Long - Time to go.

[Ian Royal]

Time to join the stat club. Long has 1 goal from open play in his last 25 league appearances for Reading. Ftr, that's 1 goal from open play in 1,986 minutes of football (done in my head so may not be bang on).

That is poor. How many were 4-4-2 any idea?

[LoyalRoyalFan]

Most of you would be prepared to let Long go when in actual fact we need more strikers not less.

[Ian Royal]

Most of you would be prepared to let Long go when in actual fact we need more strikers not less.

Yes, at the end of the season when we can replace him with two, or one if we bring someone in in January.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

I think Long is our best striker.

Does 99% of the work, just doesn't produce the goals. When he does, he is Premiership standard.

[Royalee]

Most of you would be prepared to let Long go when in actual fact we need more strikers not less.

We need GOOD strikers, so let him go.

[Snowball]

You picked 25 games, ignoring, of course his international start where he scored in open play

These games were the ones that Long played in immediately before your deliberately selective matches.

5 games, six goals, five goals in open play

In fact, for his last 31 starts, Long has scored 11 goals, 8 of them in open play (including his game for Ireland) A goal every 2.8 games

For Reading 10 goals in last 30 games, 7 of them in open play (1 in 3.0) Highly respectable.

00 H 1-0 Barnsley. LONG goal in open play. Long wins the points
00 A 2-1 Doncaster. LONG, header in open play
00 H 2-1 Plymouth. LONG scored in 51st minute OPEN PLAY, then scored second 94th minute penalty WINNER. Long wins the points
00 H 2-2 WBA
01 H 2-4 Aston Villa LONG: Two great goals in open play. Long puts Reading 2-0 up at Half-Time

02 H 4-1 Derby County LONG: Scored a brilliant thirty-yarder in open play
03 H 2-0 Bristol City
04 H 1-0 QPR
05 A 1-1 Middlesbrough
06 A 2-1 Leicester City
07 H 1-1 WBA
08 A 1-2 Ipswich Town
09 A 0-0 Cardiff City
10 H 1-2 Newcastle
11 H 6-0 Peterborough LONG: Great goal in open play
12 A 2-2 Scunthorpe Did Not Start
13 A 0-3 Watford
14 H 4-1 Preston


50% wins. W9 D5 L4 34-22 32 points from 18 games @ 1.78 points per game = 82 point season

Derby: It was not easy for the Malian to control, but he got it under and turned it forward for Shane Long. The Irishman had plenty to do as he took possession 30 yards out, but he took it in his stride, left his man for dead and lashed home low past Stephen Bywater in some style.

Peterboro: Long was obviously keen to score, and he got his name on the sheet just before hour, racing clear of the defence, holding off his man well and stabbing home left footed from ten yards. It was his first in nine games and a good finish.

13 games this season. Won three penalties, scored two, third scored by Harte.

06 goals in last 26 games, 4 of them in open play (1 in 4.3)
10 goals in last 30 games, 7 of them in open play (1 in 3.0)

[Ian Royal]

I think Long is our best striker.

Does 99% of the work, just doesn't produce the goals. When he does, he is Premiership standard.

I think Long is a nearly man who'll never be good enough to play and score regularly for a good championship side (regardless of whether he gets picked or not - just for snowball). He could have been an excellent player but one of Steve Coppell's few, but significant,failures was to not send him out on loan for regular games at a lower level when we were in the Premier League. I think he'd be the player we need if he'd had that experience then.

I can't see him forcing himself to be picked week in week out for two thirds of a season or more, barring injuries, because he just doesn't do the important things well enough consistently.

He's a useful player to us, but we need to move on and get better.

[Snowball]

Time to join the stat club. Long has 1 goal from open play in his last 25 league appearances for Reading. Ftr, that's 1 goal from open play in 1,986 minutes of football (done in my head so may not be bang on).

That is poor. How many were 4-4-2 any idea?

Gwathoppa's stat was a serious distortion of reality.

In Shane Long's last 31 starts (one international) he has scored 11 goals, 8 from open play

[LoyalRoyalFan]

I think Long is our best striker.

Does 99% of the work, just doesn't produce the goals. When he does, he is Premiership standard.

I think Long is a nearly man who'll never be good enough to play and score regularly for a good championship side (regardless of whether he gets picked or not - just for snowball). He could have been an excellent player but one of Steve Coppell's few, but significant,failures was to not send him out on loan for regular games at a lower level when we were in the Premier League. I think he'd be the player we need if he'd had that experience then.

I can't see him forcing himself to be picked week in week out for two thirds of a season or more, barring injuries, because he just doesn't do the important things well enough consistently.

He's a useful player to us, but we need to move on and get better.

Long was only kept at the club during the Coppell years because there was no-one else up front. If Coppell had invested in a striker during our Premiership years...

[Snowball]

This is the stat from a week ago, goals/games, all the data I could find

Now put in Long's last 31 games. Long's CAREER goals places him fairly middle, but in goals-alone terms close to Doyle.

His last thirty games, however has been "purple" by comparison, dramatically improved, and he's playing in a system which makes it harder for him to score.


Maybe this (for all you drongos who know very little about football) is why the manager picks him, week in week out

2.80 LONG last 31 games, 11 goals, 8 from open play[/b]
3.67 Goater
3.98 Kitson
4.80 Doyle
4.89 Rasiak
5.05 LONG, Long, total career <<<<<<<<<<<
5.20 Church
5.40 Noel Hunt
5.50 Antonio
6.56 Gylfi
6.78 Kebe
7.05 Leroy Lita
8.27 Forster (last three seasons)
9.00 Hughes
9.41 Sidwell

[Snowball]

These figures posted earlier were last season, Long's last 17 games

W9 D5 L4 34-22 32 points from 18 games @ 1.78 points per game = 82 point season (one defeat was by top-six Prem side Villa) and the games do NOT include Long's winning-contribution at Liverpool

This season his games are (didn't play at Portsmouth) W6 D3 L4 21-13

Join the two together (Long's last 31 games for Reading where he has scored ten goals, 7 in open play.

48.4% wins P31 W15 D8 L8 55-35 = 53 points from 31 games = 1.65 ppg = 76 point season


So Long has scored 19% of our goals in that time, has won penalties converted by Harte, Siggurdson, and probably Howard, got defenders sent off, had good "assists" or major parts in goals (Pearce, Antonio this year, Gylfi at Leicester - I haven't looked at the games last year for assists) won free-kicks that led to goals (eg McAnuff at Burnley.)

Are people SERIOUSLY saying that Long should be responsible for MORE than 20% of our goals
while at the same time being the battering-ram for players like Gylfi?

[Snowball]

I asked:
Are people SERIOUSLY saying that Long should be responsible for MORE than 20% of our goals
while at the same time being the battering-ram for players like Gylfi?

The answer is "maybe". We seem to have been reliant on one man a bit too much
for example Kitson in a terrible season for goals... Shane is having a dry patch
and is under 20% but is scoring the same as Kitson and Doyle in the 106-season,
the same as our current top-scorer, and not far from Goater

I took a quick glance at the goals for our top-scorers in the league for
complete seasons and what percentage of total goals that constituted.

38% 19 out of 50 2004-05 Kitson
27% 13 out of 48 2006-07 Doyle
27% 16 out of 59 2002-03 Forster
26% 18 out of 69 2008-09 Doyle
25% 10 out of 40 2007-08 Kitson
24% 16 out of 66 2009-10 Gylfi
22% 12 out of 54 2003-04 Goater
18% 10 out of 55 .......... Long's recent games
18% 18 out of 99 2005-06 Doyle and Kitson
18% 04 out of 22 2010-11 Kebe

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I think Long is our best striker.

Does 99% of the work, just doesn't produce the goals. When he does, he is Premiership standard.

Long does a good job a support striker, helping bring others into the game. You just can't play a support striker at the head of a 4-5-1. You need a 20 goal a season player, and that just isn't Shane Long, sadly.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Long does a good job a support striker, helping bring others into the game. You just can't play a support striker at the head of a 4-5-1. You need a 20 goal a season player, and that just isn't Shane Long, sadly.

True, but is isnt Church or Hunt either.

Church looks dump whenever he starts and Hunt cant seem to play more than about 45 mins. So our options are what?

[Snowball]

Long does a good job a support striker, helping bring others into the game. You just can't play a support striker at the head of a 4-5-1. You need a 20 goal a season player, and that just isn't Shane Long, sadly.

True, but is isnt Church or Hunt either. Church looks dump whenever he starts and Hunt cant seem to play more than about 45 mins. So our options are what?

EXACTLY. Long is as tough as nails, we are winning 50% of our games playing him in the role, and we
are currently in sixth place.... and in his last 31 starts (one international) he has scored 11 goals
8 in open play, at a rate of 2.82 games per goal, the same as Doyle's RFC career playing in mostly 4-4-2

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Wed have so many more options up front if we had a no frills striker who you know will get you 10-15 goals a season from 35 odd starts.

We had one in August but let him go for nothing.

For me, thats cost us a shot at the play offs.

[Snowball]

Shane's last 31 (1) games

So 31 games, 11 goals (8 in open play) 4 penalties won, 5 assists


To add to the stats

Shane got 10 goals in 30 or 11 goals in 31 (1) including the international start

He has also won 3 penalties this season and 1 in that spell last season (missed by Gylfi)

He's had two assists this season, and had two assists in the spell last season, plus an assist for Keane's goal

So 31 games, 11 goals (8 in open play) 4 penalties won, 5 assists

Reading v Preston

ASSIST: Just a few minutes later it was 2-0 and again we found the net with a very good goal. Jay Tabb did well to challenge for a loose ball, and the referee played a good advantage as the ball ran to Shane Long. His pass to Jobi McAnuff was perfect, and the winger advanced into the box, cut inside his man with aplomb and curled home low into the corner.

Reading were the dominant side, and Long was denied by a superb Wayne Henderson save.

ASSIST v Doncaster
But the advantage looked much more comfortable when Reading doubled the lead. Church and Long exchanged intricate passes to break on the under-manned Rovers defence and Long nudged it on to Howard in space to his left on the edge of the area. He passed it under Sullivan with a left-footed finish to make it 2-0 and send the traveling support wild.

[Snowball]

Wed have so many more options up front if we had a no frills striker who you know will get you 10-15 goals a season from 35 odd starts.

We had one in August but let him go for nothing. For me, thats cost us a shot at the play offs.

I presume you mean Rasiak? Yes, one of those "unsexy" players like Crouch., also much-maligned.

A good player in 4-4-2, would have loved to see him with Noel Hunt or Longy, but could he take the battering in 4-5-1?

[cmonurz]

Any shred of credibility you had has now disasappeared. You call my stats 'selective' when all I have done is take Long's last 25 league appearances. That's it. What is particularly selective about that apart from the fact that it happens to be a pathetically barren spell of 'striking'?

1 goal from open play in his last 1,986 minutes of league football for Reading. That's an undeniable statistic that is no more selective than to say 'since the last time Long actually scored a few goals for us, exactly how poor has his record been?' There's no 'distortion of reality', just an examination of how terrible this goal drought has actually been.

And you have a decision to make - you refused to answer my point on Defoe/Sheringham as it did not relate to Reading FC - now you present us with some more stats that include Long's appearances for Ireland. I had deliberately avoided this so as not to break your own 'rule'. Are we talking about international football, or games played for Reading? Make a choice.


Ftr, to go back to my stat, of those last 25 league appearances, 24 have been starts. So that's 24 starts, 1 as sub, and 1 goal from open play.

[Snowball]

Any shred of credibility you had has now disasappeared. You call my stats 'selective' when all I have done is take Long's last 25 league appearances. That's it. What is particularly selective about that apart from the fact that it happens to be a pathetically barren spell of 'striking'?

Because it ignores the games he played IMMEDIATELY BEFORE your 25.
When he got 6 goals in 5 games

And you have a decision to make - you refused to answer my point on Defoe/Sheringham as it did not relate to Reading FC - now you present us with some more stats that include Long's appearances for Ireland.
I had deliberately avoided this so as not to break your own 'rule'. Are we talking about international football, or games played for Reading? Make a choice.

No, Gwathoppa, Sherringham-Defoe are two players who have not played for reading and currently do not play for Reading.

I posted no "rule" saying internationals never count.

You are talking about SHANE LONG's current form. I say most of his goal drought is due
to the system and him being asked to play as a lone striker, a role he is relatively
unsuited to. It is TOTALLY RELEVANT that when played in a 4-4-2 he scores a goal
and makes a goal at international level IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS READING DROUGHT
and to pretend otherwise is, at best, extremely ingenuous.

Trappatoni rates him. McDermott rates him.

In his last thirty starts for Reading he has scored 10 goals, 7 from open play. He has won FIVE penalties. He has had 4 assists.

Including the international games he has scored 11 in 31 starts (8 goals from open play) and had an extra assist.

Do you agree or disagree that 11 goals (8 from open play) 1 in 2.82 (Doyle was 1 in 2.65) plus five penalties won, plus 4 assists is a very good record? YES or NO?

Doyle in his 18 goal season, 39 (2) scored 3-3-2-2-2 in 5 games, 6 goals in the other 34 (2) games. That is he played TWENTY-EIGHT (+2) games where he failed to score


GET THAT.

HE SCORED IN 11 GAMES. 26.82%
HE FAILED TO SCORE IN 30 GAMES. 73.18% of his games were blanks

And that's a 6.5 Million Pounds player!!

In his last 30 Reading games Long has scored 10 goals in 8 games 26.67% (Look familiar, Gwathoppa?)
and failed to score in 22 = 73.33%

His scoring compares EXTREMELY WELL with Doyle. His blanks are virtually identical.