The Championship - A Farce?

[Daniella]

Certainly seem to be able to spend money in the Championship against the current cllimate..
They have a very decent fanbase and a bigger stadium than us.

Anyone would think you were just making it all up as you went along.

yet they are only getting crowds of 20,000 when they are on the verge of the prem? 7,000 or so short. Nothing to write home about, hull have more potential.

[Hoop Blah]

Certainly seem to be able to spend money in the Championship against the current cllimate..
They have a very decent fanbase and a bigger stadium than us.

Anyone would think you were just making it all up as you went along.

yet they are only getting crowds of 20,000 when they are on the verge of the prem? 7,000 or so short. Nothing to write home about, hull have more potential.

They're very similar to us then, although I think they'll show a bit more intent in the transfer market as and when they come up. They have a more traditiional support though and I'm sure they'll fill their ground every week if they get promoted just like we did.

The arrogance shown towards the Championship and the teams at the top of the table in this thread just shows how quickly you can swept away by the hype and fuss that follows the Premiership.

As for the earlier arguement about our players and/or the team ethix being the reason we got promoted I think it's pretty obvious that it was a mix of the two. There were plenty of players about in the Championship that were as good if not better than ours BUT we were a well balanced and developed team that got on a role. That coupled with the talents of our players and management contributed to a bit of a freak season. If we went back and did it all over again, I don't think those same players in the same team would end up with the same end product.

[Stranded]

Caught some of the Stoke-Palace game last night - it seems that absolutely nobody wants to get promoted this season.

HB - I don't think there is an arrogance toward the teams coming up. That divison has been very skewed this year. West Brom at the moment can get the most points but will only hit 85 if they win all 6. A total that would not have been good enough for promotion in the last 11 seasons. Given how hard it is for teams gaining more points that to stay up, even when spending shedloads (Sunderland got 94pts yet still spent big to compete), it's a pretty fair assessment that the teams who do come up will struggle.

Esp the play-off winners who could go up having got less than 70pts, which has never been done - in fact no team has even qualified for the play-offs with less than 71 points.

[papereyes]

Caught some of the Stoke-Palace game last night - it seems that absolutely nobody wants to get promoted this season.

HB - I don't think there is an arrogance toward the teams coming up. That divison has been very skewed this year. West Brom at the moment can get the most points but will only hit 85 if they win all 6. A total that would not have been good enough for promotion in the last 11 seasons. Given how hard it is for teams gaining more points that to stay up, even when spending shedloads (Sunderland got 94pts yet still spent big to compete), it's a pretty fair assessment that the teams who do come up will struggle.

Esp the play-off winners who could go up having got less than 70pts, which has never been done - in fact no team has even qualified for the play-offs with less than 71 points.

But that only takes into account the strength of the league relative to the league itself. For example, if all of the teams in the league were quite strong, you could still have a similar league table and when the three teams get promoted, the gap between them and the Premiership might be small. However, you could also get a very similar league table with all the teams being quite weak (and little difference between those teams).

The goal difference might give you some clue as to the teams but its not all that clear.

The results of the games between Championship and Premiership in the cups might give some clue as well, once you factor in weakened sides.

I watched the first half of West Brom and Portsmouth and for all the clever passing and movement of the Baggies, they didn't have much pace. No-one who could create something out of nothing. That is one thing we circumvented in our promotion season and our first season by playing down the wings so much.

[Stranded]

Perhaps, but one off cup games are hard to get a gauge on esp if the Premiership team are fielding a number of fringe players as seems to be the vogue at the moment.

I think the fact the Bristol City are top gives an indication of a slightly poorer division given they were only 2nd in League one and didn't do much the way of rebuilding/strengthening after promotion.

[Hoop Blah]

What I meant by arrogance was how all these poor little championship teams like City and Stoke will struggle to do anything if they come up.

They're just the same as the likes of us, Fulham, 'Boro, Charlton, Wigan, Bolton, Pompey, Derby, Blackburn etc etc who have, over the years managed to come up with varying degrees of success.

I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying these clubs have teams that could step up and compete without some serious strengthening, but it's significant how Reading fans are now repeating all the stuff that the likes of Charlton spouted to us this time two years ago.

The gap maybe widening between the top 8 and the bottom 6 plus the Championship, but it's still possible for these clubs to come up and compete.

[readingbedding]

Would like to go to Ashton Gate next year for a Reading away Premiership match.

[Alan Partridge]

Derby County the worst team in the history of the 'Premiership' got 84 points last year. None of the teams around the top are on course to even get that many.

I would say West Brom are the best of a bad bunch and with a few defensive signings would have a smidgeon of a chance next year, the rest without a Sudnerland esque £50 or 60million worth of money ploughed into the team are buried before it even kicks off next season.

On the positive side it will mean Reading are safe for another year, it's not meant to sound patronising and Hoop Blah makes valid points in his post, it's not the teams 'size' coming up or anything to do with that, it's just the league and all these teams aren't very good. 70 points and top of the table? That would probably JUST get you a playoff spot in most seasons.

Sheff Wed finished 9th with 71 and Saints 6th with 75 last season.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Agreed , AP.

A quick trawl through Soccerbase shows the following points totals over the previouos 10 seasons for the Championship Winners and Runners-Up and the Playoff Spread:

Pos 07 06 05 04 03 02 01 00 99 98 Ave
1st 88 106 94 94 98 99 101 91 105 94 97
2nd 86 90 87 86 92 89 91 89 87 91 88.8
3rd 84 81 85 79 80 86 87 87 86 90 84.5
6th 75 75 73 73 74 75 74 76 76 74 74.5

The current table is:

1 Bristol City 42 0 70
2 Stoke 42 11 69
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3 Hull 41 18 68
4 Watford 41 12 68
5 West Brom 40 27 67
6 Crystal Palace 42 8 62
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7 Wolverhampton 40 2 61
8 Ipswich 41 7 60
9 Charlton 42 6 60
10 Plymouth 42 8 59
11 Burnley 42 -2 58


It's already the case that the Championship will be won by a team with only enough points to get into the playoffs in the Previous ten season (West Brom can get a maximum of 85 points) and I can only see the level of points for each "milestone" getting lower and lower as each team takes there turn at bottling it when it looks like they might kick on a win the league.

[Stranded]

What I meant by arrogance was how all these poor little championship teams like City and Stoke will struggle to do anything if they come up.

They're just the same as the likes of us, Fulham, 'Boro, Charlton, Wigan, Bolton, Pompey, Derby, Blackburn etc etc who have, over the years managed to come up with varying degrees of success.

I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying these clubs have teams that could step up and compete without some serious strengthening, but it's significant how Reading fans are now repeating all the stuff that the likes of Charlton spouted to us this time two years ago.

The gap maybe widening between the top 8 and the bottom 6 plus the Championship, but it's still possible for these clubs to come up and compete.

Valid points you make. Differnce I feel is that of the teams you mention there, when promoted they came up with much more points then any side is likely to get (or around that ie Derby 84 last year and play-offs).

It's obviously not an exact science but I can envisage there being very short odds on the sides coming up going down again as a group.

[Hoop Blah]

I can see the logic behing what you're all saying, that the less points mean that the sides aren't probably as good, but I'm just not sure I agree that it necessarily follows really.

[Stranded]

I know, hence why I said it's not an exact science.

It's pretty much accepted that teams that are promoted often struggle to bridge the gap and this often teams who are much better than their peers from the lower divison.

Now to me there are one of two options, the top half of the Championship has a number of teams who have a chance of competing (which I'm not sure about as it often turns out to just be one, if any) or two there are a number of sides that are much of a muchness and unless significant squad improvements are made are likely to be in trouble from early on.

[Silver Fox]

They have a more traditiional support though and I'm sure they'll fill their ground every week if they get promoted just like we did.

Why isn't that traditional support filling the ground now?

[Hoop Blah]

They have a more traditiional support though and I'm sure they'll fill their ground every week if they get promoted just like we did.

Why isn't that traditional support filling the ground now?

No idea

By traditional I meant that their support is made up more of traditional footballer supporters, ie working class males. They have a more vocal and intimidating atmosphere than we do. Some people seem to think that is a good thing and will help a side create a fortress at home...a bit like it helped Sheff Utd I guess!

[papereyes]

Derby County the worst team in the history of the 'Premiership' got 84 points last year. None of the teams around the top are on course to even get that many.

I'm still not sure how the points total shows anything except for the variance of the strength of the league.

They're just the same as the likes of us, Fulham, 'Boro, Charlton, Wigan, Bolton, Pompey, Derby, Blackburn etc etc who have, over the years managed to come up with varying degrees of success.

IMO, the ones in bold are markedly different cases to the others.

[Hoop Blah]

Yes, they've had financial backing from a 'sugar-daddy' if thats what you mean but in terms of where they've come from and the so called potential of the clubs I'd say they're all pretty much of a much ness.

[papereyes]

Yes, they've had financial backing from a 'sugar-daddy' if thats what you mean but in terms of where they've come from and the so called potential of the clubs I'd say they're all pretty much of a much ness.

Maybe. For example, Portsmouth have spent a shit load - a shit load getting promoted, a shit load staying up and a shit load (£25 million over the summer on players like Utaka, Nugent etc) getting to push for a UEFA cup spot. Yet, they're still seen as a club dealing in pennies and coppers. They've only had this success since Mandaric and then the Gaydamaks.

[Hoop Blah]

Yes, they've had financial backing from a 'sugar-daddy' if thats what you mean but in terms of where they've come from and the so called potential of the clubs I'd say they're all pretty much of a much ness.

Maybe. For example, Portsmouth have spent a shit load - a shit load getting promoted, a shit load staying up and a shit load (£25 million over the summer on players like Utaka, Nugent etc) getting to push for a UEFA cup spot. Yet, they're still seen as a club dealing in pennies and coppers. They've only had this success since Mandaric and then the Gaydamaks.

Totally agree that they're not run on the shoestring a club of their 'size' should support. I'm the last person who's going to give undue credit to Pompey but the point I was probably failing to make was that in terms of size and potential they're all the same.

What's to say that if Stoke or City make it to the Premirship that they won't suddenly find some nice investor, or that they'll develop the team they've already got like we did.

[cmonurz]

What odds were Hull City to win the Championship?

[papereyes]

What odds were Hull City to win the Championship?

Hull are the team coming into form at the right time.