Euro 2012 - Group Stages

[Franchise FC]

Yes, but Hodgson gets paid huge sums of money for making his decisions whereas I just post on here for a bit of fun.

And so far Roy has earned his dosh - right selections, right tactics, good substitutions

[Hoop Blah]

Yes, but Hodgson gets paid huge sums of money for making his decisions whereas I just post on here for a bit of fun.

Does that mean others can't discuss or critique your views then?

You seem to have gone a bit frimmers over this one RR.

[southbank1871]

RR - do you not r8 Rooney in general, even for United, or is it just for England that you think he's useless?

[Silver Fox]

Forget that, it's irrelevant. That was not good movement or striker's instinct - he was just dead lucky to be in the right place at the right time. The cross touched 3 defenders before it reached him.

You might want to sit the next few plays out there champ

Err, yeah sure. I guess that's an adapted line from a shit American movie, right?

No, it's from Anchorman

[southbank1871]

ZING

[Royal Rother]

[Royal Rother]

Yes, but Hodgson gets paid huge sums of money for making his decisions whereas I just post on here for a bit of fun.

Does that mean others can't discuss or critique your views then?

You seem to have gone a bit frimmers over this one RR.

What an odd question / inference. (I guess it was the use of the word "fun" that sent you into a bit of a tizzy.)

I am in a minority here and merely defending / supporting my views without dodging any / all points made as the aforementioned Frimmers delights in doing. No attempt made to belittle or insult anybody else's views about Rooney's performance on Monday that I can recall, (doubtless you'll do a thorough search to prove me wrong )just a fairly robust expression of .

Critique / discuss away. It's what we're here for.

That and a bit of fun, yes?

No?

[Extended-Phenotype]

I’m with ya Rother, to some degree.

I can understand why people would want the player with the promise to be world class involved as much as possible, but my fear like yours, is that we will be out by the time he gets up to speed.

What alarms me about Rooney is his first touch was pub. Rusty is one thing, but he’s not been out injured – it looked like he hadn’t touched a f/cking football in three months.

Which is what leads me to believe it has little to do with match fitness and more to do with pressure. We know he’s a great player (perhaps importantly, in the right team/set-up) but Man U fans worship him, they don’t scrutinise him – he has a pressure free stage.

This stage is watched by an audience with mixed opinions or even opinions waiting to be made. Like many of our ‘Golden Generation’ I think the difference between club idol-like-can-do-no-wrong-worship and national prove-your-hype-scrutiny is too great for him to handle.

I hope he proves me wrong, but each poor touch and bad pass to me reeks of a stressed player trying too hard to meet expectation

[Royal Rother]

RR - do you not r8 Rooney in general, even for United, or is it just for England that you think he's useless?

No, of course I acknowledge Rooney's class and ability, but he has, inho, nowhere near fulfilled his potential for England.

It was interesting on Monday that 2 minutes before half time as he came deeper and deeper to try to get involved, another pass went astray and he did the old arm waving, miming throwing something to the ground in frustration. That was the 1st time he had done that and I thought at that point, oops, he's gonna blow if this carries on... (ermm, I have no excuse for the Spacey style story telling I'm afraid...)

Fortunately, as we all know, just after the break he happened to get on the end of a fluke cross a couple of inches away from the goal line and that eased his frustration so he was able to settle down a bit, knowing he had "made a contribution" that would satisfy most observers.

I don't think he's "useless" for England full stop - just his performances generally don't do his talent justice.

[Royal Rother]

I’m with ya Rother, to some degree.

I can understand why people would want the player with the promise to be world class involved as much as possible, but my fear like yours, is that we will be out by the time he gets up to speed.

What alarms me about Rooney is his first touch was pub. Rusty is one thing, but he’s not been out injured – it looked like he hadn’t touched a f/cking football in three months.

Which is what leads me to believe it has little to do with match fitness and more to do with pressure. We know he’s a great player (perhaps importantly, in the right team/set-up) but Man U fans worship him, they don’t scrutinise him – he has a pressure free stage.

This stage is watched by an audience with mixed opinions or even opinions waiting to be made. Like many of our ‘Golden Generation’ I think the difference between club idol-like-can-do-no-wrong-worship and national prove-your-hype-scrutiny is too great for him to handle.

I hope he proves me wrong, but each poor touch and bad pass to me reeks of a stressed player trying too hard to meet expectation

Amen to every word of that.

[Schards#2]

I'm fully behind Royal Rother keeping this up.

He's slagged England as one of the two worst teams in the tournament - they won the group

He's slagged of Gerrard - he's been England's standout and one of the players of the tournament

He's slagged off Rooney - he scored the winner in his first game back

Keep up the good work

[No Fixed Abode]

I'm fully behind Royal Rother keeping this up.

He's slagged England as one of the two worst teams in the tournament - they won the group

He's slagged of Gerrard - he's been England's standout and one of the players of the tournament

He's slagged off Rooney - he scored the winner in his first game back

Keep up the good work

Pretty sure Gerrard hasn't been one of the stand out players of the tournament tbf.

[Royal Rother]

I'm fully behind Royal Rother keeping this up.

He's slagged England as one of the two worst teams in the tournament - they won the group

He's slagged of Gerrard - he's been England's standout and one of the players of the tournament

He's slagged off Rooney - he scored the winner in his first game back

Keep up the good work

I probably will.

Even you must admit it's been a bit dull and uninspiring watching England though?

I don't mind it so much if Windsor or Reading win things without playing an expansive style of footie but I require something a bit more from the cream of the nation.

Still, I'm delighted at Hodgson's achievements. Top man. A pragmatist is probably just what this mob needed, even if it doesn't make them interesting or attractive to watch.

[Schards#2]

I'm fully behind Royal Rother keeping this up.

He's slagged England as one of the two worst teams in the tournament - they won the group

He's slagged of Gerrard - he's been England's standout and one of the players of the tournament

He's slagged off Rooney - he scored the winner in his first game back

Keep up the good work

I probably will.

Even you must admit it's been a bit dull and uninspiring watching England though?

I don't mind it so much if Windsor or Reading win things without playing an expansive style of footie but I require something a bit more from the cream of the nation.

Still, I'm delighted at Hodgson's achievements. Top man. A pragmatist is probably just what this mob needed, even if it doesn't make them interesting or attractive to watch.

It's not the most attractive style to watch but you are being unrealistic if you think the current cream of the nation is capable of beating top international sides by playing expansive and open football, they simply aren't good enough. As such, i'm more than happy for them to play to their strengths whereby, they will prove as difficult to beat as any other team in the tournament and, thus, give themselves an outside chance.

[Tredder]

As long as you've not backed Germany Schards, i'm also good with that.

[Royal Rother]

I probably will.

Even you must admit it's been a bit dull and uninspiring watching England though?

I don't mind it so much if Windsor or Reading win things without playing an expansive style of footie but I require something a bit more from the cream of the nation.

Still, I'm delighted at Hodgson's achievements. Top man. A pragmatist is probably just what this mob needed, even if it doesn't make them interesting or attractive to watch.

It's not the most attractive style to watch but you are being unrealistic if you think the current cream of the nation is capable of beating top international sides by playing expansive and open football, they simply aren't good enough. As such, i'm more than happy for them to play to their strengths whereby, they will prove as difficult to beat as any other team in the tournament and, thus, give themselves an outside chance.

I pretty much agree with that actually - I should have said "but I require something a bit more from the cream of the nation to get me particularly excited"

[Whore Jackie]

I’m with ya Rother, to some degree.

I can understand why people would want the player with the promise to be world class involved as much as possible, but my fear like yours, is that we will be out by the time he gets up to speed.

What alarms me about Rooney is his first touch was pub. Rusty is one thing, but he’s not been out injured – it looked like he hadn’t touched a f/cking football in three months.

Which is what leads me to believe it has little to do with match fitness and more to do with pressure. We know he’s a great player (perhaps importantly, in the right team/set-up) but Man U fans worship him, they don’t scrutinise him – he has a pressure free stage.

This stage is watched by an audience with mixed opinions or even opinions waiting to be made. Like many of our ‘Golden Generation’ I think the difference between club idol-like-can-do-no-wrong-worship and national prove-your-hype-scrutiny is too great for him to handle.

I hope he proves me wrong, but each poor touch and bad pass to me reeks of a stressed player trying too hard to meet expectation

Thought Seedorf's comments on Robin van Persie were quite illuminating. Essentially he gets too worked up before the really big games. He looked into his eyes prior to the Milan v Arsenal game and knew he wasn't relaxed enough to dominate the game.

Don't watch enough CL football to know how Rooney performs on that stage, but there's certainly an argument that, up to now in his career, he's a much better player for United in the league than for England in finals. That all said, you could have levelled that against a number of England Internationals and thus far Roy has done a tremendous job in elevating Gerrard and Terry to something approaching their club standards.

[Hoop Blah]

Yes, but Hodgson gets paid huge sums of money for making his decisions whereas I just post on here for a bit of fun.

Does that mean others can't discuss or critique your views then?

You seem to have gone a bit frimmers over this one RR.

What an odd question / inference. (I guess it was the use of the word "fun" that sent you into a bit of a tizzy.)

I am in a minority here and merely defending / supporting my views without dodging any / all points made as the aforementioned Frimmers delights in doing. No attempt made to belittle or insult anybody else's views about Rooney's performance on Monday that I can recall, (doubtless you'll do a thorough search to prove me wrong )just a fairly robust expression of .

Critique / discuss away. It's what we're here for.

That and a bit of fun, yes?

No?

It was just your 'well he gets paid to make the decisions' comment that just seemed totally out of synch with the conversation about their merits. Bit of a change in tack from debating their merits and how well they played to just run away from the conversation which just looked a bit frimmer'esque from over here.

Fun? On here?

[Hoop Blah]

I’m with ya Rother, to some degree.

I can understand why people would want the player with the promise to be world class involved as much as possible, but my fear like yours, is that we will be out by the time he gets up to speed.

What alarms me about Rooney is his first touch was pub. Rusty is one thing, but he’s not been out injured – it looked like he hadn’t touched a f/cking football in three months.

Which is what leads me to believe it has little to do with match fitness and more to do with pressure. We know he’s a great player (perhaps importantly, in the right team/set-up) but Man U fans worship him, they don’t scrutinise him – he has a pressure free stage.

This stage is watched by an audience with mixed opinions or even opinions waiting to be made. Like many of our ‘Golden Generation’ I think the difference between club idol-like-can-do-no-wrong-worship and national prove-your-hype-scrutiny is too great for him to handle.

I hope he proves me wrong, but each poor touch and bad pass to me reeks of a stressed player trying too hard to meet expectation

Amen to every word of that.

I still think you're both focussing on the negatives of his performance. Yeah he didn't nail every touch and gave the ball away a few too many times (mainly in the first 5 and last 5/10 minutes of his performance) but show me a player who hasn't in the tournament. Who's been the best forward of the tournament so far? Gomez? Mandzukic? Ibrahimavic? Benzema? Ronaldo? van Percie? Torres? Have any of them failed to keep the ball or get it under perfect control during their games? I've even seen Iniesta fail to control the ball and give it away at times!

There were many examples of Rooney getting and giving the ball in ways none of our other players would, examples of him linking up and creating things (that little flick round the defender to put, I think, Young away in the box), passes he made that were typical Rooney and why he was straight back in the team.

I think it's coming back to unrealistic expectations of what players can do, and I thought RR for one would have more realistic pre-conceptions.

[Hoop Blah]

On the topic of being expansive, how many international teams really play that way?

Even Spain, everyones favourite team, aren't that gung-ho as such. When they won the World Cup they only won 1game by more than 1 goal, a 2-0 win against the mightly Honduras. The Netherlands weren't much different and even with their attacking talents were quite a defensive team to make up for the lesser defensive talent they had.

Not doubting that England are more defensive or less attacking, we obviously are, but again, I think the expectation for us to be much different is a little naive. I'd love us to be attacking teams flat out with wingers and fullbacks bombing on and tearing teams apart, but that just isn't the game anymore.