Next Season's Squad.

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Snowball
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowball » 10 May 2019 21:36

Quote

Players too good /would be silly to move on
Chris Gunter - experienced and dependable back up - should not sell
Garath McCleary - experienced and dependable back up - should not sell

These would be at the top of my sell list, not because I don't like them but they are on very good wages and neither are "for the future"

URZZZZ
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by URZZZZ » 10 May 2019 21:47

McCleary should be no where near our starting XI this season. Possibly as a backup, but that could be a waste of wages. Let’s be honest, he’s been stealing a living these last two years, bar a couple of good displays in a row earlier this season. Should have gone the second he bottled in the penalty shoot out.

The fact he hasn’t scored for over two years as a so called “winger” says it all

Cape Town Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Cape Town Royal » 10 May 2019 21:48

The Cube
Cape Town Royal
SCIAG Started off by saying that Carrick and older Scholes would have had better careers if the English weren't so obsessed with blood-and-thunder tackling, then this:

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

That was back when Spanish players were cool, but now English players are cool so who cares.


Maybe mr Alonso never got to see Spanish defenders such as Gentile when he was growing up. Spanish defenders in the late 70's and 80's were some of the most cynical I ever saw.

Was that during the period when they merged with Italy?


Lol - cap doffed...

But they did have some pretty cynical defenders!

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Oilroyal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Oilroyal » 11 May 2019 07:35

Snowball Quote

Players too good /would be silly to move on
Chris Gunter - experienced and dependable back up - should not sell
Garath McCleary - experienced and dependable back up - should not sell

These would be at the top of my sell list, not because I don't like them but they are on very good wages and neither are "for the future"


Interesting how different we all see things.

Whether Gunts and Gmac stay or not, I marked them both as “experienced and dependable back-ups”. And personally, I think they do have role to play in the future of this club. Cannot understand why any fan would object to having these two involved in helping the youngsters come through as both have been loyal, and both are model professionals. Both could have a very important role in shaping the future of this club.

Hound
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 11 May 2019 07:41

Basically agree with that. Other thing is they are in the last year of their contracts - all goes tits up next season at least they can just go


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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 11 May 2019 08:01

Hound Very optimistic as mentioned of some of those prices, but if we let Nova go for £1m would be very disappointed

Bizarre mix of optimistic and pessimistic.

Don't agree we'll be trying to move on all those players at all. Don't agree we'll definitely want to keep Gunts and McCleary given their wages. The pair probably cost us as much as Meyler, McNulty, Nova and Kelly combined.

Snowball
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowball » 11 May 2019 10:15

Oilroyal
Snowball Quote

Players too good /would be silly to move on
Chris Gunter - experienced and dependable back up - should not sell
Garath McCleary - experienced and dependable back up - should not sell

These would be at the top of my sell list, not because I don't like them but they are on very good wages and neither are "for the future"


Interesting how different we all see things.

Whether Gunts and Gmac stay or not, I marked them both as “experienced and dependable back-ups”. And personally, I think they do have role to play in the future of this club. Cannot understand why any fan would object to having these two involved in helping the youngsters come through as both have been loyal, and both are model professionals. Both could have a very important role in shaping the future of this club.



If money were no object, sure, but they will be relatively big earners, on too much to be mere back up.

The top eleven earners should be the first eleven, surely?

Hound
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 11 May 2019 10:24

Depends. Wouldn’t expect The youngsters to be on as much.

McCleary actually re-signed pre Gourlay didn’t he? Might not be on as much as he could have been

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Oilroyal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Oilroyal » 11 May 2019 10:49

I think it’s down to both players to decide as both are still under contract.

Gmac’s is 32 in a few days and Gunter turns 30 this July. Do they look for one last move this summer, or do they stay and contribute both on and off the pitch and then leave on a free in 12 months. Or does the club recognise that they could offer us more than just players coming to the end of their careers and more than a quick cash in opportunity? Should we not consider developing them into player/coach/backroom roles within the next 2 years? As I’ve said before, both have given a lot to the club over the years. And Gunter being the most capped international in history of the Welsh team should speak volumes. We should be looking to develop both players into something more than just another couple of players we’ve move on. Afterall, building a team is about hearts and minds and club values. If I was in their position, I would be looking to develop my career with this club after my playing days. And working out of the new Bearwood facility would appeal to most. I have a feeling both will be here after the summer.


Zip
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 11 May 2019 11:27

Oilroyal I think it’s down to both players to decide as both are still under contract.

Gmac’s is 32 in a few days and Gunter turns 30 this July. Do they look for one last move this summer, or do they stay and contribute both on and off the pitch and then leave on a free in 12 months. Or does the club recognise that they could offer us more than just players coming to the end of their careers and more than a quick cash in opportunity? Should we not consider developing them into player/coach/backroom roles within the next 2 years? As I’ve said before, both have given a lot to the club over the years. And Gunter being the most capped international in history of the Welsh team should speak volumes. We should be looking to develop both players into something more than just another couple of players we’ve move on. Afterall, building a team is about hearts and minds and club values. If I was in their position, I would be looking to develop my career with this club after my playing days. And working out of the new Bearwood facility would appeal to most. I have a feeling both will be here after the summer.


Agree with this. There are plenty of players we can move on who are barely involved in the match day squad. These two may not be automatic starters but they play a part. They are highly experienced. We need balance. It can't just be about bringing in our academy players alongside three or four senior pros. We do need to keep a number of senior pros.

As you say they may have a role to play on the coaching side going forward too.

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72 bus
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by 72 bus » 11 May 2019 11:32

Oilroyal I think it’s down to both players to decide as both are still under contract.

Gmac’s is 32 in a few days and Gunter turns 30 this July. Do they look for one last move this summer, or do they stay and contribute both on and off the pitch and then leave on a free in 12 months. Or does the club recognise that they could offer us more than just players coming to the end of their careers and more than a quick cash in opportunity? Should we not consider developing them into player/coach/backroom roles within the next 2 years? As I’ve said before, both have given a lot to the club over the years. And Gunter being the most capped international in history of the Welsh team should speak volumes. We should be looking to develop both players into something more than just another couple of players we’ve move on. Afterall, building a team is about hearts and minds and club values. If I was in their position, I would be looking to develop my career with this club after my playing days. And working out of the new Bearwood facility would appeal to most. I have a feeling both will be here after the summer.


Gomes will want his own people, he already has those in place and it's working well.
We cannot just hand out jobs based on sentiment and I for one cannot wait to see the back of Gunter, worst right back we have had for years.
GMac was useful a few years back but let's be honest here, he is no longer fast enough for this league and probably too expensive.
No place for sentiment when it comes to players, if they can no longer cut it then it's the glue factory next.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 11 May 2019 11:33

That's all great, but not the point. The club needs to cut costs, both of them last got a contract when we were still looking at going back up and FFP was less of a concern, and having been originally signed for the PL.

Can we realistically afford their level of wage for back up players? Hence prime targets to move on regardless of other factors.

And we can still sign senior pros of decent quality to replace them to supplement the Academy graduates we'll need to lean on.hm

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Ryucoo
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Ryucoo » 11 May 2019 11:41

Decent players but not good value for money


muirinho
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by muirinho » 11 May 2019 12:00

Zip
Oilroyal I think it’s down to both players to decide as both are still under contract.

Gmac’s is 32 in a few days and Gunter turns 30 this July. Do they look for one last move this summer, or do they stay and contribute both on and off the pitch and then leave on a free in 12 months. Or does the club recognise that they could offer us more than just players coming to the end of their careers and more than a quick cash in opportunity? Should we not consider developing them into player/coach/backroom roles within the next 2 years? As I’ve said before, both have given a lot to the club over the years. And Gunter being the most capped international in history of the Welsh team should speak volumes. We should be looking to develop both players into something more than just another couple of players we’ve move on. Afterall, building a team is about hearts and minds and club values. If I was in their position, I would be looking to develop my career with this club after my playing days. And working out of the new Bearwood facility would appeal to most. I have a feeling both will be here after the summer.


Agree with this. There are plenty of players we can move on who are barely involved in the match day squad. These two may not be automatic starters but they play a part. They are highly experienced. We need balance. It can't just be about bringing in our academy players alongside three or four senior pros. We do need to keep a number of senior pros.

As you say they may have a role to play on the coaching side going forward too.


I like both McCleary and Gunter. (Note McCleary got 4 assists this season which is decent in comparison to many of the other midfielders). They are certainly good enough to play a part next season.

BUT if they are both on big salaries, I would still let them go, if possible.

Andy Yiadom and Liam Moore are not young, in footballing terms. They are both experienced players. Also, if we *still* need experience, I'm sure we can get experience at a cheaper rate than what McCleary and Gunter are reported to be on.

If you want coaches, get in coaching staff, they are cheaper. If either wants to move into coaching, let them finish up playing, and go and do their badges, and then look to see if they want to come back.

We don't have enough money to be subisdising rich players' coaching apprenticeships.

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Oilroyal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Oilroyal » 11 May 2019 12:10

Interesting debate and I’m sure we’ll debate the outcome of both players once we know for sure.

A lot of posters referring to the “money they’re on”. Do we know how much that is/would be, has it been published anywhere, or do we just feel that their wage, no matter how much no longer warrants their place here anymore?

Zip
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Zip » 11 May 2019 14:11

muirinho
Zip
Oilroyal I think it’s down to both players to decide as both are still under contract.

Gmac’s is 32 in a few days and Gunter turns 30 this July. Do they look for one last move this summer, or do they stay and contribute both on and off the pitch and then leave on a free in 12 months. Or does the club recognise that they could offer us more than just players coming to the end of their careers and more than a quick cash in opportunity? Should we not consider developing them into player/coach/backroom roles within the next 2 years? As I’ve said before, both have given a lot to the club over the years. And Gunter being the most capped international in history of the Welsh team should speak volumes. We should be looking to develop both players into something more than just another couple of players we’ve move on. Afterall, building a team is about hearts and minds and club values. If I was in their position, I would be looking to develop my career with this club after my playing days. And working out of the new Bearwood facility would appeal to most. I have a feeling both will be here after the summer.


Agree with this. There are plenty of players we can move on who are barely involved in the match day squad. These two may not be automatic starters but they play a part. They are highly experienced. We need balance. It can't just be about bringing in our academy players alongside three or four senior pros. We do need to keep a number of senior pros.

As you say they may have a role to play on the coaching side going forward too.


I like both McCleary and Gunter. (Note McCleary got 4 assists this season which is decent in comparison to many of the other midfielders). They are certainly good enough to play a part next season.

BUT if they are both on big salaries, I would still let them go, if possible.

Andy Yiadom and Liam Moore are not young, in footballing terms. They are both experienced players. Also, if we *still* need experience, I'm sure we can get experience at a cheaper rate than what McCleary and Gunter are reported to be on.

If you want coaches, get in coaching staff, they are cheaper. If either wants to move into coaching, let them finish up playing, and go and do their badges, and then look to see if they want to come back.

We don't have enough money to be subisdising rich players' coaching apprenticeships.


I think there may be some overstating how much Gunter and McCleary are on. They both have one year left on their deals. We may not be able to bring in replacements for them without paying a transfer fee. Any half decent replacement will want to be on decent wages as well so any savings made by moving them on will not amount to much.

muirinho
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by muirinho » 11 May 2019 14:27

Zip
muirinho
Zip
Agree with this. There are plenty of players we can move on who are barely involved in the match day squad. These two may not be automatic starters but they play a part. They are highly experienced. We need balance. It can't just be about bringing in our academy players alongside three or four senior pros. We do need to keep a number of senior pros.

As you say they may have a role to play on the coaching side going forward too.


I like both McCleary and Gunter. (Note McCleary got 4 assists this season which is decent in comparison to many of the other midfielders). They are certainly good enough to play a part next season.

BUT if they are both on big salaries, I would still let them go, if possible.

Andy Yiadom and Liam Moore are not young, in footballing terms. They are both experienced players. Also, if we *still* need experience, I'm sure we can get experience at a cheaper rate than what McCleary and Gunter are reported to be on.

If you want coaches, get in coaching staff, they are cheaper. If either wants to move into coaching, let them finish up playing, and go and do their badges, and then look to see if they want to come back.

We don't have enough money to be subisdising rich players' coaching apprenticeships.


I think there may be some overstating how much Gunter and McCleary are on. They both have one year left on their deals. We may not be able to bring in replacements for them without paying a transfer fee. Any half decent replacement will want to be on decent wages as well so any savings made by moving them on will not amount to much.


Agreed - me wanting them to go is based on the assumption that their salaries are high relative to the rest of the squad. Unlike some of the others that will be leaving over the summer, they would both need to be replaced, they aren't surpus to requirements

All boils down to the financials for me.

Also would quite enjoy watching some hobnobbers have a mini-meltdown if Gunter stays :D

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Snowflake Royal » 11 May 2019 16:44

Zip
muirinho
Zip
Agree with this. There are plenty of players we can move on who are barely involved in the match day squad. These two may not be automatic starters but they play a part. They are highly experienced. We need balance. It can't just be about bringing in our academy players alongside three or four senior pros. We do need to keep a number of senior pros.

As you say they may have a role to play on the coaching side going forward too.


I like both McCleary and Gunter. (Note McCleary got 4 assists this season which is decent in comparison to many of the other midfielders). They are certainly good enough to play a part next season.

BUT if they are both on big salaries, I would still let them go, if possible.

Andy Yiadom and Liam Moore are not young, in footballing terms. They are both experienced players. Also, if we *still* need experience, I'm sure we can get experience at a cheaper rate than what McCleary and Gunter are reported to be on.

If you want coaches, get in coaching staff, they are cheaper. If either wants to move into coaching, let them finish up playing, and go and do their badges, and then look to see if they want to come back.

We don't have enough money to be subisdising rich players' coaching apprenticeships.


I think there may be some overstating how much Gunter and McCleary are on. They both have one year left on their deals. We may not be able to bring in replacements for them without paying a transfer fee. Any half decent replacement will want to be on decent wages as well so any savings made by moving them on will not amount to much.

Pretty simple for me. Both last signed contracts as first team regulars whilst we were getting parachute payments and our wage budget was >£30m. Both were originally signed as PL players, though are now on a different contract.

It seems pretty likely they're amongst our top earners with Moore and a few others.

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stealthpapes
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by stealthpapes » 14 May 2019 09:38



RIP sweet prince

Hound
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Re: Next Season's Squad.

by Hound » 14 May 2019 15:43

rumour is we are interested in this chap on a free - Josh Morris from Scunny. Probably best known for this dodgy goal - in fairness, its a great finish...

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... arks-melee

actually has a very decent L1 record.

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