Do we really have billionaire owners?

[maffff]

Two part answer this:

1) Billionaire owners? Yes, we do.

2) So why aren't we spending in abundance?

a) Parachute payments ended this season. We were in the final tranche of those relegated getting them for four years. That's a lot of income off the books as a starter for ten.

b) Beyond that we have FFP compliance

FFP Came into effect in 2015. Allowable loss over 3years - £13m per season or £5m if owner does not inject money.

2015/16 15m loss
2016/17 4.5m profit
2017/18 not yet available
2018/19 current season

So, last year we could have lost £28.5m and stayed within ffp (but been hamstrung this year having to make another profit or neutral outlay to spend). We clearly didn't make a loss that big. We have some wiggle room this year. Hence I assume that is what Ron meant by money available for the right players.

The main issue is we spent quite big last season, so now parachute payments have ended and given after this season the profit disappears from the account things get tight.

We need to keep costs sensible to give us a margin the next two years, with under £13m a year average needed - hopefully Ron will communicate on those additional revenue streams soon he spoke about a while back.

However, being sensible means we're unlikely to find ourselves in a situation where we'll face an embargo, up to 19/20 at the earliest anyway - nothing suggests we've been irresponsible, in that regard thus far.

You also have to remember that they've injected money elsewhere, for instance the injected £60m into the club in the first year for the training ground.

So it's either we go with careful future planning or the shit or bust approach which have stung others. If by some miracle we did get promoted I'd expect we'll really see what our owners bring to the fore then.

They've shown signs that they're happy to invest - but without jeopardising the future of the club.

[maffff]

^ Alledgedly, Sandro Weiser (who he?) was on £15k pw.

Don't believe football manager.

[paddy20]

Having started this post I now feel fully hoisted by my own petard!

[maffff]

Having started this post I now feel fully hoisted by my own petard!

The more you ask the more you know.

You also asked about getting money out of China. We're in a privileged position here compared to other clubs.

Yongge is not very visible for Beijing Renhe himself (but his son Dai Bin is) BUT he's VERY influential at league level. The issues with Chinese investment in football now relate to owners proving that their investments are beneficial to Chinese football.

For us

1) we have a duel-citizen owner (Xiu Li is British as well as Chinese) which limits the ability to block money transfers.
2) our owner is in the right circles in football and Government. Not an obscure mouthy 'businessman' with doubtful credentials, a la Xiu. He has credibility and respect built up over years of being involved in football.
3) Our owners have both a Chinese and an English club (as well as Belgian), so there can be parallels drawn to Renhe and how the other clubs help them and vice versa. Will be interesting to see if these links get drawn more explicitly in the future, scouting, coaching, academy links etc....

[WoodleyRoyal]

Having started this post I now feel fully hoisted by my own petard!

The more you ask the more you know.

You also asked about getting money out of China. We're in a privileged position here compared to other clubs.

Yongge is not very visible for Beijing Renhe himself (but his son Dai Bin is) BUT he's VERY influential at league level. The issues with Chinese investment in football now relate to owners proving that their investments are beneficial to Chinese football.

For us

1) we have a duel-citizen owner (Xiu Li is British as well as Chinese) which limits the ability to block money transfers.
2) our owner is in the right circles in football and Government. Not an obscure mouthy 'businessman' with doubtful credentials, a la Xiu. He has credibility and respect built up over years of being involved in football.
3) Our owners have both a Chinese and an English club (as well as Belgian), so there can be parallels drawn to Renhe and how the other clubs help them and vice versa. Will be interesting to see if these links get drawn more explicitly in the future, scouting, coaching, academy links etc....

This just begs the question, if they are so influential and rich why Reading...

[Hound]

why not? close to London at half the cost

[sandman]

Word from a friend who works in the same office as Gourlay, and may go to explain why its all a bit of a mess.

Clement signs some of the players he wants.
Gourlay signs some of the players he wants.
The owners' sign some of the players they want.

Can't be usual to have 3 different sets of stakeholders making decisions on signings.


Also, he said that the Moore asked for the same money as Baldock for his new deal. Apparently, this was originally given the green light, but Dai Yongge went mental when he heard about it. Started shouting at his sister in Chinese. lol.

Why would the CEO be sharing an office?

[Snowflake Royal]

Two part answer this:

1) Billionaire owners? Yes, we do.

2) So why aren't we spending in abundance?

a) Parachute payments ended this season. We were in the final tranche of those relegated getting them for four years. That's a lot of income off the books as a starter for ten.

b) Beyond that we have FFP compliance

FFP Came into effect in 2015. Allowable loss over 3years - £13m per season or £5m if owner does not inject money.

2015/16 15m loss
2016/17 4.5m profit
2017/18 not yet available
2018/19 current season

So, last year we could have lost £28.5m and stayed within ffp (but been hamstrung this year having to make another profit or neutral outlay to spend). We clearly didn't make a loss that big. We have some wiggle room this year. Hence I assume that is what Ron meant by money available for the right players.

The main issue is we spent quite big last season, so now parachute payments have ended and given after this season the profit disappears from the account things get tight.

We need to keep costs sensible to give us a margin the next two years, with under £13m a year average needed - hopefully Ron will communicate on those additional revenue streams soon he spoke about a while back.

However, being sensible means we're unlikely to find ourselves in a situation where we'll face an embargo, up to 19/20 at the earliest anyway - nothing suggests we've been irresponsible, in that regard thus far.

You also have to remember that they've injected money elsewhere, for instance the injected £60m into the club in the first year for the training ground.

So it's either we go with careful future planning or the shit or bust approach which have stung others. If by some miracle we did get promoted I'd expect we'll really see what our owners bring to the fore then.

They've shown signs that they're happy to invest - but without jeopardising the future of the club.

If it was four years they finished the season before last. Which given our spending last year could easily leave us with a stupendous loss in that one season.

7th
19th
17th
3rd
20th

[tmesis]

This might be a completely radical thought, but could it be possible that the club's owners are very wealthy, but just don't want to use huge amounts of that wealth bankrolling the team.

[Paul Cowin]

perhaps we have money to spend but the right player didn't turn up that we considered value for money. we all want a 15 to 20 goal a season striker, but they ain't cheap, probably looking at 10 to 15 mill. and would a striker of that caliber want to come to a club that avoided the drop by the skin of its teeth. Moore has publicly said the owners are extremely ambitious too.

Forest paid 8m for Lewis Grabban

[WoodleyRoyal]

perhaps we have money to spend but the right player didn't turn up that we considered value for money. we all want a 15 to 20 goal a season striker, but they ain't cheap, probably looking at 10 to 15 mill. and would a striker of that caliber want to come to a club that avoided the drop by the skin of its teeth. Moore has publicly said the owners are extremely ambitious too.

Forest paid 8m for Lewis Grabban

pocket change...

[Nameless]

Word from a friend who works in the same office as Gourlay, and may go to explain why its all a bit of a mess.

Clement signs some of the players he wants.
Gourlay signs some of the players he wants.
The owners' sign some of the players they want.

Can't be usual to have 3 different sets of stakeholders making decisions on signings.


Also, he said that the Moore asked for the same money as Baldock for his new deal. Apparently, this was originally given the green light, but Dai Yongge went mental when he heard about it. Started shouting at his sister in Chinese. lol.

Why would the CEO be sharing an office?

I have occasionally been in the club offices at the Madejsi. From memory Nigel Howe did share an office so quite possible Gourlay does too. However the sort of person he’d be sharing with is not the sort who would blab to some random person about internal transfer dealings/politics.
Plus it would seem highly unlikely that multiple people are just signing players willynilly. For one Clement has no money so it would be impossible for him to sign players unless Gourlay and the owners agreed. It’s also hard to think of names that might be players the owners signed without consultation. Aluko is the one possibility. Clement obviously has players in his squad he didn’t sign and doesn’t rate but then don’t all managers.

[Snowflake Royal]

perhaps we have money to spend but the right player didn't turn up that we considered value for money. we all want a 15 to 20 goal a season striker, but they ain't cheap, probably looking at 10 to 15 mill. and would a striker of that caliber want to come to a club that avoided the drop by the skin of its teeth. Moore has publicly said the owners are extremely ambitious too.

Forest paid 8m for Lewis Grabban

pocket change...

It's somewhere between about a quarter to half of our income for the year.

[sandman]

Word from a friend who works in the same office as Gourlay, and may go to explain why its all a bit of a mess.

Clement signs some of the players he wants.
Gourlay signs some of the players he wants.
The owners' sign some of the players they want.

Can't be usual to have 3 different sets of stakeholders making decisions on signings.


Also, he said that the Moore asked for the same money as Baldock for his new deal. Apparently, this was originally given the green light, but Dai Yongge went mental when he heard about it. Started shouting at his sister in Chinese. lol.

Why would the CEO be sharing an office?

I have occasionally been in the club offices at the Madejsi. From memory Nigel Howe did share an office so quite possible Gourlay does too. However the sort of person he’d be sharing with is not the sort who would blab to some random person about internal transfer dealings/politics.
Plus it would seem highly unlikely that multiple people are just signing players willynilly. For one Clement has no money so it would be impossible for him to sign players unless Gourlay and the owners agreed. It’s also hard to think of names that might be players the owners signed without consultation. Aluko is the one possibility. Clement obviously has players in his squad he didn’t sign and doesn’t rate but then don’t all managers.

Interesting.

Can't picture those in power at the club now being the type to share an office like I could see the people during the Sir John era doing.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

Word from a friend who works in the same office as Gourlay, and may go to explain why its all a bit of a mess.

Clement signs some of the players he wants.
Gourlay signs some of the players he wants.
The owners' sign some of the players they want.

Can't be usual to have 3 different sets of stakeholders making decisions on signings.


Also, he said that the Moore asked for the same money as Baldock for his new deal. Apparently, this was originally given the green light, but Dai Yongge went mental when he heard about it. Started shouting at his sister in Chinese. lol.

Why would the CEO be sharing an office?

Maybe with his PA/EA?

[Snowflake Royal]

Really? Open plan offices are ten a penny these days.
.

[multisync1830]

Word from a friend who works in the same office as Gourlay, and may go to explain why its all a bit of a mess.

Clement signs some of the players he wants.
Gourlay signs some of the players he wants.
The owners' sign some of the players they want.

Can't be usual to have 3 different sets of stakeholders making decisions on signings.


Also, he said that the Moore asked for the same money as Baldock for his new deal. Apparently, this was originally given the green light, but Dai Yongge went mental when he heard about it. Started shouting at his sister in Chinese. lol.

Why would the CEO be sharing an office?

I have occasionally been in the club offices at the Madejsi. From memory Nigel Howe did share an office so quite possible Gourlay does too. However the sort of person he’d be sharing with is not the sort who would blab to some random person about internal transfer dealings/politics.
Plus it would seem highly unlikely that multiple people are just signing players willynilly. For one Clement has no money so it would be impossible for him to sign players unless Gourlay and the owners agreed. It’s also hard to think of names that might be players the owners signed without consultation. Aluko is the one possibility. Clement obviously has players in his squad he didn’t sign and doesn’t rate but then don’t all managers.

your memory fails you in this respect.in the media suite building, NH had a separate office next to SJM's. Neither were particularly impressive or in any way showy.
Their respective pa's shared a larger office adjoining both.
HTH

[Maneki Neko]

why not? close to London at half the cost

we were also a semi regular prospect of possible promotion at the point of sale.
last year will have come as a massive shock to them imo- they ploughed in more money than we have ever spent in our history, and we nearly went down, I can see why that may make them a little hesitant, even disregarding FFp etc

[Maneki Neko]

This might be a completely radical thought, but could it be possible that the club's owners are very wealthy, but just don't want to use huge amounts of that wealth bankrolling the team.

agreed - billionaires don't stay billionaires by pouring money down drains

[Winston Biscuit]

This might be a completely radical thought, but could it be possible that the club's owners are very wealthy, but just don't want to use huge amounts of that wealth bankrolling the team.

agreed - billionaires don't stay billionaires by pouring money down drains

If they set up a chute to their McDuck style cash vault underground then they could literally pour money down the drain and stay billionaires