Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Ian Royal]

Take a look at all the teams who have gone into administration, or have suffered financially as a result of overspending in recent years.

Then come back and tell me where they are now.

Not only that, but with the possible exception of Portsmouth and their tainted Cup win, none of their supporters have had it as good as us over the last 10 years.

West Ham?

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Take a look at all the teams who have gone into administration, or have suffered financially as a result of overspending in recent years.

Then come back and tell me where they are now.

Not only that, but with the possible exception of Portsmouth and their tainted Cup win, none of their supporters have had it as good as us over the last 10 years.

West Ham?

Their troubles are only just starting....

take a look at this list. You wouldnt swap places with any of them,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)#cite_note-28

[SpaceCruiser]

With Leicester...getting a cut price new stadium

Didn't they actually get it for free as they never paid the builders?

[Ian Royal]

Take a look at all the teams who have gone into administration, or have suffered financially as a result of overspending in recent years.

Then come back and tell me where they are now.

Not only that, but with the possible exception of Portsmouth and their tainted Cup win, none of their supporters have had it as good as us over the last 10 years.

West Ham?

Their troubles are only just starting....

take a look at this list. You wouldnt swap places with any of them,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_(British_football)#cite_note-28

Yeah, West Ham have avoided it so far haven't they. Be interesting to see how Leicester, Leeds and Pompey get on given their recent problems. Whether they recover fully and get back safely into the PL or whether they fall apart again.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Update on Cardiff's debts : http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-football/2011/07/04/bluebirds-act-on-debts-to-take-club-forward-91466-28987233/

The major Cardiff City debt which remains unresolved is to the firm Langston, who issued £24m in loan notes to the club when Sam Hammam was the Bluebirds’ owner.
......
PMG have converted £2.85m of their debt into shares. They were originally owed £9m and that will be reduced to around £4m with the balance to be repayable by May 13, 2013.

In other news, Stephen Vaughan (the crook who ruined Barrow and Chester City) is said to be the mystery figure behind a proposed takeover of Stockport.

[Terminal Boardom]

Update on Cardiff's debts : http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-football/2011/07/04/bluebirds-act-on-debts-to-take-club-forward-91466-28987233/

The major Cardiff City debt which remains unresolved is to the firm Langston, who issued £24m in loan notes to the club when Sam Hammam was the Bluebirds’ owner.
......
PMG have converted £2.85m of their debt into shares. They were originally owed £9m and that will be reduced to around £4m with the balance to be repayable by May 13, 2013.

In other news, Stephen Vaughan (the crook who ruined Barrow and Chester City) is said to be the mystery figure behind a proposed takeover of Stockport.

This is just wrong. How on earth can people like this be allowed to continue in this vein?

[Svlad Cjelli]

Quite! This will be a good test of the new regulations - Vaughan was banned from being a director of any company for 11 years in 2009.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

With Leicester...getting a cut price new stadium

Didn't they actually get it for free as they never paid the builders?

Same rate in the £ as the other creditors, I believe.

Edit: This from Wiki

The £37 million cost of the new stadium, combined with relegation from the Premiership, the collapse of the English transfer market due to the introduction of the transfer window and the collapse of ITV Digital meant that Leicester went into receivership shortly after moving to the new stadium. Birse Construction who had built the stadium therefore lost a large part of their fee, and they withdrew from any further football ground construction. The main losers from this were, ironically, Leicester's local rivals Coventry City, who were in negotiations with Birse to build their own new stadium.

As part of the deal which brought the club out of receivership, the ownership of the stadium reverted to American company Teachers Insurance, who had supplied £28 million via a bond scheme towards the stadium's construction, with the club taking a long-term lease while the bond repayments were made.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

Take a look at all the teams who have gone into administration, or have suffered financially as a result of overspending in recent years.

Then come back and tell me where they are now.

Not only that, but with the possible exception of Portsmouth and their tainted Cup win, none of their supporters have had it as good as us over the last 10 years.

I see where you are coming from Tony, but that's not the issue.The fact that they are even competing in the same competition, on the same terms and with the same prizes up for grabs - that's my real beef. Wonder whether all of the small suppliers and local business that they shafted can say the same?

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Take a look at all the teams who have gone into administration, or have suffered financially as a result of overspending in recent years.

Then come back and tell me where they are now.

Not only that, but with the possible exception of Portsmouth and their tainted Cup win, none of their supporters have had it as good as us over the last 10 years.

I see where you are coming from Tony, but that's not the issue.The fact that they are even competing in the same competition, on the same terms and with the same prizes up for grabs - that's my real beef. Wonder whether all of the small suppliers and local business that they shafted can say the same?

Yep, completely agree. Its just a total misconception that teams who are cheating financially are getting away with it. A vast majority of them are actually just punishing themselves and most will take a long time to recover, if at all. Leicester and Portsmouth have ripped everyone off, but there are 25+ clubs who haven't and are probably getting their just deserts. That said, the sooner the Football League follows the Conference route on club finances, the better.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Yep, completely agree. Its just a total misconception that teams who are cheating financially are getting away with it. A vast majority of them are actually just punishing themselves and most will take a long time to recover, if at all. That said, the sooner the Football League follows the Conference route on club finances, the better.

Agreed on both points - but on the second point the problem for the FL is needing somewhere to send problem teams down to - they can't just land them on the conference because the conference has stricter financial regulations than they do.

[Ian Royal]

Oblivion Dirk.

[Svlad Cjelli]

But what if - as usually happens - the owner who caused the problem and asset-stripped the club has run and left someone else holding the baby?

The rouge owner won't care, and this won't be a disincentive to him - what is needed is an early warning system and pro-active rules to stop this happening, rather than rules which punish (often someone else) after all the damage has been done.

And for someone like Hamilton at Wrexham, who wants the ground and sees the football club as an inconvenience thats in the way of his property development, this would be an absolute godsend. Things would be so much easier for such people if they had an easy way like this to get rid of football clubs.

[roadrunner]

Yep, completely agree. Its just a total misconception that teams who are cheating financially are getting away with it. A vast majority of them are actually just punishing themselves and most will take a long time to recover, if at all. That said, the sooner the Football League follows the Conference route on club finances, the better.

Agreed on both points - but on the second point the problem for the FL is needing somewhere to send problem teams down to - they can't just land them on the conference because the conference has stricter financial regulations than they do.

But that's the clubs fault. If the Conference then punish them further then that should act as an even bigger deterant. Too many clubs are getting away with it. Your Leicester's for example, promoted straight away back to the PL, all that parachute money again, the stadium paid for. Maybe not all clubs are getting away with it but many are.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Yep, completely agree. Its just a total misconception that teams who are cheating financially are getting away with it. A vast majority of them are actually just punishing themselves and most will take a long time to recover, if at all. That said, the sooner the Football League follows the Conference route on club finances, the better.

Agreed on both points - but on the second point the problem for the FL is needing somewhere to send problem teams down to - they can't just land them on the conference because the conference has stricter financial regulations than they do.

But that's the clubs fault. If the Conference then punish them further then that should act as an even bigger deterrent. Too many clubs are getting away with it. Your Leicester's for example, promoted straight away back to the PL, all that parachute money again, the stadium paid for. Maybe not all clubs are getting away with it but many are.

See my last post - nothing acts as a deterrent, because owners know they can move on before the shit hits the fan - and then you're punishing the wrong person.

[Mr Angry]

Then the only punishment that WOULD prevent things from getting out of hand should be more on the individuals who created the problem, rather than the clubs themselves; yes the clubs can get a points deduction/relegation, but the Risdales, Hamman's, Hamilton's and Mandaric's of this World should face massive fines, seizure of assets and no involvement in any club, in any sport at an ownership/director/consultant level.

And if that means shysters like that think twice before getting into owning a football club, then good.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Agreed - but legally at the moment a football clubs is just another company, so is subject to company law just like all the others.

We need a set of laws defining the specifivity of sport, as many other countries do.

[Svlad Cjelli]

On the subject of rogue owners :

Peter Ridsdale will complete a £1 buyout of Plymouth but the deal will mean the club loses ownership of its ground and property assets

[Mr Angry]

As mentioned before, that guy is, in footballing terms, one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse; when he turns up, your team dies.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Yep - and that's one of teh dilemmas that supporters face. Someone like him - or no-one?