BFTG - Plymouth Home

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Sutekh
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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Sutekh » 10 Aug 2016 09:05

Top Flight Cooper is an excellent player but I don't think he fits Stam's play out from the back approach. He's too uncomfortable on the ball.

He can play at Championship level, but it might need to be with a different team and different style.

Cooper is an old fashioned, traditional centre back.


Agree with this, think it will be up to him to prove he can adjust his game to Stam's satisfaction. If he can't then he'll be out on loan/sold in January/next summer and we'll be looking for another option.

George_ Just don't get the people that are moaning about the way we are playing. This is a new team with a new way of playing and will take time, but having watched last season and the absolute rubbish we we were playing in that diamond i will happily watch us keep 80% possession, win the game and not concede again. They will only get better and better after playing together more and getting used to this style of play.


They moan 'cos we aren't going forward. However, whereas last season (and before under Adkins and Clarke) when we tried to play like that we didn't look comfortable and always looked like an accident waiting to happen, this season we actually look like we want to ball and actually try to play it out intelligently when an option appears (rather than just getting fed up and lamping it up top to no one in particular).

One hopes they will eventually see the difference and the sense of impending doom that accompanied any form of backward/crab passing under Adkins, Clarke and McDermott will soon leave them and they can appreciate it more.

True test of it though will come when we've got teams pressing us at tempo and not giving us an inch of space or second of time to think. In the top leagues usually the technical ability and speed of thought of better players will shine through in those cases. Whether we have any of that in sufficient quantity remains to be seen.

Overall though, last night was frustrating that we can't totally kill off opposition.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Pepe the Horseman » 10 Aug 2016 09:14

sandman Yeah what idiots for actually wanting to see us go for the jugular and try and score a few more goals.

Who wants to see an exciting young French player, who apparently had the opposition full back all at sea, run with the ball?

There was me thinking football was about scoring goals but apparently it's all about boosting you possession statistics by passing it along your back four.

:| When there's no options on it's clearly better to pass backwards or sideways and keep the ball, than pump it up to no one for the sake of going forwards.

And Meite was shot after a couple of really good runs, give the kid a fcuking chance to catch his breath instead of screaming at him.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Maneki Neko » 10 Aug 2016 09:21

also - the whole point is that when the opposition have eleven men behind the ball and space is limited, there are only risky pass options, bring the ball back, knock it around, frustrate them, drag them out of their half, move them round a bit, create the space and then have an attack.

this forward pass at every given opportunity silly English attitude is pretty moronic. its like shit midweek 5 aside tactics

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Sutekh » 10 Aug 2016 09:30

Maneki Neko also - the whole point is that when the opposition have eleven men behind the ball and space is limited, there are only risky pass options, bring the ball back, knock it around, frustrate them, drag them out of their half, move them round a bit, create the space and then have an attack.

this forward pass at every given opportunity silly English attitude is pretty moronic. its like shit midweek 5 aside tactics


Agreed. The former is what top class sides do. The latter is what the less able do because the talent, technical ability and confidence isn't there sufficiently

While the latter does have moments when it wins out, nine times out of ten it will fail.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Brum Royal » 10 Aug 2016 09:39

Sutekh Overall though, last night was frustrating that we can't totally kill off opposition.


"Can't" isn't perhaps the right word for the second half. Chose not to and conserve energy seemed to be the modus operandii whilst the score was still 2-0.


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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by sandman » 10 Aug 2016 09:40

Not about a "forward pass at every opportunity", it's about over passing. Patience is fine, I've said on many occassions that I much prefer La Liga to the Premier League. But when you get into the oppositions half and you have an overload on the wing, then try and use it rather than passing inside and eventually forcing yourselves to have to go back to your keeper rather than the opposition forcing you to back.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Forbury Lion » 10 Aug 2016 09:43

Roy Beerens has won a place in my heart as my favourite Reading player, last night when he was down the right flank I saw flashes of Kebe Little and Doyle with a dash of Parky thrown in for good measure.

We're a different side to last year and all signs are good, however it's early days and last season I probably thought the same.

I did notice a few times on the left wing the winger (can't remember his name) would get past people and have to cross it only nobody had made the run. An age old problem for Reading much like when Gilkes would bomb down the left wing at 100 mph and cross it only to find the team mates he left trailing in his wake running towards the box at 5 mph were nowhere near enough to get on the end of it. This is where playing it slow is best and passing it back rather than crossing it into an empty/heavily defended box is best.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Hendo » 10 Aug 2016 09:46

Decided against going last night, worked late and just didn't fancy it, but all sounds positive.

I know Plymouth are no world beaters but you can only beat whats put in front of you and it sounds like the new boys had good games again.

Always nice to see a new forward player (Beerens) get off the mark early in the season.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by chippc » 10 Aug 2016 09:57

Player Ratings

Cooper on the ball 4

Cooper heading the ball 8


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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by John Madejski's Wallet » 10 Aug 2016 10:51

Maneki Neko also - the whole point is that when the opposition have eleven men behind the ball and space is limited, there are only risky pass options, bring the ball back, knock it around, frustrate them, drag them out of their half, move them round a bit, create the space and then have an attack.

this forward pass at every given opportunity silly English attitude is pretty moronic. its like shit midweek 5 aside tactics

We understand all this.

But I know I will find it hard to be ecstatic with a win, when the last 30 min of football have sent me to sleep.

First half the new, comfortable style was nice to see. Everyone happy on the ball and the passing around at the back seemed to have a patient purpose, unlike Adkins and Clarke where it seemed to be done due to lack of options or knowing what to do. I like it.

Last 30min we seemed to revert to old habits, passing back aimlessly when a forward pass was actually on. The difference between the two halves felt like a lack of purpose. I personally hate passing around at the back if it seems to serve no purpose

And I like English football. I'd enjoy Coppell's champ-winning style over a Barcelona style bore-fest any day.

Early days, but the first half (on top of 90 min at Preston) has really encouraged me that Stam will put together a nice blend of styles. Fingers crossed

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Maneki Neko » 10 Aug 2016 11:05

Sutekh
Maneki Neko also - the whole point is that when the opposition have eleven men behind the ball and space is limited, there are only risky pass options, bring the ball back, knock it around, frustrate them, drag them out of their half, move them round a bit, create the space and then have an attack.

this forward pass at every given opportunity silly English attitude is pretty moronic. its like shit midweek 5 aside tactics


Agreed. The former is what top class sides do. The latter is what the less able do because the talent, technical ability and confidence isn't there sufficiently

While the latter does have moments when it wins out, nine times out of ten it will fail.


I think 9 out of 10 is a bit harsh- its more like 7/10
and there are times where playing quick ball forwards, on the floor, in the air, ,however , is absolutely the right thing to do.
but demanding it 100% of the time is daft, and otherwise, generally agreed

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Top Flight » 10 Aug 2016 11:06

I'm looking forward to Jaap taking our 100% possession football away from home. If we dominate Wolves at Molineux in the same way that Preston and Plymouth were dominated you can see the natives getting extremely restless and thoroughly p*ssed off.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by andrew1957 » 10 Aug 2016 11:08

Pepe the Horseman Cooper saw a lot of the ball in the first half, I don't know whether this was intentional to try and get him more comfortable on the ball. It seemed to be working for the first 10/15, but then a couple of misplaced passes rocked his confidence.

In contrast, Watson was great. So composed. Never panicked, even when under a pressure in his own half. Wouldn't have guessed which of the fullbacks had 70+ caps for his country. Although saying that, Gunter didn't have a bad game, and actually took his man on a couple of times. Nearly scored n all.

JVDB looked solid, and his passing is very good. Almost a little bit too casual at times though. Can see us giving away a few silly goals this season, as we pass our way out of the defence.

Swift and Evans look excellent. Swift just doesn't lose the ball.

Beerens flashes of brilliance. Same goes for Meite when he came on.

Kermorgant held it up well, but didn't get a sniff of goal.

Jaakola had nothing to do, but his distribution was good. Looks like a decent ball player.

All in all a professional, solid display, and we never looked in danger. Didn't really get out of second gear. Will be interesting to see what happens when we go a goal down, whether we'll continue with the patient build up play. Hope our fans buy into it as well and have a bit of patience. Already a couple of idiots around shouting for us to go forward when we were just playing keep ball, and for Meite to RUN as soon as he got anywhere near the ball.

Wolves will be a good test on Saturday, but they're a big WIP, so should be very winnable.


Pretty much spot on report as far as I am concerned. I thought Watson and Swift were the stand out players. I have watched Watson several times at youth level and always thought he would be good but now it looks like he will be "very" good. Great to see such composure from a 19 year old.

As for Cooper he saw a huge amount of the ball in the first half and I actually counted his poor passes and I made it 4 out of about 30 and so I think some on here are being very harsh. Most of the time he found a Reading shirt and don't forget in January-March he was getting rave reviews and Bournemouth were supposedly going to bid 5M for him. I still think he is a good player and he is still very young and can develop more.

Love the new style of play. It seems to be possession with a point - always looking for a way through rather than Rodgers possession for the sake of possession football.

Although I was furious that Brian was sacked - the past is the past and I have to say that Stam has made a very impressive start to his RFC career.


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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Maneki Neko » 10 Aug 2016 11:10

John Madejski's Wallet
Maneki Neko also - the whole point is that when the opposition have eleven men behind the ball and space is limited, there are only risky pass options, bring the ball back, knock it around, frustrate them, drag them out of their half, move them round a bit, create the space and then have an attack.

this forward pass at every given opportunity silly English attitude is pretty moronic. its like shit midweek 5 aside tactics

We understand all this.

But I know I will find it hard to be ecstatic with a win, when the last 30 min of football have sent me to sleep.

First half the new, comfortable style was nice to see. Everyone happy on the ball and the passing around at the back seemed to have a patient purpose, unlike Adkins and Clarke where it seemed to be done due to lack of options or knowing what to do. I like it.

Last 30min we seemed to revert to old habits, passing back aimlessly when a forward pass was actually on. The difference between the two halves felt like a lack of purpose. I personally hate passing around at the back if it seems to serve no purpose

And I like English football. I'd enjoy Coppell's champ-winning style over a Barcelona style bore-fest any day.

Early days, but the first half (on top of 90 min at Preston) has really encouraged me that Stam will put together a nice blend of styles. Fingers crossed


felt it was more about fitness, a reduction in urgency, as well as preston pressing us much harder, which forced us into it a bit.
first half we knocked it around the back too. a lot. but it was always with a mind to create space and then push the ball through the thirds quickly. UNLIKE the shit sideways stuff with no purpose or thought under adkins, that always ended up in panic and a hoofed ball upfield anyway.

these last two games, when there was opportunity we loaded up the wings, got players and the ball forward quickly and played quick incisive stuff.just not every single time, which is what people around me were certainly moaning about.even in the 1st half..s.

still reserving judgement anyway- preston and Plymouth were both dogshit-ill wait till weve played a couple of away games, and seen how we get on vs Newcastle and brighton before I let my optimism get too wild

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by Hoop Blah » 10 Aug 2016 11:41

I didn't go last night, so I'm talking in general here, but I don't get the negativity about Cooper's ability on the ball.

Obviously he's no Wdowczyk but previously he's been pretty comfortable on the ball and used it pretty reliably. He didn't used to be too adventurous with it but when he first came into the side he didn't give it away too much so I wouldn't write off his chances of being able to fit in with a more measured approach if he needs to.

I'm more worried about his defending and decision making causing him issues than his ball playing.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by kwik-silva » 10 Aug 2016 11:48

My only worry is that everybody's used the 'double dutch' headline too early and they're going to have nothing in reserve

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by ladida_gunner_graham » 10 Aug 2016 12:04

Pepe the Horseman When there's no options on it's clearly better to pass backwards or sideways and keep the ball

I think this highlights the area where we haven't quite got it right yet. We are clearly looking to play the ball out from the back (no issue there), but the formation of the team when we have the ball at the back does not make it easy for the defence. Too often we have 4, sometimes 5 players in a line across the opposition's back four line, but with almost no-one looking to pick the ball up short and play through midfield. Defenders then have 3 options, (i) play it to each other (boring?), (ii) play it to the only available midfielder who is marked so just pops the ball back to them (also boring?) or (iii) try a longer risky pass to closely marked forwards (berated for losing possession). Midfield support for this style of play seemed to be lacking both on Saturday and last night. When we do have options in midfield I thought we looked pretty good, and so many of our new players look to have out-of-your-seat potential. Sterner tests to come, no doubt.

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by ladida_gunner_graham » 10 Aug 2016 12:06

Hoop Blah I didn't go last night, so I'm talking in general here, but I don't get the negativity about Cooper's ability on the ball.

Obviously he's no Wdowczyk but previously he's been pretty comfortable on the ball and used it pretty reliably. He didn't used to be too adventurous with it but when he first came into the side he didn't give it away too much so I wouldn't write off his chances of being able to fit in with a more measured approach if he needs to.

I'm more worried about his defending and decision making causing him issues than his ball playing.

If you'd have been there last night, you'd have been disappointed with large parts of his performance. Occasionally he showed he is capable of a good long pass, but WAY too often it was very poor indeed...

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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by TBM » 10 Aug 2016 12:09


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Re: BFTG - Plymouth Home

by LWJ » 10 Aug 2016 12:36

andrew1957
As for Cooper he saw a huge amount of the ball in the first half and I actually counted his poor passes and I made it 4 out of about 30

you obviously didn't count, why make that up?

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