Clement

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Clement in or out

Poll ended at 02 Oct 2018 15:29
Out
35
25%
In
68
49%
Out but in a funny accent
3
2%
Oxf*rd off Maff
17
12%
Ian Royal
16
12%
 
Total votes: 139
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Stranded
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Re: Clement

by Stranded » 04 Sep 2018 11:09

Jagermesiter1871 Judging by our Iranians Instagram page he's still in Tehran so not sure when we'll first see him.


On International duty, so after that - though probably not Preston.

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Re: Clement

by andrew1957 » 04 Sep 2018 11:33

I have voted "in".

As others have said the problems at RFC seem far deeper than Clement. We have been on a downward spiral for some years. In truth apart from those intimately involved in the club I doubt that any of us have an real inkling as to what has gone wrong.

But I don't see how the new owners can be blamed. They are no doubt busy business people and have many calls on their time and so they have trusted Gourlay to run the club. They have invested a lot of money and supported player purchases and new contracts. The fault is not with them. Gourlay and Teverden on the other hand appear to have made a huge mess of the whole situation by buying the wrong players and extending the wrong contracts. One can only but think that the Chinese will run out of patience with them soon - but the question is how with their limited knowledge of Championship football do they identify someone with the necessary leadership skills to take the club forwards.

As for Paul C I think he has had an impossible job and so I am not sure we can blame him too much. He inherited a demotivated squad used to losing. It sounds as though many of our purchases have been made by Gourlay and not by the manager over the last couple of seasons and so it looks like the manager has little influence over player purchases and so forth. Therefore, as the manager (whether Clement or ano) has little influence one wonders how seriously many of the older players (who in many cases are on long contracts) will take what Clement says as they will know that in all likelihood they will be here at the club longer than the manager.

Sadly I now think that the only long term hope for RFC to rebuild is for the Chinese owners to sack the current club hierarchy and hopefully identify someone who can take the club forward again and for us to be relegated to League 1 where we can offload some of the expensive dross and rebuild the club from the bottom up. We might get lucky and do this in one season or more likely it will take a few years.

I have no idea whether Clement is the right manager for this rebuilding process or not. Knowing how short term football is if we don't start winning soon Clement will probably be gone before the end of October, but in that event I am not convinced that whoever Gourlay appoints will be able to make any difference.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 12:17

Weird to think that the main issue we had in our PO season was lack of squad depth. Gravenberch was on the bench for the PO semi FFS, seems absurd now with our massive squad.

There has been a very clear failing in what I think started off as the correct intention of tying some of our better players to longer contracts, and adding squad depth. Its basically run out of control, hence the current situation

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Re: Clement

by Whore Jackie » 04 Sep 2018 12:55

Snowflake Royal This is such revisionist nonsense.

Gunter's only played one game this season and half our fans have always thought he was shit.
Kelly's been being slated since the start of last season.
Barrow is easily explained by fitness and injury, plus he always blew hit and cold.
Swift has been ruined by injury and only had half a good season two years ago
McShane was being called out as a liability since he got sent off in the POs
How anyone can suggest Richards has got worse is baffling, he's a kid who has played a dozen games and always looked a touch out of his depth.
Clement hasn't even played yet and looking ok in a shit pre-season means nothing. Looked out of his depth last year.
The idea that Clement has ruined Meyler in a couple of months is ludicrous.
Mannone's just as bang average as he's always been
Evans barely played last year and he was virtually the only midfielder anyone wanted when we needed to shift players.

Clement has been handed an absolutely shit job, with players whose attitudes and abilities stink, that he can do very little with. He's picked up the job at the point we'd gone 18/19 games with only 1 win. He's not doing everything right, but how many managers do we need to try before some of you realise its not just the manager's fault.

Adkins got shafted by not being McDermott and having no money
Clarke was a twat who shafted himself
McDermott was shafted
Stam oxf*rd things up worse than they've been in decades.

Switching again is unlikely to help. Every time we have a manager who isn't winning people say its his fault, sack him the new guy can't do worse. Well, the new guy keeps proving those people wrong.


Little harsh on Richards and Clement IMO. Richards looked superb when he first came into the team. Great away at Villa and Stevenage. He was bold, adventurous and looked a decent left-back. Still young and has hardly played at all. He looks to have been told to curb his attacking tendacies and much like Shorey with England, looks a lesser player than in those initial appearances.

Thought Clement actually looked much better, when Clement played him towards the end of last season. His stamina for a young player was slightly alarming, but by many reports was excellent again in pre-season. Slightly bemused that he hasn't featured in the League for us, given how poor any of the midfield combinations have been.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 04 Sep 2018 13:14

Whore Jackie
Snowflake Royal This is such revisionist nonsense.

Gunter's only played one game this season and half our fans have always thought he was shit.
Kelly's been being slated since the start of last season.
Barrow is easily explained by fitness and injury, plus he always blew hit and cold.
Swift has been ruined by injury and only had half a good season two years ago
McShane was being called out as a liability since he got sent off in the POs
How anyone can suggest Richards has got worse is baffling, he's a kid who has played a dozen games and always looked a touch out of his depth.
Clement hasn't even played yet and looking ok in a shit pre-season means nothing. Looked out of his depth last year.
The idea that Clement has ruined Meyler in a couple of months is ludicrous.
Mannone's just as bang average as he's always been
Evans barely played last year and he was virtually the only midfielder anyone wanted when we needed to shift players.

Clement has been handed an absolutely shit job, with players whose attitudes and abilities stink, that he can do very little with. He's picked up the job at the point we'd gone 18/19 games with only 1 win. He's not doing everything right, but how many managers do we need to try before some of you realise its not just the manager's fault.

Adkins got shafted by not being McDermott and having no money
Clarke was a twat who shafted himself
McDermott was shafted
Stam oxf*rd things up worse than they've been in decades.

Switching again is unlikely to help. Every time we have a manager who isn't winning people say its his fault, sack him the new guy can't do worse. Well, the new guy keeps proving those people wrong.


Little harsh on Richards and Clement IMO. Richards looked superb when he first came into the team. Great away at Villa and Stevenage. He was bold, adventurous and looked a decent left-back. Still young and has hardly played at all. He looks to have been told to curb his attacking tendacies and much like Shorey with England, looks a lesser player than in those initial appearances.

Thought Clement actually looked much better, when Clement played him towards the end of last season. His stamina for a young player was slightly alarming, but by many reports was excellent again in pre-season. Slightly bemused that he hasn't featured in the League for us, given how poor any of the midfield combinations have been.


Where in midfield was Clement playing Clement? (as it were)


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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 04 Sep 2018 13:28

andrew1957 As for Paul C I think he has had an impossible job and so I am not sure we can blame him too much. He inherited a demotivated squad used to losing. It sounds as though many of our purchases have been made by Gourlay and not by the manager over the last couple of seasons and so it looks like the manager has little influence over player purchases and so forth. Therefore, as the manager (whether Clement or ano) has little influence one wonders how seriously many of the older players (who in many cases are on long contracts) will take what Clement says as they will know that in all likelihood they will be here at the club longer than the manager.

Andrew, well said, as usual.
I'd say PC has had a tough job, rather than an impossible one, but let's go on the 'impossible job' for a moment. In which case, why did he take it? Nobody forced him. He must have taken a look and saw a lot that he liked here, both on and off the field? I imagine he may also have sought advice on it, and was given a green light by those he trusted and respected in the industry?
Things may not be 'right' higher up, but not sure much has actually 'changed' in that regard during his tenure? Also, keep hearing he isn't backed (and he's starting to allude to that himself), and yet Gourlay is his old buddy? So who is not backing him, Tevreden?
Anyway, good post. Seems we have more questions than answers at this point...

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Re: Clement

by Whore Jackie » 04 Sep 2018 13:30

leon
Whore Jackie
Snowflake Royal This is such revisionist nonsense.

Gunter's only played one game this season and half our fans have always thought he was shit.
Kelly's been being slated since the start of last season.
Barrow is easily explained by fitness and injury, plus he always blew hit and cold.
Swift has been ruined by injury and only had half a good season two years ago
McShane was being called out as a liability since he got sent off in the POs
How anyone can suggest Richards has got worse is baffling, he's a kid who has played a dozen games and always looked a touch out of his depth.
Clement hasn't even played yet and looking ok in a shit pre-season means nothing. Looked out of his depth last year.
The idea that Clement has ruined Meyler in a couple of months is ludicrous.
Mannone's just as bang average as he's always been
Evans barely played last year and he was virtually the only midfielder anyone wanted when we needed to shift players.

Clement has been handed an absolutely shit job, with players whose attitudes and abilities stink, that he can do very little with. He's picked up the job at the point we'd gone 18/19 games with only 1 win. He's not doing everything right, but how many managers do we need to try before some of you realise its not just the manager's fault.

Adkins got shafted by not being McDermott and having no money
Clarke was a twat who shafted himself
McDermott was shafted
Stam oxf*rd things up worse than they've been in decades.

Switching again is unlikely to help. Every time we have a manager who isn't winning people say its his fault, sack him the new guy can't do worse. Well, the new guy keeps proving those people wrong.


Little harsh on Richards and Clement IMO. Richards looked superb when he first came into the team. Great away at Villa and Stevenage. He was bold, adventurous and looked a decent left-back. Still young and has hardly played at all. He looks to have been told to curb his attacking tendacies and much like Shorey with England, looks a lesser player than in those initial appearances.

Thought Clement actually looked much better, when Clement played him towards the end of last season. His stamina for a young player was slightly alarming, but by many reports was excellent again in pre-season. Slightly bemused that he hasn't featured in the League for us, given how poor any of the midfield combinations have been.


Where in midfield was Clement playing Clement? (as it were)


Preston at home, Clement came on at half-time and played in a three-man midfield with Kelly and Swift. From memory he played the most centrally of those three, but it was a pretty dynamic, fluid role, and he massively helped keep it at 1-0. I was quite shocked at how fatigued he got, but I'm still baffled why he hasn't featured this season, when Derby apart, our midfield really has been the weakest part of the team.

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Re: Clement

by royalsroyalsroyals92 » 04 Sep 2018 14:16

It's going to be a really interesting few weeks at the club.

I'm on the fence about Clement still - but I do think he's been given a tough job.

It clearly lies with backroom staff and the likes of Gourlay and Tevreden - however if things keep going as they are and Clement stays, it's almost undoubtedly their admission that it's not Clement's fault and the buck lies with them, and therefore they would go - which is very unlikely.

As I don't think the pair of them have a clue and will most likely want to cover their own backsides, I imagine we'll see them get rid of Clement and whoever follows and keep running through that cycle where they strike lucky and find a manager who can turn the club around regardless of those clowns at the helm. Big shame, but I don't trust in those two to come out and admit that this is their oxf*rd up.

Have a worry that this won't sort itself out or get resolved until we are at the very least deep in League One.

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Re: Clement

by bagman » 04 Sep 2018 16:15

If you look at Clement's record at Swansea and Reading from start of 2017 season, he has played 32 games ,won 4, drawn 6, lost 22. At that rate we will get 26 points this season.
I know you can't compare the two scenarios , but winners win and losers dont, and I'm afraid that linked with the doom merchant that is Nigel Gibbs , I can't see him changing our current steep spiral ( even recognising it was started under Stam )


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Re: Clement

by Victor Meldrew » 04 Sep 2018 16:38

Having read the posts on here a number of people have said that Clement has been dealt a poor hand and it made me think, has he?
He has been allowed to bring in :-
Walker
Sims
Yiadom
Meyler
O'Shea
McNulty
Baldock
On top of those our second-best player has not been sold.

I presume that these players were his choices but none have yet made a great impression-you would hope that at least one new signing would have an immediately positive impact.
Money HAS been spent but once again how wisely?

3 things strike me as poor management decisions.
1.The signing of O'Shea
2.Bringing Gunter straight in last Saturday and moving the one player who has made a bit of an impression to an alien position
3.Not making any tactical plans to deal with Barry Bannen, which is IMHO the worst of the 3.
I was reading the Football League Paper last week in which there was an article praising Bannen for running both of Wednesday's previous games. So what happened on Saturday?
He was allowed to do what he liked for 90 minutes and ran the game and....they won.
It is inexcusable with all the stats and videos to hand that nothing was done to cut their supply line especially as we had 2 defensive-minded midfielders on the pitch.

I know some managers take the view "Let the opposition worry about us" but when you are down the bottom and not winning games surely you think about curbing the well-known supply line of the opposition?

Who knows, our signings may all come good (as in the dreamland of snowball) but that needs to happen sooner rather than later as we do, even at this early stage, have that relegation look about us and, unlike some on here, I really don't want to spend my hard-earned watching 3rd division football

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 16:48

think as I mentioned earlier, imo its not been a case of who he has been allowed to brought in that is causing the issue, more who they couldn't ship out.

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the performances so far, other than the generally sh!t mentality about the place. He inherited a losing culture and hasn't been able to turn it round. Part of that imo is being stuck with the likes of Aluko and McShane, and the difficulty in banishing them from the first team (if that is actually what he wants to do)

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Re: Clement

by Victor Meldrew » 04 Sep 2018 16:55

Hound think as I mentioned earlier, imo its not been a case of who he has been allowed to brought in that is causing the issue, more who they couldn't ship out.

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the performances so far, other than the generally sh!t mentality about the place. He inherited a losing culture and hasn't been able to turn it round. Part of that imo is being stuck with the likes of Aluko and McShane, and the difficulty in banishing them from the first team (if that is actually what he wants to do)


You say "stuck with....... Aluko and McShane".
He picks the team and by keeping McShane in the side as he did and playing Aluko again makes his judgement open to question regardless of how many players are on the books.
It strikes me that he is quick to drop younger players in Kelly, Richards and Ilori but not so quick when it comes to the older pros.

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Re: Clement

by Coppells Lost Coat » 04 Sep 2018 17:02

Victor Meldrew
Hound think as I mentioned earlier, imo its not been a case of who he has been allowed to brought in that is causing the issue, more who they couldn't ship out.

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the performances so far, other than the generally sh!t mentality about the place. He inherited a losing culture and hasn't been able to turn it round. Part of that imo is being stuck with the likes of Aluko and McShane, and the difficulty in banishing them from the first team (if that is actually what he wants to do)


You say "stuck with....... Aluko and McShane".
He picks the team and by keeping McShane in the side as he did and playing Aluko again makes his judgement open to question regardless of how many players are on the books.
It strikes me that he is quick to drop younger players in Kelly, Richards and Ilori but not so quick when it comes to the older pros.


I do wonder what Aluko does in training. He must absolutely nail it in front of the coaching staff. Come match time, under the bright lights he plays like he accidentally pours concrete in his books instead of warming up.


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Re: Clement

by John Smith » 04 Sep 2018 17:13

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Hound think as I mentioned earlier, imo its not been a case of who he has been allowed to brought in that is causing the issue, more who they couldn't ship out.

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the performances so far, other than the generally sh!t mentality about the place. He inherited a losing culture and hasn't been able to turn it round. Part of that imo is being stuck with the likes of Aluko and McShane, and the difficulty in banishing them from the first team (if that is actually what he wants to do)


You say "stuck with....... Aluko and McShane".
He picks the team and by keeping McShane in the side as he did and playing Aluko again makes his judgement open to question regardless of how many players are on the books.
It strikes me that he is quick to drop younger players in Kelly, Richards and Ilori but not so quick when it comes to the older pros.


I do wonder what Aluko does in training. He must absolutely nail it in front of the coaching staff. Come match time, under the bright lights he plays like he accidentally pours concrete in his books instead of warming up.

He probably has to play Aluko. It's not like someone with the knowledge and experience of Paul Clement is not seeing what we're seeing. There's probably additional politics. You can't exactly leave your record signing to rot in the reserves.

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 04 Sep 2018 17:21

John Smith He probably has to play Aluko. It's not like someone with the knowledge and experience of Paul Clement is not seeing what we're seeing. There's probably additional politics. You can't exactly leave your record signing to rot in the reserves.

I wouldn't see much difficulty in him being on the bench and coming on for cameos. McShane would be ok on the bench. O'Shea didn't even make the bench on Sat. If he isn't even allowed to pick his own team (which would be news to me), in our dire predicament, he may as well quit now.

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Re: Clement

by Sutekh » 04 Sep 2018 17:38

Denver Royal
John Smith He probably has to play Aluko. It's not like someone with the knowledge and experience of Paul Clement is not seeing what we're seeing. There's probably additional politics. You can't exactly leave your record signing to rot in the reserves.

I wouldn't see much difficulty in him being on the bench and coming on for cameos. McShane would be ok on the bench. O'Shea didn't even make the bench on Sat. If he isn't even allowed to pick his own team (which would be news to me), in our dire predicament, he may as well quit now.


Can't see PC not being allowed to pick the team he wants, agree that that really would be the end of the club and PC might as well walk away now.

Aluko is a player that I'd never have bought in the first place. If I was managing a team with him in it though, he'd be a luxury player, the one that comes on for the last 30 minutes with a simple instruction to run at already knackered defenders when chasing a game.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 17:55

I’m sure there’s a bit of club politics, but I do reckon Aluko and McShane will be on their way out

It’s more there probably is some pressure to play the record signing along with the club captain

It’s probably getting to the point now where he can say ‘just look how sh1t he is’ and have less pressure to play them

I wouldn’t have Aluko anywhere near the squad at all. An awful player who is inferior to pretty much everyone else in the squad

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Sep 2018 19:14

John Smith
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You say "stuck with....... Aluko and McShane".
He picks the team and by keeping McShane in the side as he did and playing Aluko again makes his judgement open to question regardless of how many players are on the books.
It strikes me that he is quick to drop younger players in Kelly, Richards and Ilori but not so quick when it comes to the older pros.


I do wonder what Aluko does in training. He must absolutely nail it in front of the coaching staff. Come match time, under the bright lights he plays like he accidentally pours concrete in his books instead of warming up.

He probably has to play Aluko. It's not like someone with the knowledge and experience of Paul Clement is not seeing what we're seeing. There's probably additional politics. You can't exactly leave your record signing to rot in the reserves.


I suspect that he gave Aluko the summer and the start of the season to show what he could do. Aluko, by many accounts, looked brighter in pre-season and had a relatively decent game against Derby before getting injured iirc. He's since gone back to absolute doodoo, but has only actually had three games in a row in the team. I reckon if he isn't dropped for the next game, he's got a maximum of one or two more starts to prove himself fit and able after the International break.

If Clement continues to play him ahead of Sims, Meite, Popa and even Yiadom at RW and Gunter RB after that, then he deserves any slating he gets without a significant upturn in form from Ennie's shit sibling.

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Re: Clement

by Mid Sussex Royal » 04 Sep 2018 19:19

There's a lot being about massive long term contracts on this thread; apart from Moore (recently) and probably Aluko who exactly?

Swift and I believe Kelly were offered extended deals a year ago which were entirely justified based on their performances during the play off season.

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Re: Clement

by muirinho » 04 Sep 2018 19:40

Mid Sussex Royal There's a lot being about massive long term contracts on this thread; apart from Moore (recently) and probably Aluko who exactly?

Swift and I believe Kelly were offered extended deals a year ago which were entirely justified based on their performances during the play off season.


Yiadom was given a 4 year contract - bet nobody is complaining about that one.

McCleary got a 3 and a half year contract in January 2017 - but half a season of that was overlapping the contract he already had. So really it was a 3 year contract.

Can't think of anybody else tbh

Edit: Mo Barrow also has a 4 year contract.

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