AC would have got MOTM for the first 53 minutes but then ruined it!

[Snowflake Royal]

Lumley - 7 I guess, I think a good save and some good commanding of his area but didn’t get enough on the cross for the goal and then had no idea where the ball went.
Yiadom - 7 good solid Yiadom of old performance
Holmes - 7 put in a lot of good work
Sarr - 7 one of his better games for sure
Guiness-Walker - 6 got quite a lot wrong today but defenddd fairly well
Hendrick - 6 Mr average.
Casadei - 6 some good some not great, lost it a bit too much
Azeez - 6 great couple of balls in, but doesn’t look fit and lost it a lot.
Fornah - 5 I like him and the way he plays, but some errors and didn't link up too well with NGW
Joao - 8 my MotM, really good dropping into the hole getting balls to feet, holding it and getting play moving. At the heartof almost everything we did well going forward
Carroll - ? Stupid challenge for a yellow after his error. Great header to score. Haven't seen the second well enough to decide if he meant to put it in with his hand or not.

Ehibhatiomhan - 6 ran hard
Camara - 7 final ball wasn't there but this kid is good. And he put in work in defence
Abrefa - 6 contributed to get us a point. He's not been as good as his early promise, but this is all invaluable for his development and he's certainly not let us down.

Agreed with a lot of those, both ratings and comments. Joao was much better, although still not sure there was much cohesion between him and Carroll. Sarr probably worth an 8

Think you’re slightly influenced by pre match thoughts with Hendrick. Thought it was his best game in a Reading shirt. Could be wrong but seemed much more involved. Simple passes (but not safe passes as he’s too often been guilty of) and involved defensively.

Fully agree about Hendrick. Also showed a great deal of intelligence and experience after picking up an early yellow card. Managed to get in lots of key challenges (even if some were merely to slightly nick the ball away or hinder a run), particularly when we were down to 10 men, without ever risking a second yellow.

Shame his Newcastle buddy didn't behave the same way!

Happy to be corrected. Just didnt see/notice a lot from him

[RoyalBlue]

My view of the 2nd goal was only from RoyalsTV. The moment the Luton fellas ran over to the ref complaining, that’s when the ref made his decision. Beforehand neither the ref nor liner saw it.
As for their goal, blatant foul on Lumley when he goes to get the ball, leading it to going upwards. Liner needed to call it. Ref was piss poor as he bottled a chance to send Doughty off in the 2nd half

Agree with the latter two points. However, when it came to the 'goal' and second yellow, the ref was extremely unclear with his signalling. Furthermore, I don't think the AR started to move from where he was stood at the time which he should've done if there was no doubt that a goal had been scored.

This from FIFA:

7. “Goal – no goal” situations
When a goal has been scored and there is no doubt about the decision, the
referee and assistant referee must make eye contact and the assistant referee
must then run quickly 25-30 metres along the touch line towards the halfway
line without raising his flag.

Not entirely sure what you are debating here. It was handball. It was a yellow card. Goal disallowed.

Officials got it absolutely spot on.

No influence from anyone else.

Maybe read it again then. We were debating whether the lino and ref saw the handball or whether they were influenced by the reaction of the Luton players. I was stating that I thought they had seen it (based on the fact that the Lino did not react in the way FIFA decree if it had been a fair goal) and made the right decision.

[RoyalBlue]

Agreed with a lot of those, both ratings and comments. Joao was much better, although still not sure there was much cohesion between him and Carroll. Sarr probably worth an 8

Think you’re slightly influenced by pre match thoughts with Hendrick. Thought it was his best game in a Reading shirt. Could be wrong but seemed much more involved. Simple passes (but not safe passes as he’s too often been guilty of) and involved defensively.

Fully agree about Hendrick. Also showed a great deal of intelligence and experience after picking up an early yellow card. Managed to get in lots of key challenges (even if some were merely to slightly nick the ball away or hinder a run), particularly when we were down to 10 men, without ever risking a second yellow.

Shame his Newcastle buddy didn't behave the same way!

Happy to be corrected. Just didnt see/notice a lot from him

People rarely do because he's not a showy player (other than when he scores one of his screamers!) keeps things simple and does the basics well. However, the likes of Gooding, Karacan and Williams do tend to see his contribution for what it is and quite often comment on it.

[RoyalBlue]

That having been said, we once again saw clear inconsistencies with the officials' decision making. Later on, a Luton player clearly deliberately handled the ball as he went into an aerial challenge near the touchline yet escaped a yellow.

We have to live with the consequences of officials correctly applying the laws of the game but we shouldn't have to live with them being inconsistent in their application of those very same laws.

Deliberate handball is not a cautionable offence.

There are two clauses in the laws that require certain types of handball to be punished with a caution, when a player:

- handles the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack
- handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal

And DOGSO or denying a goal is obviously a straight dismissal.

Carroll handled in the process of scoring a goal, the Luton player handled in an aerial challenge by the touch line. The officials applied the laws correctly and consistently.

Thanks for the clarification.

So the one involving the Luton player comes down to the ref's subjective interpretation of 'to interfere with or stop a promising attack.' That's always going to result in one side or the other being pissed off when the situation is such that it could be argued either way.

[Snowflake Royal]

Fully agree about Hendrick. Also showed a great deal of intelligence and experience after picking up an early yellow card. Managed to get in lots of key challenges (even if some were merely to slightly nick the ball away or hinder a run), particularly when we were down to 10 men, without ever risking a second yellow.

Shame his Newcastle buddy didn't behave the same way!

Happy to be corrected. Just didnt see/notice a lot from him

People rarely do because he's not a showy player (other than when he scores one of his screamers!) keeps things simple and does the basics well. However, the likes of Gooding, Karacan and Williams do tend to see his contribution for what it is and quite often comment on it.

Given I hear (unfortunately) their commentary every game, I'm not sure that's really true.

He's tidy on the ball, he just does very little with it and the game passes him by.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Get your bids in for our ‘fans commentator’ next season Ian

[SCIAG]

That having been said, we once again saw clear inconsistencies with the officials' decision making. Later on, a Luton player clearly deliberately handled the ball as he went into an aerial challenge near the touchline yet escaped a yellow.

We have to live with the consequences of officials correctly applying the laws of the game but we shouldn't have to live with them being inconsistent in their application of those very same laws.

Deliberate handball is not a cautionable offence.

There are two clauses in the laws that require certain types of handball to be punished with a caution, when a player:

- handles the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack
- handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal

And DOGSO or denying a goal is obviously a straight dismissal.

Carroll handled in the process of scoring a goal, the Luton player handled in an aerial challenge by the touch line. The officials applied the laws correctly and consistently.

Thanks for the clarification.

So the one involving the Luton player comes down to the ref's subjective interpretation of 'to interfere with or stop a promising attack.' That's always going to result in one side or the other being pissed off when the situation is such that it could be argued either way.

But that's true with every foul. "Professional" fouls are a yellow card because the referee judges that they are done to stop a promising attack, and a red if they prevent an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

[Greatwesternline]

Deliberate handball is not a cautionable offence.

There are two clauses in the laws that require certain types of handball to be punished with a caution, when a player:

- handles the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack
- handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or in an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal

And DOGSO or denying a goal is obviously a straight dismissal.

Carroll handled in the process of scoring a goal, the Luton player handled in an aerial challenge by the touch line. The officials applied the laws correctly and consistently.

Indeed. Many people's complaints with refs come simply from their ignorance of the rules. I was watching Walthamstow versus Biggleswade on Tuesday, and the 'Stow manager was berating the lino for why the ref had not allowed a drop ball to be contested for them in an attacking position compared to one earlier when Biggleswade were in an attacking position.

The lino calmy explained that drop balls in the box are not contested. Those are the rules. The manager was completely stumped.

As an aside, i feel attempting to deliberately score a goal with your hand is as bad an offence as attempting to stop one with your hand, and should therefore be a straight red.

Attempting to stop is only a yellow.

Actually stopping is a red.

There is a difference between actually scoring and actually stopping. If you get caught scoring a goal with your hand then the goal is disallowed and you have gained no advantage. There is not, however, any mechanism to award the goal that gets blocked with the hand. You can only award a penalty, and ask Asamoah Gyan how that can turn out…

All true. But.....if a player attempts to score a goal with his hand and doesn't get spotted it's a goal, every bit as important to a match as the denial of a obvious goal scoring opportunity. If he does get spotted it's a yellow. The risk to reward is quite heavily in the players favour compared to that of a defender who decides to take out a player through on goal. If Carroll wasn't already on a yellow already, his cheating would all things considered have been worth the risk, but it really shouldn't be.

I feel the potential advantage of handballing in a goal, it needs to be a stronger disincentive than a yellow.

I do genuinely believe that on the asamoah gyan situation, the ref should be able to award a penalty goal, same as a penalty try in rugby. It would remove those situations from the game we love entirely as players would have no incentive to do it.