Not Hard to see progress for the forseeable future

[Franchise FC]

OK, so say we get promoted - are you not in the slightest bit concerned that we won't improve our playing style or the team to any significance and we'll get hammered week in, week out?

Actually, no.

Because we won't have the same line up next season if we go up.

Possibly/probably SSC will leave and I don't see a new manager settling for what we've got.
If SSC stays, I don't see him wanting to go out with another relegation on his cv.

As it happens, it doesn't matter. I'd rather we got the chance to find out.

And by the way, this current RFC team is better than the Derby of last year.

[Schards#2]

OK, so say we get promoted - are you not in the slightest bit concerned that we won't improve our playing style or the team to any significance and we'll get hammered week in, week out?

Actually, no.

Because we won't have the same line up next season if we go up.

Possibly/probably SSC will leave and I don't see a new manager settling for what we've got.
If SSC stays, I don't see him wanting to go out with another relegation on his cv.

As it happens, it doesn't matter. I'd rather we got the chance to find out.

And by the way, this current RFC team is better than the Derby of last year.

So, we'll probably lose the manager who can work miracles with limited resources, we need significant investment and we have a chairman who is unlikely to make that investment as he's looking to leave. That may blight our progress. Where have I heard these arguments before?

[Schards#2]

I don't think anyone is saying that yesterday's game was anything other than as you describe it. The fact remains that we got a point away from home, we are still in second place and will quite probably be promoted again this season. What i object to is the fact that you are taking yesterday's game and a few others as being typical of our season when it quite obviously isn't.

Isn't it?

I'd say it was more typical than the Wolves or Bristol away games.

We have played poorly in many games and got a result, yesterday's effort was probably particuarly poor but not significantly different to games like Blackpool, Norwich, Coventry, Wolves and Doncaster at home, all of which we won.

[readingbedding]

OK, so say we get promoted - are you not in the slightest bit concerned that we won't improve our playing style or the team to any significance and we'll get hammered week in, week out?

Actually, no.

Because we won't have the same line up next season if we go up.

Possibly/probably SSC will leave and I don't see a new manager settling for what we've got.
If SSC stays, I don't see him wanting to go out with another relegation on his cv.

As it happens, it doesn't matter. I'd rather we got the chance to find out.

And by the way, this current RFC team is better than the Derby of last year.

There are many reasons why I can't see Coppell leaving.
Most importantly, I am sure that he would not want to be seen as a limited manager who's sole gift to football management is getting teams into the top tier.
He is not that, but if I was him my pride and determination would not allow even a hint of that accusation to be levelled whatsoever.
You're only tired in your job, if you're unhappy.

[Franchise FC]

So, we'll probably lose the manager who can work miracles with limited resources, we need significant investment and we have a chairman who is unlikely to make that investment as he's looking to leave. That may blight our progress. Where have I heard these arguments before?

Probaly the sameplace you heard the arguments that we wouldn't be mid-table mediocrity - but then you know that.

I for one am going to enjoy this season and worry about next when it gets here.

[readingbedding]

This is my favourite quote for this week.

A totally wasted season that simply puts any genuine stab at a return to the prem back twelve months.

[Schards#2]

So, we'll probably lose the manager who can work miracles with limited resources, we need significant investment and we have a chairman who is unlikely to make that investment as he's looking to leave. That may blight our progress. Where have I heard these arguments before?

Probaly the sameplace you heard the arguments that we wouldn't be mid-table mediocrity - but then you know that.

I for one am going to enjoy this season and worry about next when it gets here.

Good luck enjoying the sort of performances seen recently.

Mediocre we certainly are. The only reason we aren't mid table is that the other sides are even worse.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is 2nd in the table.

[readingbedding]

More retarded guff.

[Franchise FC]

I don't think anyone is saying that yesterday's game was anything other than as you describe it. The fact remains that we got a point away from home, we are still in second place and will quite probably be promoted again this season. What i object to is the fact that you are taking yesterday's game and a few others as being typical of our season when it quite obviously isn't.

Isn't it?

I'd say it was more typical than the Wolves or Bristol away games.

We have played poorly in many games and got a result, yesterday's effort was probably particuarly poor but not significantly different to games like Blackpool, Norwich, Coventry, Wolves and Doncaster at home, all of which we won.

OK you asked for it :

Forest (A) - poor
Plymouth (H) - good
Charlton (A) - poor
Palace (H) - good
Ipswich (A) - poor
Sheff Wed (H) - good
Watford (A) - good
Swansea (H) - good
Wolves (A) - good
Burnley (H) - good
Preston (A) - poor
Doncaster (H) - poor
QPR (H) - poor
Burnley (A) - good
Bristol C (A) - good
Derby (H) - good
Sheff Utd (A) - good
Southampton (H) - poor
Cardiff (A) - good
Coventry (H) - good
Barnsley (A) - good
Blackpool (H) - poor
Norwich (H) - poor
Birmingham (A) - good
Cardiff (H) - good
Southampton (A) - poor
Watford (H) - good
Swansea (A) - poor
Wolves (H) - poor
QPR (A) - poor

That's 13 poor out of 30 - poor does not appear to be typical.

[CMRoyal]

The only reason we aren't mid table is that the other sides are even worse.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is 2nd in the table.

I think this is where you undermine your perfectly reasonable points, schards. There's a certain amount of credibility in the argument that the team is still in a decline, and that the promotion campaign has developed into something of an attritional slog. But you can't seem to admit that you were wrong when you said that we'd finish mid-table, and so come out with these silly non-sequitors and borderline personal insults. Big picture, you have many good points. Smaller picture (ie after every under-par performance), it all gets just a little bit petty point-scoring.

[Schards#2]

The only reason we aren't mid table is that the other sides are even worse.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is 2nd in the table.

I think this is where you undermine your perfectly reasonable points, schards. There's a certain amount of credibility in the argument that the team is still in a decline, and that the promotion campaign has developed into something of an attritional slog. But you can't seem to admit that you were wrong when you said that we'd finish mid-table, and so come out with these silly non-sequitors and borderline personal insults. Big picture, you have many good points. Smaller picture (ie after every under-par performance), it all gets just a little bit petty point-scoring.

I'm not going to trail through the hundreds of pages on the thread but about a month or so ago I accepted that we would not be finishing mid table. The main reason that my prediction was wrong was that I underestimated just how poor every other side is. And I mean EVERY other side. Watching Birmingham last night, once again, they were awful as they have been every game i've seen them this season. From what i've seen of Wolves, they are poor. This division is as bad as it's ever been IMHO. Reading have played better than I anticipated but only marginally so.

As for posting after every under par performance, please feel free to quote my comments after previous dismal showings - i'll save you looking by telling you won't find any as I choose not to to avoid being labelled a knee jerk whinger to every bad result.

As for "borderline personal insults", don't know what you are referring to there but have a look at the pages and pages of completely unborderline insults on the other thread thrown from those who can't tolerate an opinion different to theirs.

[readingbedding]

0-0 at Loftus Road is not a bad result.

[Rex]

0-0 at Loftus Road is not a bad result.

But the style of play was most of the time shocking and a hopeful slog. We got away with it yesterday with brum plying their trade just as badly.

[readingbedding]

Of course, that's football.

But 0-0 is not a bad result.
That is my point.

[Millsy]

OK, so say we get promoted - are you not in the slightest bit concerned that we won't improve our playing style or the team to any significance and we'll get hammered week in, week out?

This is exactly the point I made on Schards' famous thread.

Yes we clearly didn't need sea changes and I violently opposed any idiot who was against the carpark crew and on the whole (with the benefit of hindsight of course) we can laugh at that thread BUT I honestly cannot see us doing amazingly well in the Prem for the following reasons:

1) Last time we went up we had a MUCH better team (no disrespect to current team who are ok).

2) Last time we went up we had a team that was unknown. As soon as we were 'known' next season we got found out and were thrashed and relegated. This time we won't be as unknown as we were last time.

So we will have a lesser team, won't be an unknown quantity with the same set up.... what on earth is making us think we'll stay up?

Unless there IS a sea change in TRANSFER and WAGE STRUCTURE policy allowing Coppell - unlike last time - to bring in whoever he wants AND WITH MUCH LARGER WAGES ALLOWED we simply will not survive and it will be very hard to see progress for the future.

Yes all this brick-by-brick is important but we've tried it before in the Prem and it's simply NOT WORKED. You CAN'T survive with a moderately increased wage-structure in the Prem. You have to at some point bite the bullet and accept that the Prem DOES require a bit more oomph and a wage structure worthy of bringing in decent players, not resorting to total gambles on european imports. Even that won't work now with the weak pound anyway!

From Madejski's words when we got relegated it sounded like the main thrust of his Prem financial policy was such that IF we got relegated we'd survive. Well that's fine, and it's worked, and here we are as a result surviving and doing well. But is that what's going to happen EVERY time? We go up, come down, pat ourselves on the back for surviving the drop and then push to go up again? NO because we won't always have Coppell to take that crap.

IF we go up this time WE NEED TO HAVE A DIFFERENT POLICY THAN WHAT WE DID LAST TIME.

[PEARCEY]

Yes I certainly hope we are more ambitious if we do go up as several signings are going to be needed to make us competitive particularly at centre half which really concerns me. Whilst it does not necessarily mean the club need to spend squillions of pounds on new signings I hope the lessons of summer 2007 are learnt and more appropriate signings than two unknown French players, ie Fae and Cisse are brought to the club.

[Hampshire Royal]

Back in the day we paid (Ithink) 20,000 for Shorey who very quickly proved to be a very good player for us. In the summer Villa paid 3 million for the same palyer, who can't even get a gane fir them. We paid (I think) 120,000 for Kitson who, again proved to be a very good player for us. We sold him to Stoke for 5 million, and he's proving to be a failure for them. We got Sonko on a free (I think) and he turned out to be a very good signing for us. We sold him to Stoke for 1 million and he, again, has proved to be a failure for them. We paid 78,000 for Doyle and he hasn't turned out badly for us.

How much have Sunderland, Newcastle, Man City and Tottenham paid for players? Any of them could go down. Spending vast ampounts of money does not guarantee success. To some extent it's not who you buy, even, but how you use them. Time and time again Coppell has shown that he doesn't need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on players to get the success he has had and will continue to have at Reading (I hope).

[Don Finch]

Of course, that's football.

But 0-0 is not a bad result.
That is my point.

It is/was a point and in terms of results, a good point. If this thread is about progress then we have to ask if our current style of football will cut it in the Premiership. After watching plenty of games this season consisting of some truly dog sh1t football, then the answer IMO is no. We will not be grinding out any results in the Prem like we have been this season, and if you think we'll finish up any better than our last season in the Prem you're in you're in for a shock.
Good result? Yes
Poor football? Yes
Progress? We'll get promoted, but unless we invest in central midfield we're coming straight back down.

[Ian Royal]

For the record Schards. We did play well against Watford. Some people just don't have the wit to see it. We also played pretty well against Wolves. Not up to the same standard we've apparently seen this season and certainly not up to 05/06 or 06/07, but then as I said earlier you'd have to be a dribbling imbecile to think you were going to see performances of that quality regularly this season.


Your post certainly seems like another knee jerk reaction. Afterall as I've pointed out before, as have others, QPR were one of the division's form teams and a draw at their place is not a bad result. And of course there is at least one neutral report - the only one I've read - that we were the better team. And I say again, it sounded like we had two or three good chances to win the game, that just didn't go our way.

[Sun Tzu]

The main reason that my prediction was wrong was that I underestimated just how poor every other side is
------

No it wasn't.

The reasons your prediction was wrong were :

- you believed Coppell had lost interest (which he clearly hasn't)
- you believed Coppell should have been replaced in the summer (which would not appear to have been a good move)
- you believed we had no team spirit (which we clearly do)
- you believed we had players fighting to leave the club and they wouldn't be replaced (players who left have been more than adequately replaced, there has been some paper talk about a player wanting to go)
- you believed JM would no longer back Coppell (no evidence of that at all)
- you had no faith that we'd bring any young players through ( jury still out. We've had 4 academy players playing in the league but none have established themselves although I would argue 3 of the 4 have made good progress this season)

The original comments were all about what was wrong with RFC, there was no reference to any other teams. It was pretty obvious right from the start that the division wasn't especially strong this season although I'd say we're experiencing a failry normal season this time whereas last time round was extraordinary and has rather coloured our view.