Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Loafer » 11 Dec 2022 11:31

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Millsy One of the worst f**king refs I've seen. Was just not anywhere near capable of officiating a world cup match.

Eg missing the most blatant penalty ont he competition, forced to accept it only after VAR. An example of the sort of blind cluelessmess he displayed all night as Saka was being hackes to pieces. Stupid ugly arsed clueless tosser. That is all.

Still well done to France. Scored 2 of the 4 actual chances they created. Can concentrate on Reading now.

You obviously didin't see the ref's performance Friday during Netherlands/Argentina. Truly the worse ever.
Hope the French win it and not Argentina, anyone but Argentina.


Thought the Friday ref was horrendous. Yesterday's was awful too but the Holland game ref was far worse imo

He completely lost the plot in that game

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Orion1871 » 11 Dec 2022 11:34

tulip
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tulip You obviously didin't see the ref's performance Friday during Netherlands/Argentina. Truly the worse ever.
Hope the French win it and not Argentina, anyone but Argentina.


Just because the Argies celebrated in your faces? apparently the Dutch players were giving it some verbal during the shoot out, don`t give it if they can`t take it
Anybody but France for me

Not just that (which was appalling) but giving every decision to Argentina.


Got to get Messi to the final.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Royal Rother » 11 Dec 2022 11:54

Gotta love a conspiracy theory or 2.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by leon » 11 Dec 2022 13:27

Argentina for me. Bring it on.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Franchise FC » 11 Dec 2022 14:07

URZZZZ Another good tournament from Southgate - the defeat is disappointing of course but not unexpected to France. The question remains whether being “good” can suffice to win major tournaments however and whether he has it in him to make the next step. The game plan worked well but the lack of subs (and then the choice of subs) were really poor. We saw the impact the Dutch had the night before by throwing on a taller striker and playing off him yet Wilson didn’t even get a sniff. Poor decision IMO

Don’t particularly agree with blaming the ref, he wasn’t great and got things wrong (like the foul on Saka before their first) but it’s a bit far fetched to blame him for an infringement 90 yards away

Wasn’t Wilson injured ?
I’m sure he missed at least one session of training if not more.
We didn’t have a 6’ 6” striker to bring on anyway as Wilson is 5’ 10”


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by South Coast Royal » 11 Dec 2022 14:11

URZZZZ Another good tournament from Southgate - the defeat is disappointing of course but not unexpected to France. The question remains whether being “good” can suffice to win major tournaments however and whether he has it in him to make the next step. The game plan worked well but the lack of subs (and then the choice of subs) were really poor. We saw the impact the Dutch had the night before by throwing on a taller striker and playing off him yet Wilson didn’t even get a sniff. Poor decision IMO

Don’t particularly agree with blaming the ref, he wasn’t great and got things wrong (like the foul on Saka before their first) but it’s a bit far fetched to blame him for an infringement 90 yards away


Agree with this poster as I quite often do.

We lost because we didn't take a golden chance to equalise, didn't create enough clear cut other opportunities and our 3 defenders allowed themselves to be outjumped by a geriatric following an orthodox cross.

Pundits last night, the same pundits who earlier praised the more relaxed approach of refereeing minor challenges in this tournament, suddenly didn't like the refereeing style because it affected England.

Both Saka and Kane regularly "go down too easily" as the saying goes and we see evidence each week in the Premier League.
Referees, wherever they come from, know which players are like this but fortunately Saka going down in the box was clear cut.
The other penalty would have been dubious from a distance as it looked as though the defender was doing what so many do in shepherding the ball to the keeper.
VAR came up trumps after the clear push was seen, or rather, the ref came up trumps after looking at the screen.

In football it is often hard enough to get 1 penalty ,and getting 2 is almost unheard of, so we had 2 opportunities to score and Kane missed one of them-it happens to better players than him ,including Messi in this tournament, but I feel that we rely far too much on set pieces rather than otherwise created chances.
I agree with those posters that suggest a second penalty taker should have been used but, with his record, it is hard to question Kane taking it and don't forget it wasn't Kane's miss that lost us the game as it would only have meant a draw and no doubt we would have cocked up if it came to penalties later.

Our midfield 3 last night was made up of 3 typical hard-running workhorses , or "water carriers" as that idiot Cantona once said of world cup winner Deschamps.
It is essential to have a couple of those but ours don't have the flair pass in them to split defenders in tight areas and create good chances for strikers.
We don't have a Griezmann or a Modric ,even if we do have Maddison and an underperforming Foden last night, and until we find a way of including such a player we may well end up falling short when it comes to the final stages of tournaments.

So, nobody to blame, not even the manager because he obviously felt that Grealish or Sterling or Rashford might have done something and Maddison hadn't played a single minute of the tournament.
We are a good team without any real stars who are not far off the best but in sports like rugby and football we just don't tend to have that little bit extra to make us winners.

Oh well, all quiet again for a couple of years, as we look enviously upon the teams that make the final and who would have thought that the ageing lot from little old Croatia would do better than us again?

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by South Coast Royal » 11 Dec 2022 14:12

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URZZZZ Another good tournament from Southgate - the defeat is disappointing of course but not unexpected to France. The question remains whether being “good” can suffice to win major tournaments however and whether he has it in him to make the next step. The game plan worked well but the lack of subs (and then the choice of subs) were really poor. We saw the impact the Dutch had the night before by throwing on a taller striker and playing off him yet Wilson didn’t even get a sniff. Poor decision IMO

Don’t particularly agree with blaming the ref, he wasn’t great and got things wrong (like the foul on Saka before their first) but it’s a bit far fetched to blame him for an infringement 90 yards away

Wasn’t Wilson injured ?
I’m sure he missed at least one session of training if not more.
We didn’t have a 6’ 6” striker to bring on anyway as Wilson is 5’ 10”


Having met him I would say he is even shorter than that.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Ascotexgunner » 11 Dec 2022 17:10

Snowflake Royal Glad I won't be missing England win a world cup.


Agree with you. It's never felt like a World Cup and I've had no interest in it. I'd have been inconsolable if Wales had played like that in a real World Cup.
The disgusting sports washing by the Quataris seems to be working as protesting seems to have gone quiet.
Rumour is the Saudis are going for 2030...

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by URZZZZ » 11 Dec 2022 17:18

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URZZZZ Another good tournament from Southgate - the defeat is disappointing of course but not unexpected to France. The question remains whether being “good” can suffice to win major tournaments however and whether he has it in him to make the next step. The game plan worked well but the lack of subs (and then the choice of subs) were really poor. We saw the impact the Dutch had the night before by throwing on a taller striker and playing off him yet Wilson didn’t even get a sniff. Poor decision IMO

Don’t particularly agree with blaming the ref, he wasn’t great and got things wrong (like the foul on Saka before their first) but it’s a bit far fetched to blame him for an infringement 90 yards away

Wasn’t Wilson injured ?
I’m sure he missed at least one session of training if not more.
We didn’t have a 6’ 6” striker to bring on anyway as Wilson is 5’ 10”


Back in training two days ago

Regardless, even if he isn’t 100%, we’re talking about a knockout game with minutes left. He’s certainly a more physical, aggressive striker and extra bodies in the box helps in the latter stages of games. 95th minute yet Maguire was still on the halfway line? Why is he not in the box at that stage?

Mount and Sterling get a fair bit of criticism which I don’t necessarily agree with but were they really the right subs to make having just gone 2-1 down?
(Yes, I’m aware Mount won the penalty but was more down to the reckless defending)


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by URZZZZ » 11 Dec 2022 17:32

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URZZZZ Another good tournament from Southgate - the defeat is disappointing of course but not unexpected to France. The question remains whether being “good” can suffice to win major tournaments however and whether he has it in him to make the next step. The game plan worked well but the lack of subs (and then the choice of subs) were really poor. We saw the impact the Dutch had the night before by throwing on a taller striker and playing off him yet Wilson didn’t even get a sniff. Poor decision IMO

Don’t particularly agree with blaming the ref, he wasn’t great and got things wrong (like the foul on Saka before their first) but it’s a bit far fetched to blame him for an infringement 90 yards away


It is essential to have a couple of those but ours don't have the flair pass in them to split defenders in tight areas and create good chances for strikers.
We don't have a Griezmann or a Modric ,even if we do have Maddison and an underperforming Foden last night, and until we find a way of including such a player we may well end up falling short when it comes to the final stages of tournaments.



I think part of the issue is that at times, Kane is our best playmaker. Spurs’ style facilitates that as they play with these “inverted forwards” with Son and Kulukevski playing narrow with their runs in behind. Unfortunately it doesn’t quite work to the same accord for England as Saka and Foden and co generally stay wider

It worked at times, first goal against Senegal came as a result of that movement, Kane dropping deep and Bellingham and Henderson pushing on. But against the top nations, you need more variation in your attacking patterns and we unfortunately didn’t have that and as you say, aside from our set pieces and one Kane opportunity, we didn’t muster enough goal scoring opportunities

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Winston Biscuit » 11 Dec 2022 17:33


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Ascotexgunner » 11 Dec 2022 18:13



Aye, you can take Harry Kane out of Tottenham.....but...you can't take Tottenham out of Harry Kane.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Dec 2022 08:50

URZZZZ
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URZZZZ Another good tournament from Southgate - the defeat is disappointing of course but not unexpected to France. The question remains whether being “good” can suffice to win major tournaments however and whether he has it in him to make the next step. The game plan worked well but the lack of subs (and then the choice of subs) were really poor. We saw the impact the Dutch had the night before by throwing on a taller striker and playing off him yet Wilson didn’t even get a sniff. Poor decision IMO

Don’t particularly agree with blaming the ref, he wasn’t great and got things wrong (like the foul on Saka before their first) but it’s a bit far fetched to blame him for an infringement 90 yards away


It is essential to have a couple of those but ours don't have the flair pass in them to split defenders in tight areas and create good chances for strikers.
We don't have a Griezmann or a Modric ,even if we do have Maddison and an underperforming Foden last night, and until we find a way of including such a player we may well end up falling short when it comes to the final stages of tournaments.



I think part of the issue is that at times, Kane is our best playmaker. Spurs’ style facilitates that as they play with these “inverted forwards” with Son and Kulukevski playing narrow with their runs in behind. Unfortunately it doesn’t quite work to the same accord for England as Saka and Foden and co generally stay wider

It worked at times, first goal against Senegal came as a result of that movement, Kane dropping deep and Bellingham and Henderson pushing on. But against the top nations, you need more variation in your attacking patterns and we unfortunately didn’t have that and as you say, aside from our set pieces and one Kane opportunity, we didn’t muster enough goal scoring opportunities


I thought we had plenty of chances against France. Maguire's header, Saka's opportunity first time 12 yards out, Kane's second penalty and Rashford's free kick I'd call pretty good chances. Saka's wasn't easy, but still a good chance and more than what France mustered up throughout.

There just always seems to be something with England. We usually get edged out/are second best against better opposition, but I think we more than matched them for large parts of the game and were actually better in the second half, so it's certainly gutting to go out considering we performed better than we normally do. It's still something to build on and we have a lot of young talent in this squad and coming through, so I don't think all hope is lost, it's just another 4 year (3 and a half technically) wait for another World Cup.


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by 6ft Kerplunk » 12 Dec 2022 09:20

Are there any young pacey defenders coming through the U18/U21s? That's what the team is lacking.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Stranded » 12 Dec 2022 09:38

Obviously in a massive minority but don't think the ref was that bad.

DId he miss a foul on Saka in the build up to the French first goal, could be argued yes but it was at was 30 seconds before the goal was scored and the kind of challenge that goes unpunished about as often as it gets blown up for. England had plenty of opportunity to stop the goal but didn't.

1st half pen shout - not sure on his angle but yes he missed that one but it was a free kick not a penalty, so absolutely not buying the we woz robbed angle there.

2nd pen - don't think he could see the challenge due to players in his way, so can't give what you don't see and it's what VAR is there for. One penalty challenge he could see, he gave immediately.

Ref has become this years scapegoat as a lot of England fans and the press in particular seem unable to accept that they just lost - there has to be a reason behind it.

Fact is England played very well up to the final third but failed to really create any good chances and were in essence reliant on the pens they rightly got. Outside of Kane turning his man in the first and Bellingham's drive in the second there was nothing from open play. Maguire should have done better with his header and perhaps a stiker there would have realised the time he had and tried to bring it down first.

Overall, 2 good sides, the French created a couple of very good openings (Giroud should have scored minutes before he did) and hit one very good long ranger - England pressed, looked threatening but failed to convert the pressure into telling chances. Another day, England win but Saturday was not that day.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Stranded » 12 Dec 2022 09:39

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It is essential to have a couple of those but ours don't have the flair pass in them to split defenders in tight areas and create good chances for strikers.
We don't have a Griezmann or a Modric ,even if we do have Maddison and an underperforming Foden last night, and until we find a way of including such a player we may well end up falling short when it comes to the final stages of tournaments.



I think part of the issue is that at times, Kane is our best playmaker. Spurs’ style facilitates that as they play with these “inverted forwards” with Son and Kulukevski playing narrow with their runs in behind. Unfortunately it doesn’t quite work to the same accord for England as Saka and Foden and co generally stay wider

It worked at times, first goal against Senegal came as a result of that movement, Kane dropping deep and Bellingham and Henderson pushing on. But against the top nations, you need more variation in your attacking patterns and we unfortunately didn’t have that and as you say, aside from our set pieces and one Kane opportunity, we didn’t muster enough goal scoring opportunities


I thought we had plenty of chances against France. Maguire's header, Saka's opportunity first time 12 yards out, Kane's second penalty and Rashford's free kick I'd call pretty good chances. Saka's wasn't easy, but still a good chance and more than what France mustered up throughout.

There just always seems to be something with England. We usually get edged out/are second best against better opposition, but I think we more than matched them for large parts of the game and were actually better in the second half, so it's certainly gutting to go out considering we performed better than we normally do. It's still something to build on and we have a lot of young talent in this squad and coming through, so I don't think all hope is lost, it's just another 4 year (3 and a half technically) wait for another World Cup.


For the Saka one, do you mean the one in the second half where he fouled the French defender? A free kick was given at least, so even if it had gone in, it wouldn't have counted.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Dec 2022 09:58

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I think part of the issue is that at times, Kane is our best playmaker. Spurs’ style facilitates that as they play with these “inverted forwards” with Son and Kulukevski playing narrow with their runs in behind. Unfortunately it doesn’t quite work to the same accord for England as Saka and Foden and co generally stay wider

It worked at times, first goal against Senegal came as a result of that movement, Kane dropping deep and Bellingham and Henderson pushing on. But against the top nations, you need more variation in your attacking patterns and we unfortunately didn’t have that and as you say, aside from our set pieces and one Kane opportunity, we didn’t muster enough goal scoring opportunities


I thought we had plenty of chances against France. Maguire's header, Saka's opportunity first time 12 yards out, Kane's second penalty and Rashford's free kick I'd call pretty good chances. Saka's wasn't easy, but still a good chance and more than what France mustered up throughout.

There just always seems to be something with England. We usually get edged out/are second best against better opposition, but I think we more than matched them for large parts of the game and were actually better in the second half, so it's certainly gutting to go out considering we performed better than we normally do. It's still something to build on and we have a lot of young talent in this squad and coming through, so I don't think all hope is lost, it's just another 4 year (3 and a half technically) wait for another World Cup.


For the Saka one, do you mean the one in the second half where he fouled the French defender? A free kick was given at least, so even if it had gone in, it wouldn't have counted.


Ah yes it was that one sorry. I always seem to remember that one as a chance because I didn't know what the referee had given there so tend to forget it. Even still, take that one out of it and we've still had a few good chances along with a couple of decisions which didn't go our way, France didn't have a great deal more than what we did from memory.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Stranded » 12 Dec 2022 10:09

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I thought we had plenty of chances against France. Maguire's header, Saka's opportunity first time 12 yards out, Kane's second penalty and Rashford's free kick I'd call pretty good chances. Saka's wasn't easy, but still a good chance and more than what France mustered up throughout.

There just always seems to be something with England. We usually get edged out/are second best against better opposition, but I think we more than matched them for large parts of the game and were actually better in the second half, so it's certainly gutting to go out considering we performed better than we normally do. It's still something to build on and we have a lot of young talent in this squad and coming through, so I don't think all hope is lost, it's just another 4 year (3 and a half technically) wait for another World Cup.


For the Saka one, do you mean the one in the second half where he fouled the French defender? A free kick was given at least, so even if it had gone in, it wouldn't have counted.


Ah yes it was that one sorry. I always seem to remember that one as a chance because I didn't know what the referee had given there so tend to forget it. Even still, take that one out of it and we've still had a few good chances along with a couple of decisions which didn't go our way, France didn't have a great deal more than what we did from memory.


Key difference for me is France created their chances in open play and weren't reliant on set pieces (nothing wrong with that in itself but is reliant on the decisions being given). Their first was a low percentage shot naturally but still space was worked well for him to hit it but they created 2 massive chances for Giroud, one of which was taken - so agreed whilst they didn't create much more they created better quality chances and that is often the difference at that level esp. when the sides were so well matched.

Maguire's header from that distance was more of a half chance really, he was what 12/14 yards out and Rashford's free kick would have been one hell of a goal at any point let alone in the 99th minute - if those are the kind of chances are team are relying on to win a game then they will, unfortunately, lose more than they win particularly when comparing directly to the quality of France's chances.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by jd82 » 12 Dec 2022 10:15

Quite difficult to create chance from open play if you get fouled any time you're near the box.

Somehow this was the easiest exit for me to take. Yes, the ref was shit, but there didn't feel like a massive injustice to gripe about ( a la Lampard v Germany), we just didn't quite have enough on the night. Having said that, i think we win if Kane scores the penalty.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 12 Dec 2022 10:35

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For the Saka one, do you mean the one in the second half where he fouled the French defender? A free kick was given at least, so even if it had gone in, it wouldn't have counted.


Ah yes it was that one sorry. I always seem to remember that one as a chance because I didn't know what the referee had given there so tend to forget it. Even still, take that one out of it and we've still had a few good chances along with a couple of decisions which didn't go our way, France didn't have a great deal more than what we did from memory.


Key difference for me is France created their chances in open play and weren't reliant on set pieces (nothing wrong with that in itself but is reliant on the decisions being given). Their first was a low percentage shot naturally but still space was worked well for him to hit it but they created 2 massive chances for Giroud, one of which was taken - so agreed whilst they didn't create much more they created better quality chances and that is often the difference at that level esp. when the sides were so well matched.

Maguire's header from that distance was more of a half chance really, he was what 12/14 yards out and Rashford's free kick would have been one hell of a goal at any point let alone in the 99th minute - if those are the kind of chances are team are relying on to win a game then they will, unfortunately, lose more than they win particularly when comparing directly to the quality of France's chances.


I wouldn't say what France created were any better, including the goal. As you say, their first was a shot from distance that shouldn't really have gone in, but it was well struck and Pickford saw it late so a bit of benefit of the doubt there. Giroud's second header only goes in as it deflects off Maguire's arm/shoulder, otherwise I don't think it goes in but it's obviously quite difficult to judge.

We had 2 spot kicks from 12 yards and, yes whilst these chances were difficult, they weren't anymore difficult than France's for me. A free kick from 20 yards is a chance at any level, let alone a World Cup QF with the quality on the field and Maguire's was a free header, I think his reaction tells you what you need to know that he felt he should have done better with it. I think those 4 chances are significantly better than what France had, arguably France's "easiest" chance was the one they missed through Giroud.

Again, i'm not suggesting any of our chances were easy, but I still think they were "easier" than what France had. France have an experienced set of winners and found a way to win, they had as much pressure as what we did yet managed to score twice.

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