Arsenal: Back from the procession

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Vision
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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Vision » 18 Dec 2012 10:07

southbank1871 Also, did we really play the goal music for our two goals?


LOL. I'm saving my real vitriol for when the official site starts referring to it as a 7 goal thriller.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by clauski » 18 Dec 2012 10:10

Vision
We have to deal with it on our terms with what qualities we possess. It can be done, Swansea and Norwich are showing that with (on paper) a group of players that mostly would have fallen into the journeyman category before they hit the Premiership.

Even with the limited resources available though, can we honestly say we've made the most of our transfer dealings or utilised the players we do have to the best of our ability?


No, we haven't. Our two "big money" signings in the summer were Gunter and Mariappa which sums that one up. But we put ourselves on the backfoot by continuing to be over prudent, even with a new owner. To take your examples above, Norwich and Swansea each spent £10m the summer they went up, we spent £5m. McDermott is talking again about clubs nearly going out of business. I'm sorry but what is this basis? Portsmouth is it, and only Portsmouth. And they were extremely mismanaged financially, not comparable with other teams who are investing but not necessarily beyond unrealistic means. The way we approach it is like saying no more retailers should open shops because Comet just failed.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by trueroyal1871 » 18 Dec 2012 10:25

Ian Royal Federici - 8 MOTM not much you can do with Arsenal breaking through the porous blue and white gauze infront of him. Some good saves - I wouldn't say many were great, Arsenal giving him more chance than they should maybe.
Cummings - 4 part of the defensive shambles
Mariappa - 3 see above
Gorkss - 4 one of his best games this season, I thought. Didn't notice many hugely glaring errors
Shorey - 5 sadly he's catching bad aids of the defence.
Leigertwood - 2 hopeless.
Tabb - 6 he gives the ball away not too often, tries hard, gets stuck in, runs. But he's got nothing to work with and he's not good enough really.
McAnuff - 4 perked up when he went through the middle. A little anyway. He knows we're down.
Kebe - 6.5 caused some danger - defensively weak, but hey, wouldn't have mattered if he'd played like Ashley Cole at his best
Pog - 6 bugger all to work with, was it me or did he look a shade quicker and lighter?
Hunt - 5 bless he tries but he's just not good enough

ALF - 6.5 scored his only real chance and registered a SO later. Had bugger all service obviously but was game
HRK - 7 looks a real player sometimes. Others looks predictable and mediocre. Today was a good day
McCleary - 6 well he's fast, but I'm not sure I really rate him.

McDermott 1st Half: 1 (that's for actually managing to hand in a team sheet - something at least that he's capable of) 2nd Half: 3 Switched to the way we should have started and we improved - drastically for 10 minutes. Although only because Arsenal were already in the showers. Things quickly returned to Arsenal dominence once Wenger got them back out again.


I thought Pog looked a lot sharper and seemed leaner and quicker. The Arsenal defenders were worried about him and I couldn't believe it when McDermott took him off.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Royal With Cheese » 18 Dec 2012 10:26

SCIAG Contrastingly, Kebe tracks back and does a reasonable impression of a full back. He's possibly the best winger we've ever had for that, Stephen Hunt got a lot of praise but he was one to press rather than contain.

That, of all the comments on HNA in the last 10 years, is the best I've ever seen.

I really, really hope this is a fishing trip as I'm well and truly hooked. Kebe can't defend for toffee.

:lol:

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by The Beardy Man » 18 Dec 2012 10:27

clauski
Vision
We have to deal with it on our terms with what qualities we possess. It can be done, Swansea and Norwich are showing that with (on paper) a group of players that mostly would have fallen into the journeyman category before they hit the Premiership.

Even with the limited resources available though, can we honestly say we've made the most of our transfer dealings or utilised the players we do have to the best of our ability?


No, we haven't. Our two "big money" signings in the summer were Gunter and Mariappa which sums that one up. But we put ourselves on the backfoot by continuing to be over prudent, even with a new owner. To take your examples above, Norwich and Swansea each spent £10m the summer they went up, we spent £5m. McDermott is talking again about clubs nearly going out of business. I'm sorry but what is this basis? Portsmouth is it, and only Portsmouth. And they were extremely mismanaged financially, not comparable with other teams who are investing but not necessarily beyond unrealistic means. The way we approach it is like saying no more retailers should open shops because Comet just failed.


I don't believe we have maximised what resources we have either, though at the time I felt the signings we made were pretty decent.

The point though is we could have spent 10 million more than we have and not really be significantly better off. For all their investment Saints may still go down (and as has been said, it seems they are better able to afford it). Which one or two players would have made such a massive difference to our play?

Giving your squad a chance to step up with a few quality additions can work. It has not in our case, partially that is bad fortune...and partially bad judgement on the part of the management team (tactically and squad evaluation wise). Once that becomes clear you can only suck it up and plan for next year....whether those plans should include your current management team unchanged is a different but related question....
Last edited by The Beardy Man on 18 Dec 2012 10:27, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Pepe the Horseman » 18 Dec 2012 10:27

trueroyal1871
Ian Royal Federici - 8 MOTM not much you can do with Arsenal breaking through the porous blue and white gauze infront of him. Some good saves - I wouldn't say many were great, Arsenal giving him more chance than they should maybe.
Cummings - 4 part of the defensive shambles
Mariappa - 3 see above
Gorkss - 4 one of his best games this season, I thought. Didn't notice many hugely glaring errors
Shorey - 5 sadly he's catching bad aids of the defence.
Leigertwood - 2 hopeless.
Tabb - 6 he gives the ball away not too often, tries hard, gets stuck in, runs. But he's got nothing to work with and he's not good enough really.
McAnuff - 4 perked up when he went through the middle. A little anyway. He knows we're down.
Kebe - 6.5 caused some danger - defensively weak, but hey, wouldn't have mattered if he'd played like Ashley Cole at his best
Pog - 6 bugger all to work with, was it me or did he look a shade quicker and lighter?
Hunt - 5 bless he tries but he's just not good enough

ALF - 6.5 scored his only real chance and registered a SO later. Had bugger all service obviously but was game
HRK - 7 looks a real player sometimes. Others looks predictable and mediocre. Today was a good day
McCleary - 6 well he's fast, but I'm not sure I really rate him.

McDermott 1st Half: 1 (that's for actually managing to hand in a team sheet - something at least that he's capable of) 2nd Half: 3 Switched to the way we should have started and we improved - drastically for 10 minutes. Although only because Arsenal were already in the showers. Things quickly returned to Arsenal dominence once Wenger got them back out again.


I thought Pog looked a lot sharper and seemed leaner and quicker. The Arsenal defenders were worried about him and I couldn't believe it when McDermott took him off.

First 20 minutes he looked good. Then he got sick of the hoofball shit and started playing a lot deeper as he went looking for the ball.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Vision » 18 Dec 2012 10:33

clauski
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We have to deal with it on our terms with what qualities we possess. It can be done, Swansea and Norwich are showing that with (on paper) a group of players that mostly would have fallen into the journeyman category before they hit the Premiership.

Even with the limited resources available though, can we honestly say we've made the most of our transfer dealings or utilised the players we do have to the best of our ability?


No, we haven't. Our two "big money" signings in the summer were Gunter and Mariappa which sums that one up. But we put ourselves on the backfoot by continuing to be over prudent, even with a new owner. To take your examples above, Norwich and Swansea each spent £10m the summer they went up, we spent £5m. McDermott is talking again about clubs nearly going out of business. I'm sorry but what is this basis? Portsmouth is it, and only Portsmouth. And they were extremely mismanaged financially, not comparable with other teams who are investing but not necessarily beyond unrealistic means. The way we approach it is like saying no more retailers should open shops because Comet just failed.


You really can't go solely on transfer fees these days though.

In terms of wage committments Pog and Guthrie are on more than anyone Swansea or Norwich bought in last summer. Swansea's season was going rapidly backwards until they got Gylffi in on loan in January. This summer they cashed in on two of their key players from last season (Allen & Sinclair) and have replaced them for a fraction of a cost and look a better side. They really haven't spent significantly more than us when you factor in wages, they've just bought better players with it. Also like Norwich, their "championship" players who helped get them up have stepped up whereas ours simply haven't.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and no doubt had McD known that almost to a man the Championship winning side wouldn't make the step up then I'm sure the transfer activity in the summer would have been different. However he made the judgement at the start of the season that the "togetherness" of that group would be to our advantage. It obviously hasn't and so it's proved to an error of judgement but personally speaking i don't think showing loyalty to players that acheived so much last season is necessarily a bad thing.

I said on an earlier thread that I suspect we looked at what Norwich did and how their squad as a whole (containing mainly non Premiership players) contributed last season to them staying up. The problem looking at us it that unlike them we dont really have anyone who you would say is at the peak age-wise. It's either "young, promising but not there yet" or "best years are behind them"
Last edited by Vision on 18 Dec 2012 10:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by windjammer » 18 Dec 2012 10:34

urz13 Pog's best performance in a reading shirt, didn't give the ball away once and was the only player to look like he was trying and still people criticise him :lol:


Twice in the 1st half, before Arsenal ran riot, Pog set up good chances, Cutting in from the right he squared the ball and MacDuff hit it wide when it was easier to score, Then cutting in from the left he squared the ball again, Hunt, who was in space, just waited for the ball instead of going towards the ball and attacking the centre. What happened? Arsenal defender reacted and blocked the centre while Hunt was still dreaming of the net bulging from his tap-in Pog must be really disillusioned with this shower and wishing he was at Fulham with Berbatov.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Vision » 18 Dec 2012 10:37

windjammer
urz13 Pog's best performance in a reading shirt, didn't give the ball away once and was the only player to look like he was trying and still people criticise him :lol:


Twice in the 1st half, before Arsenal ran riot, Pog set up good chances, Cutting in from the right he squared the ball and MacDuff hit it wide when it was easier to score, Then cutting in from the left he squared the ball again, Hunt, who was in space, just waited for the ball instead of going towards the ball and attacking the centre. What happened? Arsenal defender reacted and blocked the centre while Hunt was still dreaming of the net bulging from his tap-in Pog must be really disillusioned with this shower and wishing he was at Fulham with Berbatov.


The first one fair enough but he absolutely underhit the 2nd one to Hunt.

Even if I agree with your take on it, there really is no excuse for jacking it in after that, which is what Pog did.


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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by REMTARDROYAL » 18 Dec 2012 10:37

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and no doubt had McD known that almost to a man the Championship winning side wouldn't make the step up then I'm sure the transfer activity in the summer would have been different. However he made the judgement at the start of the season that the "togetherness" of that group would be to our advantage. It obviously hasn't and so it's proved to an error of judgement but personally speaking i don't think showing loyalty to players that acheived so much last season is necessarily a bad thing.


Also - what's he going to do about it now?

Nothing. He can't.

Too much 'I want it all BS'

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by trueroyal1871 » 18 Dec 2012 10:38

Pepe the Horseman First 20 minutes he looked good. Then he got sick of the hoofball shit and started playing a lot deeper as he went looking for the ball.


Yes very true and I wasn't surprised to see him so pissed off when he was subbed. I also saw him early in the second half going off on one in Russian after another atrocious hoof from midfield.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by sandman » 18 Dec 2012 10:45

Embarrassing, cringeworthy and utterly pathetic and that was just the Arsenal fans showing a basic lack of understanding of how the fixture list works by singing ''we'll never play you again''. However, Reading were all those things and much worse. Felt we might get something before the game then I saw Gorkss was playing, Legsofwood couldn't pick his nose let alone a pass and McAnuff was atrocious again (not that he'll ever be dropped). As many have said, if it wasn't for Feds it would've been double figures. 442 against Arsenal at home when you've conceded 7 to them this season already is football suicide.
Last edited by sandman on 18 Dec 2012 11:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by melonhead » 18 Dec 2012 10:45

Royal With Cheese
SCIAG Contrastingly, Kebe tracks back and does a reasonable impression of a full back. He's possibly the best winger we've ever had for that, Stephen Hunt got a lot of praise but he was one to press rather than contain.

That, of all the comments on HNA in the last 10 years, is the best I've ever seen.

I really, really hope this is a fishing trip as I'm well and truly hooked. Kebe can't defend for toffee.

:lol:



bollox


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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Royalwaster » 18 Dec 2012 10:46

trueroyal1871
Pepe the Horseman First 20 minutes he looked good. Then he got sick of the hoofball shit and started playing a lot deeper as he went looking for the ball.


Yes very true and I wasn't surprised to see him so pissed off when he was subbed. I also saw him early in the second half going off on one in Russian after another atrocious hoof from midfield.


Truth is up to the first goal, we played OK going forward and so the Pog got a bit of decent service - after that all he was getting were Legs forward punts to try and get hold of; don't blame him for looking a bit dispirited.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Pepe the Horseman » 18 Dec 2012 10:47

sandman Embarrassing, cringeworthy and utterly pathetic and that was just the Arsenal fans showing a basic lack of understanding of how the fixture list works by singing ''we'll never play you again''.

lol

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by melonhead » 18 Dec 2012 10:50

thought we did ok until the first goal. then our confidence died, a few heads went down, and some players started hiding. including pog, which just isnt acceptable, regardless of what you have to moan about.

looked much better with three in the middle, and this has to be the formation for city.





fed kept the score at just moderately embarrassing
shorey played well, tabb also, kebe tried hard to keep the ball and build attacks, HRK did ok too when he came on, and alf looked sharp again when on

theyre the only only positives

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Blue_White_Blood » 18 Dec 2012 11:02

from watching every game this season, just seems the players wont pressure the other team. simple football, pass to feet and move!!! CLOSE THEM DOWN!!

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by West Stand Man » 18 Dec 2012 11:25

sandman Embarrassing, cringeworthy and utterly pathetic and that was just the Arsenal fans showing a basic lack of understanding of how the fixture list works by singing ''we'll never play you again''. However Reading were all those things and much worse. Felt we might get something before the game then I saw Gorkss was playing, Legsofwood couldn't pick his nose let alone a pass and McAnuff was atrocious again (not that he'll ever be dropped). As many have said, if it wasn't for Feds it would've been double figures. 442 against Arsenal at home when you've conceded 7 to them this season already is football suicide.


It was embarrassing, I agree. And the Arsenal fans were wrong about not playing us again (as are the vast majority of fans because the way it works there is a strong likelihood of encountering most teams again when one or other of you is promoted/ relegated.

Gorkss is a busted flush and it surprises me that he is still picked. Age appears to have caught up with him a bit early; he is always at full stretch these days. Leigertwood still has it but is not on form. He is not helped by having no real strength in midfield to support him. Macanuff is similarly exposed; he played ok yesterday but not up to the level needed to sustain a PL place. Again, he was not helped by the lack of suitable support around him. Cummings was left alone too often. Shorey is still a class act. Federici played a blinder and kept us reasonably respectable (ie in single figures).

It was particularly dismaying to see us being so nice to them. It wasn't until ALF and HRK came on that we exercised any muscle around the Arsenal defence. They needed roughing up a little - but it just didn't happen. Nothing totally outside the spirit of the game, just the odd reminder that we are there to compete.

It could be a long second half of the season now. Reality says that we effectively down already. So, if you were the person bank rolling the team, would you spend now to re-inforce failure or wait to rebuild for the Championship next year? I fear that the obvious answer is 'no money in January because it will just be sunk'.

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by Dan - B15 Royal » 18 Dec 2012 11:29

handbags_harris By the way, best Bill Oddie the East Stand has produced after goal 2 as far as I'm concerned.


i second this comment, was it heard on the television anyone?

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Re: Arsenal: Back from the procession

by runrunrunrungilksey » 18 Dec 2012 11:33

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clauski
The Beardy Man We could have gambled on future income by spending 20-30 million like Saints, but remind me where they are in the table again?


The TSI investment wasn't sold to us a new owner that has no money to spend, it was sold to us that they were a new owner taking us to the next level, one that cannot be reached without investment in premiership quality players, so what was the point of the sale?

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