Adkins -what next?

[leon]

tbf Ian, more people on this board think that they're you than want to keep Adkins - which is a rather worrying development for everyone.

[leon]

Unemotional reasoned common sense is as good as a foreign language on Football Forums, so yes, I think you are onto something here Ian.

Is that what they speak at your club RR?

[Royal Rother]

Just back from the pub Leon?

[leon]

Just back from the pub Leon?

errr no, just having a break from decorating my daughter's room.

What are you trying to suggest RR?

[Eaststandman]

Oh and I'll add that any new manager who isn't going to get significantly supported financially would have to be a repulsive blood and thunder anti-football type. And that sometimes relegation is exactly what a club needs to bounce back.

See Norwich for example. Saints for a slightly slower bounce. There are others.

Comes back to what I said in another thread yesterday. The two biggest factors in good performance are confidence and form. Sometimes it's better to go straight down and start again, than to cling on to safety by your finger tips year on year until you finally succumb and slip away quietly for a long time.

Hold on. You're saying the best way for us to improve our current league position is to get relegated?

Are you fucking mad?

I usually read IR's posts and find many to be sensible and objective, (albeit not what some wish to hear) however, on this occasion "methinks the lady doth protest too much"

[Royal Rother]

Just back from the pub Leon?

errr no, just having a break from decorating my daughter's room.

What are you trying to suggest RR?

I thought 2 slightly odd posts on the trot suggested a hint of merriness. Maybe it's the fumes.

[leon]

Just back from the pub Leon?

errr no, just having a break from decorating my daughter's room.

What are you trying to suggest RR?

I thought 2 slightly odd posts on the trot suggested a hint of merriness. Maybe it's the fumes.

I think you're assuming I'm using oil based paint.

[RoyalinBracknell]

il:

He won promotion from this division with a newly promoted Southampton. Yes, he has a track record.

Things certainly seem to be getting worse, but I don't see what good sacking him would do.

Paying off Drenthe's contract is laughable. He isn't even at the club. If our players are worried about how much he's earning then they're idiots. Would they really feel better knowing he'd got a big lump sum instead?

Also @ any attempts to pin our downturn in form on Guthrie. He's been injured all season, and our form was significantly better with him in the side.

Back on topic, I don't see much point in sacking Adkins unless we replace him with someone with a proven track record of improving teams defensively.

My point being, clearly, how can he say he is IMPROVING?? Just get rid and get someone in who is hungry and wants to give it a go, not harping back to what he USED to be like

Because, you know, generally the best method of learning is by trying and failing. I think you're confusing him saying he's improving, with our performance improving. Probably better for him to say he's learning.

There's some hilariously stupid suggestions on this thread.

I said about two months ago this is the earliest he'd possibly be sacked and only if we were right in the relegation mix or fans had been actively and loudly calling for his head at a couple of home games. Neither of those has happened yet, so he's got until early January at least if anyone wants to have a moment of realism.

I stopped listening at three, but it sounded like we conceded first because of a young defender who'd previously been very good getting caught out (midfield [weakened to accommodate Cox as per fan demands] then went missing quickly for 2). We then seemed back in the game at 2-1, only for the same previously very good young defender to drop another clanger and realistically put us out of it. I'm assuming that what went next was either cavalier attacking and being punished on the break or confidence falling apart and returning to chucklebrother defending of a month ago.


As for Adkins staying or going, if he's going to go it has to be for at least one of three reasons.
1) We're going down under him - in which case we can try to roll the dice even if there's no options to support a new manager financially.
2) He's completely lost the crowd and there are loud Adkins out chants across consecutive home games.
3) We actually have an option of improving the squad significantly - so he'd need to go about nowish.

One isn't there yet by any stretch, two hasn't happened yet, three doesn't appear to be an option.

He's not doing very well, but his hands have largely been tied and he's proved at previous clubs he's a good manager. Not only that, but he's got a very good record at getting clubs into the Championship from League One, so even if we get relegated keeping him isn't an awful idea in that respect.[/quote]



So Brian McDermott should have got sacked for having us on the verge of relegation from the Premier League (having got us there) despite proving himself as an excellent Championship manager but Nigel Adkins should possibly be allowed to get us relegated to League One and survive?

Surely it is better to change manager before we potentially get dragged into a full-on relegation battle? Equally if there is reason to believe that another manager would do better with this current group of players and be a better fit for the club surely the change is worth making (presuming we can afford to do it without significant setbacks from FFP?

[Woodcote Royal]

So Brian McDermott should have got sacked for having us on the verge of relegation from the Premier League (having got us there) despite proving himself as an excellent Championship manager but Nigel Adkins should possibly be allowed to get us relegated to League One and survive?

Surely it is better to change manager before we potentially get dragged into a full-on relegation battle? Equally if there is reason to believe that another manager would do better with this current group of players and be a better fit for the club surely the change is worth making (presuming we can afford to do it without significant setbacks from FFP?

Ian Royal is fast becoming a Dalek about to meets it's maker "Exterminate, Exterminate, Exterminate"

The alternative, of course, is to concede that he has filled these pages with 5000? posts of utter shite over the last 2 years but he could never get his head out of his arse for long enough to do that

[paultheroyal]

Sometimes it's better to go straight down and start again, than to cling on to safety by your finger tips year on year until you finally succumb and slip away quietly for a long time.

[madstadblues]

I don't have any answers and it is a bit shit at the moment but we need to off load those out of contract players (who know they won't get as good terms & must effect their heads) regroup and go again next season. We will end up mid table which means more WLD sequences through out the season. Those muppets (cw perhaps the exception) in the press don't help by pouring fuel on the fire to make their jobs more interesting. (Who is really interested in rowing )

Interesting stats out there

Nigel Adkins career win rate 48% (36% @ Reading)
Tony Pullis career win rate 36.7% (spent 8mill on kitson and sonko)

[MmmMonsterMunch]

I am just that effectively 32% of voters do not want him gone immediately.

Just how bad must it get guys?!

[MmmMonsterMunch]

I don't have any answers and it is a bit shit at the moment but we need to off load those out of contract players (who know they won't get as good terms & must effect their heads) regroup and go again next season. We will end up mid table which means more WLD sequences through out the season. Those muppets (cw perhaps the exception) in the press don't help by pouring fuel on the fire to make their jobs more interesting. (Who is really interested in rowing )

Interesting stats out there

Nigel Adkins career win rate 48% (36% @ Reading)
Tony Pullis career win rate 36.7% (spent 8mill on kitson and sonko)

What that stat doesn't take into account is the fact that Pulis turned Stoke into a decent mid table Prem side. As a manager of a football league side, your win ratio will undoubtedly dip somewhat when you start mixing it with the big boys.

[Royal Rother]

Things are looking a bit rubbish right now but I said at the start of the season I'd be more than happy with mid-table finish and a group of our youngsters being well-blooded. For me that would be a better season than a near miss / play-off loss.

Looks like it's panning out that way so (as someone who doesn't go to games so has a minimal frustration of current performances) I don't have much of a problem. 6-1 isn't nice but I suspect there'll be some harsh but useful lessons learned from that experience.

I'm not suggesting there's an easy solution but the best way a club of this size can really progress is become largely self-sufficient for players and selling them on. Blocking their progress by bringing in players from outside in the chase for promotion year on year at the expense of financial stability is folly.

I don't really care much whether Adkins stays or goes myself, but I do rate stability in the managerial position highly, and when times are hard a lot of patience is required.

That's in very short supply in the football world these days.

[P!ssed Off]

I am just that effectively 32% of voters do not want him gone immediately.

Just how bad must it get guys?!

I'm that only 12% of voters understood the purpose of the poll.
No matter how much you dislike Adkins, every nobber has a responsibilty to take the piss out of Ian Royal.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

If you think this is panning out to be a mid table season you are sadly mistaken.

Surely you can see that results AND performances are getting worse? What part of this are you struggling to grasp RR? 3 wins in 15? The worst defensive record in the football league? GD worsening with each game?

Where is this progress you hope to gain from this managerial 'stability' as you put it?

How has this team improved / progressed under Adkins' stewardship?

I am genuinely intrigued as to what your answer is.

[Royal Rother]

I don't have any answers and it is a bit shit at the moment but we need to off load those out of contract players (who know they won't get as good terms & must effect their heads) regroup and go again next season. We will end up mid table which means more WLD sequences through out the season. Those muppets (cw perhaps the exception) in the press don't help by pouring fuel on the fire to make their jobs more interesting. (Who is really interested in rowing )

Interesting stats out there

Nigel Adkins career win rate 48% (36% @ Reading)
Tony Pullis career win rate 36.7% (spent 8mill on kitson and sonko)

What that stat doesn't take into account is the fact that Pulis turned Stoke into a decent mid table Prem side. As a manager of a football league side, your win ratio will undoubtedly dip somewhat when you start mixing it with the big boys.

Really? Not the case with Pulis as it happens.

Bournemouth 107 / 28.97%
Gillingham 216 / 43.52%
Bristol City 33 / 30.30%
Portsmouth 35 / 31.43%
Stoke City 131 / 35.88%
Plymouth Argyle 39 / 30.77%
Stoke City 333 / 36.64%
Crystal Palace 28 / 42.86%
Total 922 / 36.77%

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Fair enough. Would have Pulis here in a heartbeat though.

[Royal Rother]

If you think this is panning out to be a mid table season you are sadly mistaken.

Surely you can see that results AND performances are getting worse? What part of this are you struggling to grasp RR? 3 wins in 15? The worst defensive record in the football league? GD worsening with each game?

Where is this progress you hope to gain from this managerial 'stability' as you put it?

How has this team improved / progressed under Adkins' stewardship?

I am genuinely intrigued as to what your answer is.

You need to appreciate that I come at things from a different and almost entirely unemotional perspective, because I don't go to games and only watch via TV or Internet when games don't clash with Windsor.

I certainly appreciate the difference that makes and it regularly gets rammed down my neck. Big whoop.

I look at the table and the results, and read unbiased reports in largely the same way as I do with regard to other teams in the various divisions. I might prove to be wrong in this case but over many years it is my perception that the clubs who respect stability and show patience when things get tough (for an experienced manager with a decent pedigree) often get rewarded with improved performances over time. It is never just about the here and now - it is never just about the bit that is in the public eye. NEVER.

And I personally think that RFC will probably be better off sticking rather than twisting.

I'm not suggesting my opinion is worth more than anyone else's but it might be of some small interest in that it comes from someone who is far more unemotional in the whole thing, and largely untainted by shit performances.

I would say that I often listen to BBCRB in their football reviews and previews and I do find myself with a natural inclination to balance out the over-emotional rantings of Tim Dellor and the Raving Texters...

[MmmMonsterMunch]

But football is about emotion & passion.....that's why fans follow their club to the ass end of nowhere on a Tuesday night in December.