RUMOUR - Danny Graham?

[SydenhamRoyal]

The invasion wasn't really a bad thing at all. The bad things were the lack of clearly defined mission parametres and an exit strategy. And trying to convince people it wasn't about Bush snr's unfinished regime change business and that there were WMDs that could threaten the UK rather than just battlefield WMDs.

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

oxf*rd dove

whilst meant as an insult, I will take it as a compliment

[Victor Meldrew]

The invasion wasn't really a bad thing at all. The bad things were the lack of clearly defined mission parametres and an exit strategy. And trying to convince people it wasn't about Bush snr's unfinished regime change business and that there were WMDs that could threaten the UK rather than just battlefield WMDs.

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

How many more lives would have been lost if Hussain had carried on with his killing regime?
The fact is that nobody knows but we do know that he had a clear half-time lead before the West got involved.

[Hampshire Royal]

The invasion wasn't really a bad thing at all. The bad things were the lack of clearly defined mission parametres and an exit strategy. And trying to convince people it wasn't about Bush snr's unfinished regime change business and that there were WMDs that could threaten the UK rather than just battlefield WMDs.

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

Intelligence wins war, not armies. The intelligence services said that Saddam had WMDs. Not to hit us or the US, but to hit Israel and maybe Cyprus. With this view, we had to invade Iraq, if only to remove a very dangerous leader. Hindsight is a very precise science and with hindsight we later discovered that there were no WMDs. The deaths that occurred in Iraq were mainly Iraqis killing other Iraqis.

[SydenhamRoyal]

The invasion wasn't really a bad thing at all. The bad things were the lack of clearly defined mission parametres and an exit strategy. And trying to convince people it wasn't about Bush snr's unfinished regime change business and that there were WMDs that could threaten the UK rather than just battlefield WMDs.

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

Intelligence wins war, not armies. The intelligence services said that Saddam had WMDs. Not to hit us or the US, but to hit Israel and maybe Cyprus. With this view, we had to invade Iraq, if only to remove a very dangerous leader. Hindsight is a very precise science and with hindsight we later discovered that there were no WMDs. The deaths that occurred in Iraq were mainly Iraqis killing other Iraqis.

So what we had clearly wasn't intelligence then. Perhaps it was something I'd prefer to call dumb. A couple of deliberately made up reports that there were weapons, and the ignoring of and rubbishing of the official weapons inspectors from the UN, who said there were no WMDs. Moreover, the Government, and specifically Blair, lurched from one rationale to another for going to war, including at one point that Saddam was harbouring Al Qaeda.

I guess though that some will say that it was only fcking Iraqis, only fcking Muslims, only fcking Arabs, so of course it doesn't fcking matter that a million of them are dead.

[melonhead]

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

oxf*rd dove

whilst meant as an insult, I will take it as a compliment

bah!
*shakes fist

[melonhead]

The invasion wasn't really a bad thing at all. The bad things were the lack of clearly defined mission parametres and an exit strategy. And trying to convince people it wasn't about Bush snr's unfinished regime change business and that there were WMDs that could threaten the UK rather than just battlefield WMDs.

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

Intelligence wins war, not armies. The intelligence services said that Saddam had WMDs. Not to hit us or the US, but to hit Israel and maybe Cyprus. With this view, we had to invade Iraq, if only to remove a very dangerous leader. Hindsight is a very precise science and with hindsight we later discovered that there were no WMDs. The deaths that occurred in Iraq were mainly Iraqis killing other Iraqis.

tbf:
saddam himself had said he had them.
saddam had used them on his own people.
and they bought ammounts of chemical weapons, then destroyed less than they'd bought.

[Millsy]

Tbf:

That's all bullshit.

Tbf:

I see no distinction between British soldiers fighting the illegal war in Iraq and nazi soldiers. Except that British soldiers chose to join a an army with a history of f*cking up the world so knew they'd be likely to be asked to do so again whereas nazi soldiers were forced into it under fear of death.

Invading Iraq was illegal every involvements we have in the Middle East is a war crime. But the oil corporations and zionists are happy so let's try to defend it as much as we can eh?

[Millsy]

You mean if the Government hadn't lied about the rationale, objectives, capabilities and planning, then it would have been ok to launch an invasion that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives?

Intelligence wins war, not armies. The intelligence services said that Saddam had WMDs. Not to hit us or the US, but to hit Israel and maybe Cyprus. With this view, we had to invade Iraq, if only to remove a very dangerous leader. Hindsight is a very precise science and with hindsight we later discovered that there were no WMDs. The deaths that occurred in Iraq were mainly Iraqis killing other Iraqis.

So what we had clearly wasn't intelligence then. Perhaps it was something I'd prefer to call dumb. A couple of deliberately made up reports that there were weapons, and the ignoring of and rubbishing of the official weapons inspectors from the UN, who said there were no WMDs. Moreover, the Government, and specifically Blair, lurched from one rationale to another for going to war, including at one point that Saddam was harbouring Al Qaeda.

I guess though that some will say that it was only fcking Iraqis, only fcking Muslims, only fcking Arabs, so of course it doesn't fcking matter that a million of them are dead.

Spot on Syd, and it's time I left this convo before losing my rag.

As a Parthian shot: There was nothing dumb about our intel. It was an obvious lie concocted to convince taxpayers that funding a war crime was ok, fuelled by Zionists and oil corporations and god knows what else. Blair should be tried as a war criminal. The reason he isn't is the same reason that Hitler wouldn't have been had he won WW2.

Mark my words the same ideologies trying to convince us taxpayers to fund an illegal war in Iraq will manage to convince us to do the same in Syria and wherever else. The chemical weapons attempt failed. Something else will be found. After all, when our oil is under Middle Eastern land, it is our duty to piss around with the lives of millions of those who live there, giving them chemical weapons, changing regimes etc etc etc so we can get it back.

They're only brown people.

[SpaghettiHoop]

Has Danny Graham signed yet?

[Loyal royal 247]

We don't want him he has an awful goal scoring record. Anyway apparently Forrest want him.

[sandman]

Has Danny Graham signed yet?

What for, the Army?

[From Despair To Where?]

We know Saddam had WMD's because we checked all the invoices we sent him in the 80's when he was fighting that naughty Ayatollah in iran.

[genome]

He has 4 goals in 48 games. No thanks.

[Hampshire Royal]

Tbf:

That's all bullshit.

Tbf:

I see no distinction between British soldiers fighting the illegal war in Iraq and nazi soldiers. Except that British soldiers chose to join a an army with a history of f*cking up the world so knew they'd be likely to be asked to do so again whereas nazi soldiers were forced into it under fear of death.

Invading Iraq was illegal every involvements we have in the Middle East is a war crime. But the oil corporations and zionists are happy so let's try to defend it as much as we can eh?

An interesting opinion but, in my opinion, it's wrong. The majority of German soldiers were not Nazis; the SS consisted largely of foreign soldiers. They were well trained and idolised by the German population. There are enough examples of individuals refusing to carry out the atrocious acts they were ordered to do, to suggest that this oft-repeated idea was not entirely true.

Your suggestion that we paid for Middle-East oil and made a number of the countries there unbelievably rich simply because we wanted to control them is, quite honestly, laughable. After the war, when a lot of the displaced and persecuted Jews of Europe went to what they thought of as there homeland, the British army were sent to Palestine to protect the Arabs living there. There were many British soldiers killed trying to do this.

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

genone wrote: He has 4 goals in 48 games. No thanks.

Had a great couple of seasons at Watford scoring 41 goals in 98 appearances.

[Ian Royal]

Oh dear, oh dear.

[genome]

Tbf:

That's all bullshit.

Tbf:

I see no distinction between British soldiers fighting the illegal war in Iraq and nazi soldiers. Except that British soldiers chose to join a an army with a history of f*cking up the world so knew they'd be likely to be asked to do so again whereas nazi soldiers were forced into it under fear of death.

Invading Iraq was illegal every involvements we have in the Middle East is a war crime. But the oil corporations and zionists are happy so let's try to defend it as much as we can eh?

An interesting opinion but, in my opinion, it's wrong. The majority of German soldiers were not Nazis; the SS consisted largely of foreign soldiers. They were well trained and idolised by the German population. There are enough examples of individuals refusing to carry out the atrocious acts they were ordered to do, to suggest that this oft-repeated idea was not entirely true.

Your suggestion that we paid for Middle-East oil and made a number of the countries there unbelievably rich simply because we wanted to control them is, quite honestly, laughable. After the war, when a lot of the displaced and persecuted Jews of Europe went to what they thought of as there homeland, the British army were sent to Palestine to protect the Arabs living there. There were many British soldiers killed trying to do this.

Yeah but, can he play as a link up striker?

[Mr Angry]

Intelligence wins war, not armies. The intelligence services said that Saddam had WMDs. Not to hit us or the US, but to hit Israel and maybe Cyprus. With this view, we had to invade Iraq, if only to remove a very dangerous leader. [/b][/size]Hindsight is a very precise science and with hindsight we later discovered that there were no WMDs. The deaths that occurred in Iraq were mainly Iraqis killing other Iraqis.

Article 2(4) of the UN Charter states: “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”

By deciding to effect regime change when no credible threat to the UK or the US existed, Blair and Bush acted illegally under the UN Charter.

And Danny Graham knew this, which is why we should never sign him (and not because he couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo).

[savage 4 england]

Heard a rumour that he could be joining on loan. Wickham is staying put..

[Tommio]

Heard a rumour that he could be joining on loan. Wickham is staying put..

No thanks, he was awful against us last season home to boro