The Non - League thread

[tmesis]

Alton 1 Farnham 1 in the combined counties league - nearly 600 for this derby game.

Not a fantastic game, but the big talking point was the referee disallowing an 88th penalty for Alton that would have put the home side 2-1 up. He disallowed it for encroachment, which is picky, but fair enough, but rather than ordering a retake, he awarded a free-kick to Farnham.

According to one bemused Alton player, the ref told him that because only one player had encroached, it was a free kick, not a retake.

A check of the current FA rules makes no mention of this 'directive'.



He was also one of those refs that after a ball was deflected behind for a corner, and both teams take up positions for the corner unquestioningly, he decides that all the players are wrong, and it's really a goal kick.

[Four Of Clubs]

Results of games played yesterday:

Saturday 21st January

FA Vase 4th
Brixham 2-0 Raynes Park Vale

NAT
Bromley 2-2 Aldershot Town
NATN
Banbury United PP Darlington @ c. 14:30 ish – rumours abounding that it was the Darlo manager who cried off – lots of injuries in the squad apparently – needless to say officials and home club getting all of the grief from the travelling fans and their own social media

NATS
Concord Rangers 1-2 Oxford City
Eastbourne Borough 3-1 Hungerford Town
Slough Town 4-3 Dulwich Hamlet – att 980 – ‘Rebels’ 2 up at H/T and 4-1 up going into the last 15’ – hung on to win’

SLP-C
Rushall Olympic 2-1 Kings Langley
SLP-S
Hanwell Town 5-1 North Leigh

IL1-SC
South Park 2-4 Thatcham Town
Sutton Common Rovers 0-5 Basingstoke Town ...and Basingstoke go top! 5 wins in 6 scoring 22 goals

CCL-PN
Burnham 2-2 North Greenford United
Edgware & Kingsbury 0-1 Holyport
Wokingham & Emmbrook PP Oxhey Jets - another very late call-off c. 14:30 - by officials
CCL-PS
Alton 1-1 Farnham Town -official att 590 a ground record apparently
Jersey Bulls 3-0 Cobham att 577
CCL-1
CB Hounslow United 2-3 Cove
FC Deportivo Galicia 3-1 Berks County
Rayners Lane {EIGHT} 8-0 Hillingdon Borough

HELL- P
Hereford Lads Club 2-1 Wantage Town
Worcester Raiders A-A Royal Wootton Bassett Town Abandoned late in the game – Fog
HELL-1
Long Crendon 5-1 Cirencester Town Dev

[Royals and Racers]

Maidenhead Utd v Southend tomorrow OFF already.
Banbury v Coalville Trophy tie put back 24 hours to Wednesday 25th Jan.

[Loafer]

YouTube team SE Dons onto the fa national cup quarter finals. To play either Frimley green (sunday) or last year losing finalists Highgate albion (who are very VERY good)

The bull fc got knocked out due to boxer Liam Smith missing a penalty 24 hours after he beat Chris eubank jr

[paultheroyal]

Alton 1 Farnham 1 in the combined counties league - nearly 600 for this derby game.

Not a fantastic game, but the big talking point was the referee disallowing an 88th penalty for Alton that would have put the home side 2-1 up. He disallowed it for encroachment, which is picky, but fair enough, but rather than ordering a retake, he awarded a free-kick to Farnham.

According to one bemused Alton player, the ref told him that because only one player had encroached, it was a free kick, not a retake.

A check of the current FA rules makes no mention of this 'directive'.



He was also one of those refs that after a ball was deflected behind for a corner, and both teams take up positions for the corner unquestioningly, he decides that all the players are wrong, and it's really a goal kick.

If as described, the referee got this wrong.

If attacking team encroach and the penalty is scored its a retaken penalty. If attacking team encroach and penalty missed its a in-direct free kick to the defending team.

[Stranded]

Alton 1 Farnham 1 in the combined counties league - nearly 600 for this derby game.

Not a fantastic game, but the big talking point was the referee disallowing an 88th penalty for Alton that would have put the home side 2-1 up. He disallowed it for encroachment, which is picky, but fair enough, but rather than ordering a retake, he awarded a free-kick to Farnham.

According to one bemused Alton player, the ref told him that because only one player had encroached, it was a free kick, not a retake.

A check of the current FA rules makes no mention of this 'directive'.



He was also one of those refs that after a ball was deflected behind for a corner, and both teams take up positions for the corner unquestioningly, he decides that all the players are wrong, and it's really a goal kick.

If as described, the referee got this wrong.

If attacking team encroach and the penalty is scored its a retaken penalty. If attacking team encroach and penalty missed its a in-direct free kick to the defending team.

Unfortunately, sounds like a situation where the ref made a mistake and instead of holding his hands up, doubled down and tried to talk himself out of it knowing he has control. He'll know he cocked up.

[Royal Rother]

Alton 1 Farnham 1 in the combined counties league - nearly 600 for this derby game.

Not a fantastic game, but the big talking point was the referee disallowing an 88th penalty for Alton

[Sutekh]

Alton 1 Farnham 1 in the combined counties league - nearly 600 for this derby game.

Not a fantastic game, but the big talking point was the referee disallowing an 88th penalty for Alton that would have put the home side 2-1 up. He disallowed it for encroachment, which is picky, but fair enough, but rather than ordering a retake, he awarded a free-kick to Farnham.

According to one bemused Alton player, the ref told him that because only one player had encroached, it was a free kick, not a retake.

A check of the current FA rules makes no mention of this 'directive'.



He was also one of those refs that after a ball was deflected behind for a corner, and both teams take up positions for the corner unquestioningly, he decides that all the players are wrong, and it's really a goal kick.

If as described, the referee got this wrong.

If attacking team encroach and the penalty is scored its a retaken penalty. If attacking team encroach and penalty missed its a in-direct free kick to the defending team.

Unfortunately, sounds like a situation where the ref made a mistake and instead of holding his hands up, doubled down and tried to talk himself out of it knowing he has control. He'll know he cocked up.

How are refs assessed at that level? I presume there isn’t an independent assessor at each game (as you might get in the PL and FL) in non-league so presume much of it must come from club management feedback (which must be fun to read after some games).

[paultheroyal]

If as described, the referee got this wrong.

If attacking team encroach and the penalty is scored its a retaken penalty. If attacking team encroach and penalty missed its a in-direct free kick to the defending team.

Unfortunately, sounds like a situation where the ref made a mistake and instead of holding his hands up, doubled down and tried to talk himself out of it knowing he has control. He'll know he cocked up.

How are refs assessed at that level? I presume there isn’t an independent assessor at each game (as you might get in the PL and FL) in non-league so presume much of it must come from club management feedback (which must be fun to read after some games).

An ex referee who has performed at same level or higher would be assessing. I would imagine at a game like this with crowd expected then an assessor would be provided. They are not at all games but certainly for up and coming referee's and higher leagues ie isthmian south etc then they are pretty much at most games. Again, this sort of game i would of expected it to be officiated by an experienced referee or a future star.

Referee's are promoted via assessor marks but predominantly club marks awarded by the club secretary - this is totally wrong in my opinion and a number of good referee's don't make it because of the club mark system.

[Sutekh]

Unfortunately, sounds like a situation where the ref made a mistake and instead of holding his hands up, doubled down and tried to talk himself out of it knowing he has control. He'll know he cocked up.

How are refs assessed at that level? I presume there isn’t an independent assessor at each game (as you might get in the PL and FL) in non-league so presume much of it must come from club management feedback (which must be fun to read after some games).

An ex referee who has performed at same level or higher would be assessing. I would imagine at a game like this with crowd expected then an assessor would be provided. They are not at all games but certainly for up and coming referee's and higher leagues ie isthmian south etc then they are pretty much at most games. Again, this sort of game i would of expected it to be officiated by an experienced referee or a future star.

Referee's are promoted via assessor marks but predominantly club marks awarded by the club secretary - this is totally wrong in my opinion and a number of good referee's don't make it because of the club mark system.

Thanks for that, can quite understand how the club mark system puts some off though would presume a club secretary would, in most cases, defer their “marks” to the club manager a few days later (not that that would necessarily make things any better of course).

[paultheroyal]

How are refs assessed at that level? I presume there isn’t an independent assessor at each game (as you might get in the PL and FL) in non-league so presume much of it must come from club management feedback (which must be fun to read after some games).

An ex referee who has performed at same level or higher would be assessing. I would imagine at a game like this with crowd expected then an assessor would be provided. They are not at all games but certainly for up and coming referee's and higher leagues ie isthmian south etc then they are pretty much at most games. Again, this sort of game i would of expected it to be officiated by an experienced referee or a future star.

Referee's are promoted via assessor marks but predominantly club marks awarded by the club secretary - this is totally wrong in my opinion and a number of good referee's don't make it because of the club mark system.

Thanks for that, can quite understand how the club mark system puts some off though would presume a club secretary would, in most cases, defer their “marks” to the club manager a few days later (not that that would necessarily make things any better of course).

What is wrong with it and where i fell foul in early stages is you could have a blinding game, in all matter of refereeing skills and then give a contentious decision in the last minute affecting outcome of game, even if you were right. Club secretaries and managers would see it very differently and score you unfairly which could be a factor in promotion or demotion.

[Royal Rother]

Refs are marked at all levels aren't they? Even Sunday League park football.

[tmesis]

An ex referee who has performed at same level or higher would be assessing. I would imagine at a game like this with crowd expected then an assessor would be provided. They are not at all games but certainly for up and coming referee's and higher leagues ie isthmian south etc then they are pretty much at most games. Again, this sort of game i would of expected it to be officiated by an experienced referee or a future star.

Referee's are promoted via assessor marks but predominantly club marks awarded by the club secretary - this is totally wrong in my opinion and a number of good referee's don't make it because of the club mark system.

Thanks for that, can quite understand how the club mark system puts some off though would presume a club secretary would, in most cases, defer their “marks” to the club manager a few days later (not that that would necessarily make things any better of course).

What is wrong with it and where i fell foul in early stages is you could have a blinding game, in all matter of refereeing skills and then give a contentious decision in the last minute affecting outcome of game, even if you were right. Club secretaries and managers would see it very differently and score you unfairly which could be a factor in promotion or demotion.

Is there a culture of linesmen not arguing with referees?

I ask, because in incidents like this, surely at least one of the linesmen would be thinking the ref has got it wrong.

It was sort of like the ref thought that if only the attacking side encroached, then it's a free kick (if the ball goes in the net) but I find it hard to believe all the officials would come to the same incorrect understanding.

[paultheroyal]

Thanks for that, can quite understand how the club mark system puts some off though would presume a club secretary would, in most cases, defer their “marks” to the club manager a few days later (not that that would necessarily make things any better of course).

What is wrong with it and where i fell foul in early stages is you could have a blinding game, in all matter of refereeing skills and then give a contentious decision in the last minute affecting outcome of game, even if you were right. Club secretaries and managers would see it very differently and score you unfairly which could be a factor in promotion or demotion.

Is there a culture of linesmen not arguing with referees?

I ask, because in incidents like this, surely at least one of the linesmen would be thinking the ref has got it wrong.

It was sort of like the ref thought that if only the attacking side encroached, then it's a free kick (if the ball goes in the net) but I find it hard to believe all the officials would come to the same incorrect understanding.

In all my years of refereeing and through all my levels I never had an argument or witnessed one to be fair. Either as assistant or referee. We remain loyal throughout. We might have a conversation after the game and might say “you got that wrong” and actually in a game you might say that and between you a call is made.

[Royal Rother]

When I've run the line on Sunday league games I have argued with the ref.

Trouble is I suppose they are used to all linos being partisan so will sometimes override an offside flag. I am 100% fair and honest (sometimes to the distress of my son's team!) so if I flag for offside I expect it to be "honoured" and it pisses me off immensely when it is not. Doesn't happen often because I guess they can tell who is decent (up with the play, quick and clear in flagging, NOT the norm in park footie) and whose decisions they can generally trust.

[paultheroyal]

Refs are marked at all levels aren't they? Even Sunday League park football.

Yeah - club marks - even youth level - u7's up if appointed.

[paultheroyal]

When I've run the line on Sunday league games I have argued with the ref.

Trouble is I suppose they are used to all linos being partisan so will sometimes override an offside flag. I am 100% fair and honest (sometimes to the distress of my son's team!) so if I flag for offside I expect it to be "honoured" and it pisses me off immensely when it is not. Doesn't happen often because I guess they can tell who is decent (up with the play, quick and clear in flagging, NOT the norm in park footie) and whose decisions they can generally trust.

Should never be the need to fall out with a club linesman, providing the club linesman does his job and does not get involved in discussion. Ball in and out of play and offsides.

I would always go with the decision of club linesman unless i witness blatant cheating. Its also a brilliant cop out for the referee because you can just say to players "blame him, he gave it".

[Dirk Gently]

What is wrong with it and where i fell foul in early stages is you could have a blinding game, in all matter of refereeing skills and then give a contentious decision in the last minute affecting outcome of game, even if you were right. Club secretaries and managers would see it very differently and score you unfairly which could be a factor in promotion or demotion.

Is there a culture of linesmen not arguing with referees?

I ask, because in incidents like this, surely at least one of the linesmen would be thinking the ref has got it wrong.

It was sort of like the ref thought that if only the attacking side encroached, then it's a free kick (if the ball goes in the net) but I find it hard to believe all the officials would come to the same incorrect understanding.

In all my years of refereeing and through all my levels I never had an argument or witnessed one to be fair. Either as assistant or referee. We remain loyal throughout. We might have a conversation after the game and might say “you got that wrong” and actually in a game you might say that and between you a call is made.

Presumably also referees grade assistants in some way - or at least have a say in their advancement? So there's a clear incentive for assistants - who presumably want to be promoted to referees - not to p*ss them off.

[Royal Rother]

When I've run the line on Sunday league games I have argued with the ref.

Trouble is I suppose they are used to all linos being partisan so will sometimes override an offside flag. I am 100% fair and honest (sometimes to the distress of my son's team!) so if I flag for offside I expect it to be "honoured" and it pisses me off immensely when it is not. Doesn't happen often because I guess they can tell who is decent (up with the play, quick and clear in flagging, NOT the norm in park footie) and whose decisions they can generally trust.

Should never be the need to fall out with a club linesman, providing the club linesman does his job and does not get involved in discussion. Ball in and out of play and offsides.

I would always go with the decision of club linesman unless i witness blatant cheating. Its also a brilliant cop out for the referee because you can just say to players "blame him, he gave it".

Trouble is, when it's a player / sub running the line (as is often the case) they tend to flag everything offide when one of their mates shouts for it.

One of my favourite bits of running the line is when somebody has come back from a clearly offside position to receive the ball (and then appears to be a couple of yards onside).... players and their mates on the sideline always get massively agitated when I raise the flag! I've never been threatened myself but it's not really a job for the faint-hearted.

I once ran the line in an U16s game for the ref who was in that England 1966 World Cup squad TV advert 20+ years ago and called someone offside. A couple of Mums gave me massive grief. I politely explained to them why he was offside but they carried on and on, so the ref told them to leave the pitchside or he wouldn't restart the game. He was as good as his word and they eventually sloped off.

That was good fun! (He was a bit of a Little Hitler, but a decent enough ref.) Also saw him abandon a game after taking dog's abuse from some guys (Dads of players). He didn't handle the situation at all well as it happens and I could see (not condone) why it escalated - he didn't have the best manner shall we say. We had to escort him to his car as these guys were following him with menace.

[Royals and Racers]

Lot of postponements tonight. One match that will be on is the Oxfordshire Senior cup QF Oxford City v Oxford Utd KO 7.45pm - i am diverting from Bracknell to attend.