The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 27/8

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Svlad Cjelli
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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Svlad Cjelli » 16 Jun 2011 17:50

brendywendy ......
3.at least you are trying to put some sort of value on it i guess. personally i think his printing busines, or his building business will get no leverage out of JM owning some tiny football club that never won owt-you disagree. hoorah.
......


Someone has :

There is also the question of profile and publicity, which surely has a value. In 1990 hardly anyone outside the world of publishing had ever heard the name John Madejski, but now people across the whole globe know his name thanks to the stadium and Reading’s two-year Premier League adventure. I’m not trying to draw any comparison between the size and saleability of the two clubs, but Arsenal’s sale of naming rights of their new stadium to Emirates Airlines netted them £100M for a 15-year deal (or £6.7M a year), whilst in the USA market analysts put the average annual value of naming rights agreements to be between $2m and $4m. If we took a figure for Reading’s naming rights of just 5% of Arsenal’s value, that would equate to just over £333K per year, or a total of £4.33M over the 13 years of the MadStad. Add this to income from an eventual sale.


From : http://thetilehurstend.co.uk/2011/04/05/how-to-make-a-small-fortune-from-football-part-three/

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by brendywendy » 16 Jun 2011 17:59

surely emirates investment is appealing to billions of potential customers, so is worth it
JM is appealing to a handfull of potential business associates and wealthy people who will have no interest in football at all, so its worth no way near that.especially since we arent arsenal, won nuffink, no profile.
ok its worth something, i just think the value is incalculable, and overblown

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Ian Royal » 16 Jun 2011 18:41

This has gone somewhat off topic asn't it.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Svlad Cjelli » 16 Jun 2011 18:44

brendywendy surely emirates investment is appealing to billions of potential customers, so is worth it
JM is appealing to a handful of potential business associates and wealthy people who will have no interest in football at all, so its worth no way near that.especially since we arent arsenal, won nuffink, no profile.
ok its worth something, i just think the value is incalculable, and overblown


Yeah, but having the name Madejski on Match of the Day and sports news bulletin across the world for two years is the sort of exposure that money can't buy - I think 5% of Arsenal's value is a fair estimate.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by brendywendy » 16 Jun 2011 18:58

ill take that as a ballpark estimate i guess.it may get him through doors in the east,or usa he may not have got through without it.and that does have a monetary value. Im semi convinced.


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by brendywendy » 17 Jun 2011 09:52

Ian Royal This has gone somewhat off topic asn't it.



just filling time till something actuallly happens

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Vision » 17 Jun 2011 10:23

Extended-Phenotype We should have been looking for ‘Sig 2’, not buying ‘Church 2’.


Sig2 is just as likely to be found the same way Sig1 was surely?

I take what you say about extra investment maybe making the difference but there's not a manager in the World that doesnt think he's just a player or two short of success. Only 1 in 10 of them can be right though

Your ideal of an extra 1m or 2m here and there on a player might well have stunted the progression of the likes of Gylffi (teenage rookie i think was the disparaging phrase you've used to describe that academy type elsewhere) and even Long. The very players we kick up a stink about losing only became stars for us because of the time we invested in them rather than lspending money we can ill-afford ooking for immediate fixes that historically for us have rarely worked.

And thats the main point for me. We play to our strengths and those strengths over the last decade have mainly been in polishing potential players (turds some might say) into exceptional players so that when they're sold we get to moan on here that its the end of our club.

I take your point about financial investment but my own personal take is that investment in time is just as valid.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Extended-Phenotype » 17 Jun 2011 11:59

You don't need to replace like-for-like if the gaps in the squad are elsewhere and you think you have enough cover for the player lost.


That’s a fair point. I’m happy to agree perhaps this is more a case of conflicting preference then negligence (a preference I still maintain and believe would have been the better option).

spending even a little bit more than we have makes no difference… [there is] little competitive advantage against the insane spenders


Again, I really don’t think you can look at the argument in this manner. You can’t say bringing in a more experienced striker would not have had any benefit, and you can’t justify aversion to higher investment in your own club because others out spend you. You can still use nous to acquire your signings, whatever the cost.

you can go insolvent for any sum of money if you don't have that sum.


While this is true, it’s taking it to the improbable extreme and the point therefore has little impact.


Brendy:

1. After Gylfi left we looked like a team bereft of creativity. And the notion we were desperate in defence is a little embellished – ok we shored things up in September and we all tipped our hats to the mastery of the transfers, then October onwards we weren’t exactly reaping the benefit, and November was awful.

Meanwhile, Gylfi picked up player of the season at Hoffenheim, scoring in nearly every game he played. Are you really suggesting we wouldn’t have been a better side with him in it?

2. You don’t think Reading are more cautious than other clubs at our level? In context, I say we are “playing it safe”. And actually, I don’t think either viewpoint could be considered “stupid”.

3. This argument reminds me of trying to get my dog to eat a worming pill. Maybe if I coated actuality in luncheon meat you’d swallow it. Oh looks like Svlad has already tried. Never mind.

4. No problem, I did my best. Perhaps you will understand when you get older. In the meantime, I won’t join in the celebration of our chairman on the one hand fighting to keep players that on the other, nobody wanted. The inconsistency kinda dampens my enthusiasm.


Vision:

I get your point and I too love our turd-polishing policy; but turds do take time to polish – it’s a strain when the campaign needed something shiny straight away.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing for bias towards transfer over nurture It’s this particular case in which a vital leg falls off our comfy sofa and we just wedge an old book under the wobbly corner. Not to mention how sad it is to see what we have nurtured released without much of a fight.

Which returns me to my original point – a bit more flexibility in our tightly run finances would, in my opinion, benefit the club in the long run, whereas over-stringency may actually be doing more harm then good. But I appreciate my point does kinda bulk me in with the ‘JM OUT, WHERE’S THE MONEY GONE’ brigade. But only in the eyes of critical fundamentalists.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by brendywendy » 17 Jun 2011 12:03

lol- too many numbered points!



im giving up, since its just you me and svlad saying the same shit over and over.


Meanwhile, Gylfi picked up player of the season at Hoffenheim, scoring in nearly every game he played. Are you really suggesting we wouldn’t have been a better side with him in it?


im saying in a team game, its possible that with him in, but the defence seriously weakened we would have been worse off,. so yes, i dont think thats such a left field idea.


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Extended-Phenotype » 17 Jun 2011 12:31

im saying in a team game, its possible that with him in, but the defence seriously weakened we would have been worse off



So, not <i>really</i> giving up then? ;)

Well, like I said the defence didn’t really seem to improve that much apart from a good spell in September. But this was offset with a woeful November. But this is all speculation I suppose – neither of us can really prove Gylfi Reading would have been better or worse than Zurab/Harte Reading. We just have our gut feelings.

However, I’m not so sure we couldn’t have had all three in the team without going bust, especially as we sold Rasiak, Marek, Cisse and Henry. But as you have seen, I’m no accountant, though possibly an anagram of it.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by westendgirl » 17 Jun 2011 13:29

Extended-Phenotype
Well, like I said the defence didn’t really seem to improve that much apart from a good spell in September.


So you don't remember the game away at Leicester - yes we won it thanks to Gylfi and Mills and that was the last day we saw Gylfi play for us. Do you remember the defence that day? Cummings playing left back (much to misgivings all around as the preceived wisdom was that he was s**t) Gunnarsson at right back (he can't last 90 minutes let alone 2 games a week) Pearce (he is slow and useless) and Mills (who should not be playing as he was injured but had to and when he went down early in the game should have gone off but couldn't afford to) and the bench was that defensive team of Church Antonio Davies Robson-Kanu Taylor and Hunt.

That was why we needed to spend on the defence at the end of the transfer window the defence was exceedingly thin.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Extended-Phenotype » 17 Jun 2011 13:47

My bad. By weak, I thought he meant 'poor'. I'd forgotten how thin we were.

But Pearce and Cummings came good, and there wasn't a good word to be heard about Harte until last month; coupled with the fact I believe with other sales we had the money to buy Kish and Harte anyway, I'm still not swallowing this argument with ease.

Oh well. We still haven't replaced our creative midfielder, and now we are flogging the striker who just about covered for that. I suppose if we spend 'wisely' on Vladimir and Estragon, leftback's from Waiting For Godot, we should be okay.

Afterall, we've all these "ones for the future" to look forward to. This could be Manset's season if he can make it to the pitch from the parking lot without cardiopulmonary resuscitation.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Mr Angry » 17 Jun 2011 14:00

E-P; there is at least one poster on here (actually, it IS just 1 poster!!) who will drown you in as many stats as you want that actually, yes, the team IS BETTER WITHOUT GYLFI.

:wink:

As for bringing in a striker to come into the 1st team in January, I agree, that would have been the sensible thing to do, and for all we know, the club tried to do it, but failed. However, bringing in an experienced striker ISN'T A GUARANTEE that the team would be better with that player in it; don't think so??

Torres.


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Snowball » 17 Jun 2011 14:14

Saying our defence didn't improve flies in the face of the facts

5 goals conceded in 4 games = 1.25 per game = 57-58 conceded per season

46 goals conceded in next 42 games = 1.09 per game = 50 goals per season

ATTACK

05 goals in 04 games = 1.25 per game = 57-58 per season
72 goals in 42 games = 1.59 per game = 79 goals per a season

Our defense improved by almost 8 goals a season, our attack improved by 21 goals. These are huge differences.

Of course Gylfi only played those first four games, but our ppg without him this season (1.72 ppg) is far far better than our ppg with him playing in the previous season (1.37 from memory)

Last season we conceded 63 goals, this season 51, more proof

If you take the second half of season 2009-10 (from Dec 28, losing Rodgers) we were 43-28. (40 points)
A bit "selective" but double that to make 46 games and we'd be 86-56 GD 30 and 80 points.

86-56 GD 30 = 80 Points Second half of 2009-10
77-51 GD 26 = 77 Points 2010-11


Not a lot of difference, really. You could pu the difference down to the "crazy" Sheff U game...

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Mr Angry » 17 Jun 2011 14:20

Mr Angry E-P; there is at least one poster on here (actually, it IS just 1 poster!!) who will drown you in as many stats as you want that actually, yes, the team IS BETTER WITHOUT GYLFI.

:wink:



8)

As easy as shelling peas.........

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Extended-Phenotype » 17 Jun 2011 14:22

Mr Angry,

Not a guarantee, Aye – we sort of covered that earlier; but the willingness to be more flexible financially does increase the pool within which you search for the right man. Again, people seem to think you either spend SHIT loads OR nothing, or buy a player with millions OR buy a player with nous. I’m not arguing we drop scouting and research, click “sort” on the spreadsheet and pick the highest evaluation.

Torres was an awful purchase. My mum, who watches football as often as Christopher Reeves tap-danced in his final year, said to me on the phone one day “…why did they buy Torres? Sounds like a lot of money for someone who isn’t doing very well.”

I declare that example moot.


As for the anti-Gylfi stats, well – stats are bollocks really, aren’t they? I mean, let’s say you add up the goals scored per game WITH Gylfi, and then goals scored per game after he left, and the later was higher. What does that even mean? We could have smacked in four times as many goals, and I’d still say we looked less creative then we did with him in the side.

Unfortunately, you can never run the same games twice over (once with Gylfi, once without) as a control to demonstrate. For that reason, when we mince Crystal Palace 4-0 without Siggy because the ref likes Shane Long’s arse and the Palace lads caught scabies that day after a pigeon flew into the tumble dryer when the kit man went for a piss, I’m not really going to hail the statistic as a defining factor.

Instead, I’ll use my eyes and brain to surmise that, far too many times this season, we looked bloody clueless. If we’d have had a spark of creativity, maybe some of those draws would be wins. Stupid little statititions won't change that perception - you can't watch football on Ceefax.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Extended-Phenotype » 17 Jun 2011 14:32

and...

Snowball:

Our defence DIDN’T improve, because the two players we brought in to improve it, consistently arsed up and cost us goals.

Again, get your stats out to suggest otherwise but I suggest watching the football instead of playing Barcode Battler. The stats could be reflective of anything. Each game is not an exact replication of the other. We played different teams, different weather, different referee’s, the opposition could have had an off day, or an exceptional day, our lads might have been lucky or unlucky, a tiger may have run onto the pitch and eaten Griffin’s catheter – the numbers just don’t mean anything tangible.

Football has to many executables to analyse with numbers. So like, don’t bother.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Snowball » 17 Jun 2011 14:33

Mr Angry
Mr Angry E-P; there is at least one poster on here (actually, it IS just 1 poster!!) who will drown you in as many stats as you want that actually, yes, the team IS BETTER WITHOUT GYLFI.

:wink:



8)

As easy as shelling peas.........


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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Royal Rother » 17 Jun 2011 14:34

Stats on a big enough sample provide excellent clues / information as to what works and what doesn't. Sure they are open to interpretation but that's where the skill comes in. Every decent club will have someone (or more than one) who collates, analyses and interprets those stats.

The eyes will witness games and performances through RTGs / STGs and which ones are worn could be dependent on your mood or personal bias. Stats are cold and hard and, whilst certainly not telling the whole story, tell more truth than any individual poster on this board whose opinion is only formed from being eye witness to a game.

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Re: The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 13/6

by Vision » 17 Jun 2011 14:36

Extended-Phenotype and...

Snowball:

Our defence DIDN’T improve, because the two players we brought in to improve it, consistently arsed up and cost us goals.

Again, get your stats out to suggest otherwise but I suggest watching the football instead of playing Barcode Battler. The stats could be reflective of anything. Each game is not an exact replication of the other. We played different teams, different weather, different referee’s, the opposition could have had an off day, or an exceptional day, our lads might have been lucky or unlucky, a tiger may have run onto the pitch and eaten Griffin’s catheter – the numbers just don’t mean anything tangible.

Football has to many executables to analyse with numbers. So like, don’t bother.


This isn't going to end well.....

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