London Irish. WHY???

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

You need to accept that there are multiple ways in which LI are currently more successful than RFC. The clearest least debateable is where each sit in their respective leagues structures. The fact that there are also some ways in which the reverse is true is undeniable but doesn;t disprove the original claim I made.

what are these multiple ways?

They are higher in their league, but their league is a much smaller competition, making finishing higher up much easier, and much less of an achievement.

[Muskrat]

[It's only 4th best if you count aggregate crowds arather than average. Serie A's average was 6000 higher than the championship last year, and Bundesliga 2 also had a higher average.

Agreed. I think the Football League's Press Release was a bit misleading on this and I took it to mean the average.

Average attendance in the Guinness Premiership by the way - 10,880.

[Sun Tzu]

You need to accept that there are multiple ways in which LI are currently more successful than RFC. The clearest least debateable is where each sit in their respective leagues structures. The fact that there are also some ways in which the reverse is true is undeniable but doesn;t disprove the original claim I made.

what are these multiple ways?

They are higher in their league, but their league is a much smaller competition, making finishing higher up much easier, and much less of an achievement.

Well being higher up their league is obviously an achievement. The prmeier League is a smaller league than he Championship but I'm not sure that makes finishing 3rd in the Prem less of an achievement than finishing 3rd in the Championship does it ? Irish are 3rd and in with a shout of winning the top league for their sport, we're in with a shout of second place in a lower level league.

Apart from that Irish are winning games (and winning them well). they are playing in European competition and looking good for at least a semi final spot in roughly their equivalent of the UEFA Cup. They are looking good for a spot in their equivalent of the Champions League.

So far the Royals have 'bigger crowds' as their claim to being more successful at the moment. I'm a Royals fan, but I can;t see as case for us being 'more successful' than Irish, unless you start using very odd criteria that fall down as soon as you use them to compare football clubs.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

You need to accept that there are multiple ways in which LI are currently more successful than RFC. The clearest least debateable is where each sit in their respective leagues structures. The fact that there are also some ways in which the reverse is true is undeniable but doesn;t disprove the original claim I made.

what are these multiple ways?

They are higher in their league, but their league is a much smaller competition, making finishing higher up much easier, and much less of an achievement.

Well being higher up their league is obviously an achievement. The prmeier League is a smaller league than he Championship but I'm not sure that makes finishing 3rd in the Prem less of an achievement than finishing 3rd in the Championship does it ? Irish are 3rd and in with a shout of winning the top league for their sport, we're in with a shout of second place in a lower level league.

Apart from that Irish are winning games (and winning them well). they are playing in European competition and looking good for at least a semi final spot in roughly their equivalent of the UEFA Cup. They are looking good for a spot in their equivalent of the Champions League.

So far the Royals have 'bigger crowds' as their claim to being more successful at the moment. I'm a Royals fan, but I can;t see as case for us being 'more successful' than Irish, unless you start using very odd criteria that fall down as soon as you use them to compare football clubs.

I'm not on about the size of the division, but the size of the structure of the game. Towns that wouldn't get nearly the Conference South in football can field teams capable of playing in England's second tier. Finishing third in Rugby's top tier is less of an achievement than finishing 8th in the premiership, because it's easier.

Bracknell Bees have won ice hockey's equivalent of the premiership. Does that make them domestically more successful than Liverpool over the last 20 years?

I think it would be fair to say London Irish are doing better than Reading right now, but that's about it.

[Sun Tzu]

I think it would be fair to say London Irish are doing better than Reading right now, but that's about it.

I'm wondering why you've taken so long to actually agree with my statement that currently LI are more succesful than RFC !!

The point about the size of town seems utterly irrelevant unless you can explain why it matters.

Also can;t see how you can think it is 'easier' to do well in the Guiness Prem than in the Premier League. I can;t see Man Utd putting up much of a show against even Bristol. Both the Guiness Prem and the PL are the top leagues for their sports, both sports are significant world sports. It seems reasonable to suggest that if one team is actually in their 'premier' league and another isn't in theirs then the one who IS in the Prem is the more succesful !

In case you hadn't noticed Reading are not currently in the Premier League....

[Muskrat]

The clearest least debateable is where each sit in their respective leagues structures.

So earlier on this season, Hull City were more sucessful than Man Utd then?

[Stranded]

The clearest least debateable is where each sit in their respective leagues structures.

So earlier on this season, Hull City were more sucessful than Man Utd then?

If you want to take a measure like that, at particular point they were as far as the current season goes - it's a moot point as it was so early in the season.

The difference in Sun's arguement, is regardless where the two clubs finish in their respective codes, LI will finish in a higher position that Reading meaning that in this season they've been more successful.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I think it would be fair to say London Irish are doing better than Reading right now, but that's about it.

I'm wondering why you've taken so long to actually agree with my statement that currently LI are more succesful than RFC !!

The point about the size of town seems utterly irrelevant unless you can explain why it matters.

Also can;t see how you can think it is 'easier' to do well in the Guiness Prem than in the Premier League. I can;t see Man Utd putting up much of a show against even Bristol. Both the Guiness Prem and the PL are the top leagues for their sports, both sports are significant world sports. It seems reasonable to suggest that if one team is actually in their 'premier' league and another isn't in theirs then the one who IS in the Prem is the more succesful !

In case you hadn't noticed Reading are not currently in the Premier League....

Put it this way, do you really not see how a in (hypothetical) competition with 100 competitors, it's a bigger achievement to be 25th than it is to be 4th in a competion which only has 10 in it? I'm not on about the size of a league table. I'm on about competition as a whole. It's far easier for England, for example, to make a world cup final in rugby league than it is in football, because so few nations play it. Because so few places play rugby, there are very few serious rugby clubs, which is why it's possible for the likes of Newbury, Henley or Bracknell to have far more success than they could ever hope to achieve in football. And likewise, being in rugby's top flight is easier than being in football's, and therefore less of an achievement.

To take it to the nth degree, when I was about 14 I had a snooker table. A mate and I invented our own derivative of snooker, and we'd regularly play for the "World Championship" of our snooker type game. Do my multiple world championships of that era make me successful than Stephen Hendry, or do you think that the fact that only two people in the entire world played the game meant that my world championships were rather easier to come by?

[Sun Tzu]

I'd agree there are fewer top class rugby teams in this country than football clubs.

However the top level of rugby is an extremely high level and competitive competition. It's stuffed full of world class players. I really can't see an argument that says being outside the top division of football is 'more successful' than being at the very top of the top division in rugby.

I'd hate to see where the great Aussie test side of the last decade ranks with you, given that they've played in a 'competition' that just about scrapes 10 sides of whom 2 are non competitive ! Barely rates a mention in the 'success' stakes !

[The Rouge]

Been a pretty awful pitch for the second half of this season. It has definitely had an impact especially when we have been chasing games.

Is there a London Irish game taking place tonight as well?!

[Turns8]

Oh yes...and it's going to rain all day

[Thaumagurist*]

They should cancel the Rugby.

[heathrow royal]

There is a challenge cup game tonight. I can only imagine that the game was scheduled for tonight before sky decided to bring the sheff utd game forward to friday evening

[premiership_bound]

The rugby was originally scheduled for Wednsday and Sky put it back 1 day to show on TV. Football was Saturday and Sky brought it forwadr one day. Suppose it was to save them money on camera set up costs etc. Pitch will be interesting

[hughsies no.1]

this is ridiculous! how is the pitch going to be able to repair itself by tomorrow! surely someone at the club should be saying something. potentially the biggest match of our season so far and where going to be playing on a bog which will just result in doobs hoofing every ball upfield (not that the pitch needs to be a state for him to do that!). i know we cant really liken us to england but remember when we played croatia at wembley and nfl was on the pitch a few days before and look what happend...

[Dirk Gently]

If the pitch cuts up after the rugby it'll favour the team that plays without creativity and imagination, the team without dangerous wingers, the team that just hoofs the ball forward missing out the midfield.

<insert your own punchline here>

[rhroyal]

Much as the pitch is horrific, both teams have to play with it. We've been playing on a poor surface since January. Surely it should suit us?

[Alan Partridge]

They should cancel Rugby.

[Turns8]

Much as the pitch is horrific, both teams have to play with it. We've been playing on a poor surface since January. Surely it should suit us?

You would think so...but it's not the pitch which has been poor...it's the team playing on it

[RobRoyal]

Much as the pitch is horrific, both teams have to play with it. We've been playing on a poor surface since January. Surely it should suit us?

Our recent home form suggests it's not quite working that way.