Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

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Mr Angry
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Mr Angry » 21 Jun 2011 19:51

Snowball
Mr Angry
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Last two seasons only
Games played for either a goal or assist. Note

1.3 Gylfi
1.5 Hunt
1.6 Long
2.1 Kebe
2.3 HRK
3.5 McAnuff
3.7 Howard
6.7 Karacan
8.3 Elwood
9.7 Tabb


What point are you trying to make?

Karacan, Leigertwood and Tabb are defensive midfielders, therefore the fact that their goals/assists to games ratio is worse than Howards, who is deemed an attacking midfielder, and much worse than our strikers, is simply stating the obvious.


Why does there have to be "a point"?



Which just about sums up 90% of your posts.

Posting stats for the sake of it.

:roll:

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Wycombe Royal
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Wycombe Royal » 21 Jun 2011 20:18

Snowball yet he's scored zero goals this year and had just 7 assists in 21 starts plus 6 sub appearances. 1 in 3. Not exactly earth-shattering, is it?

Seeing as you like extrapolating data, if you extrapolate that to a full season it would be over 14 assists, which this season would have put him second in the Championship assists table. But I take the point about him not scoring.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Snowball » 21 Jun 2011 22:18

42 (12) appearances? 54 out of the 55 games we played. Hmmm...

Not really, mate. I doubt any of these played every game, either
and as you noticed, factoring in goals and he doesn't look all that valuable

Assists + Goals 2010-11

35 = 16 Assists + 19 Goals = Adel Taarabt QPR
35 = 14 Assists + 21 Goals = Grant Holt Norwich
35 = 10 Assists + 25 Goals = Shane Long Reading 48 (1) (Plus a fair few pens won for Harte to score?)

33 = 10 Assists + 23 Goals = Danny Graham Watford

28 = 09 Assists + 19 Goals = Luciano Becchio Leeds
26 = 08 Assists + 18 Goals = Jay Bothroyd Cardiff
25 = 12 Assists + 13 Goals = Lewis McGugan Forest

21 = 10 Assists + 11 Goals = Craig Bellamy Cardiff
20 = 09 Assists + 11 Goals = Chris Eagles Burnley

17 = 07 Assists + 10 Goals = Noel Hunt, Reading (2/3 of a season) Played 23 (14)
17 = 13 Assists + 04 Goals = Don Cowie Watford
16 = 07 Assists + 09 Goals = Jimmy Kebe, Reading . . . Played 38 (3)

14 = 14 Assists + 00 Goals = Brian Howard ("PLAYED 42 (12)" extrapolated to playing all games)
13 = 09 Assists + 04 Goals = Jobi McAnuff Reading Played 44 (0)


Assists Only... can't get their goals downloaded

11 Albert Adomah Bristol
10 James Coppinger Doncaster ; Peter Whittingham Cardiff

9 Wesley Hoolahan Norwich; 9 Chris Burke Cardiff ; David Fox; Norwich; Nathan Dyer Swansea
9 James Henry Millwall ; Keith Treacy Preston

8 Richard Wellens Leicester; John Oster Doncaster; Julio Arca Middlesbrough; Paul Green Derby; Robert Koren Hull

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Snowball » 21 Jun 2011 22:23

Mr Angry
Snowball
Last two seasons only
Games played for either a goal or assist. Note

1.3 Gylfi
1.5 Hunt
1.6 Long
2.1 Kebe
2.3 HRK
3.5 McAnuff
3.7 Howard
6.7 Karacan
8.3 Elwood
9.7 Tabb


Why does there have to be "a point"?



Which just about sums up 90% of your posts.

Posting stats for the sake of it.

:roll:



Now pay attention, Mr. A. Sorry some of these words have more than one syllable.

Winchester Royal said:
And anyway it isn't just about scoring goals, it is also about creating them and I think his stats in that department stack pretty well compared to the other central midfielders we have


So I posted the comparisons for WR and anyone with a brain to see the comparison for themselves.


Or we could just go back to:

He's gash!
No he ain't
Yes he is.

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Wycombe Royal
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Wycombe Royal » 22 Jun 2011 08:55

Snowball 42 (12) appearances? 54 out of the 55 games we played. Hmmm...

You might notice that I said "Championship assists table" not "All Competitions assist table". So that would be 42 games plus however many minutes for the subs appearances probably wouldn't be far off 46 matches (in a total minutes played sense. I do remember you do lengthy anaysis on the subs appearances and minutes played for Shane Long).

And in your list can you just it to show just the midfielders as there is no point comparing him to the goalscoring AND assists exploits of strikers.

I reckon he would probably be in the top 20 midfielders in the division in terms of goals and assists IF he had played a full season (this was how you used to present Shane Longs stats to us). Now as there are 23 other teams in this division I think that it pretty good.


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urz13
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by urz13 » 22 Jun 2011 09:07

Snowball 42 (12) appearances? 54 out of the 55 games we played. Hmmm...

Not really, mate. I doubt any of these played every game, either
and as you noticed, factoring in goals and he doesn't look all that valuable

Assists + Goals 2010-11

35 = 16 Assists + 19 Goals = Adel Taarabt QPR
35 = 14 Assists + 21 Goals = Grant Holt Norwich
35 = 10 Assists + 25 Goals = Shane Long Reading 48 (1) (Plus a fair few pens won for Harte to score?)

33 = 10 Assists + 23 Goals = Danny Graham Watford

28 = 09 Assists + 19 Goals = Luciano Becchio Leeds
26 = 08 Assists + 18 Goals = Jay Bothroyd Cardiff

these stats made me feel a whole lot more positive about our team, we seem to be the best in terns of the goals+assists ratio :)


25 = 12 Assists + 13 Goals = Lewis McGugan Forest

21 = 10 Assists + 11 Goals = Craig Bellamy Cardiff
20 = 09 Assists + 11 Goals = Chris Eagles Burnley

17 = 07 Assists + 10 Goals = Noel Hunt, Reading (2/3 of a season) Played 23 (14)
17 = 13 Assists + 04 Goals = Don Cowie Watford
16 = 07 Assists + 09 Goals = Jimmy Kebe, Reading . . . Played 38 (3)

14 = 14 Assists + 00 Goals = Brian Howard ("PLAYED 42 (12)" extrapolated to playing all games)
13 = 09 Assists + 04 Goals = Jobi McAnuff Reading Played 44 (0)


Assists Only... can't get their goals downloaded

11 Albert Adomah Bristol
10 James Coppinger Doncaster ; Peter Whittingham Cardiff

9 Wesley Hoolahan Norwich; 9 Chris Burke Cardiff ; David Fox; Norwich; Nathan Dyer Swansea
9 James Henry Millwall ; Keith Treacy Preston

8 Richard Wellens Leicester; John Oster Doncaster; Julio Arca Middlesbrough; Paul Green Derby; Robert Koren Hull[/quote]

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urz13
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by urz13 » 22 Jun 2011 09:08

Sorry that post kind of failed :(

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Extended-Phenotype » 22 Jun 2011 11:53

Not quite sure how goals and assists summarise the complex involvement of the midfielder.

Having watched him play, I'd say he has underperformed. But then our midfield setup was not ideal for him, and he might have found better form had he been partnered with Legs, or played behind a lone striker.

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Svlad Cjelli
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Svlad Cjelli » 22 Jun 2011 11:54

An awful lot of Harte's goals from just outside the area came from Howard drawing fouls there.


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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Snowball » 22 Jun 2011 11:57

Wycombe Royal
Snowball 42 (12) appearances? 54 out of the 55 games we played. Hmmm...

You might notice that I said "Championship assists table" not "All Competitions assist table". So that would be 42 games plus however many minutes for the subs appearances probably wouldn't be far off 46 matches (in a total minutes played sense. I do remember you do lengthy anaysis on the subs appearances and minutes played for Shane Long).



Trouble with that, Wyc, is that two of Howard's assists this season were in the CUP! And you can't double his starts and just take his minutes for sub appearances. For all I know his 5 league assists might have come while playing as a sub.

His LEAGUE record this season is 5 assists, no goals in 19 (5), about 1 assist every 4 games, 0r 11 a season

And in your list can you just it to show just the midfielders as there is no point comparing him to the goalscoring AND assists exploits of strikers.


I simply grabbed the top assisters list. Don't have time to decide who is a striker, a midfielder, an attacking midfielder, a winger who scores goals (like Sinclair)

However,, having taken the assist list, showing strikers IS (IMO) relevant. Long (for example) got his 10 assists (very decent) and showed he wasn't "just a goal-scorer". When you add in the two penalties he won for himself (but missed) and the pens won for Harte to score, his contribution is massive. I'm not, however, putting the two "against each other" but merely showing that one player (Long) was actively involved in about 40 goals, (38 league) and 10 assists, (all league)(whereas even if Howard HAD played 42 league games, he'd've been on for 10 assists, no goals.

For me, no need for Howard to be scoring more than say 3/4/5 IF he is getting more assists, but his goal rate is very poor for RFC, his assist-rate ordinary and he isn't known for hard-running or getting in loads of tackles. When he dived in at QPR he gave away a pen.

I reckon he would probably be in the top 20 midfielders in the division in terms of goals and assists IF he had played a full season (this was how you used to present Shane Longs stats to us). Now as there are 23 other teams in this division I think that it pretty good.


Much as I hate to isolate and criticize individual players I feel Howard doesn't do enough work off the ball, doesn't get enough tackles in, doesn't get enough league assists and obviously doesn't get enough goals. I FAR prefer Tabb who DOES put in a shift, and I believe there are many AMs who could do a better job and be doing work when not on the ball.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Snowball » 22 Jun 2011 12:03

Extended-Phenotype Not quite sure how goals and assists summarise the complex involvement of the midfielder.



They don't "summarise" but they give SOME indication. If you remove goals (and he should score SOME) and assists, how then do you say how well he's playing? Possession alone is pretty meaningless if the final product is not an assist or a goal or a brilliant pass which creates a chance. Howard is certainly not renowned for getting in loads of tackles or brilliant running onto through balls. His JOB is to create goals, and he creates some, but not IMO enough.

Obviously, a midfielder could be world-class, feed the winger with a defence-splitting ball ten times every game, resulting in 3 goals from the winger or his crosses, and never get an assist or goal himself. BUT WE WOULD SEE THAT. We would see that "yet again" Howard has fed Kebe...

What we see instead is Howard not doing enough to close down in MF (eg at QPR) NOT stopping the pass and then diving in and giving away the pen.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Extended-Phenotype » 22 Jun 2011 12:22

Tabb is, tact aside, a bit shit really.

He hasn’t really worked out as an AM, winger, DM or mascot.

Jay Tabb is that guy in the office you think is an alright bloke, but you have no idea what he does.


Snowball:

they give SOME indication.



Indication of what? You could be a fantastic midfielder and never score or assist in your entire career.

If you remove goals (and he should score SOME) and assists, how then do you say how well he's playing?


You watch the game.

His JOB is to create goals,


ONE of his jobs, yes. And ‘assists’ is a flawed indicator of that.

But I’m not actually defending the guy – as I said above; I think he’s underperformed – but I’ve reached that conclusion through observation, not a little number next to an rather immaterial Americanism.

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roadrunner
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by roadrunner » 22 Jun 2011 12:30

Extended-Phenotype Tabb is, tact aside, a bit shit really.

He hasn’t really worked out as an AM, winger, DM or mascot.

Jay Tabb is that guy in the office you think is an alright bloke, [i]but you have no idea what he does.


He hasn't had a decent enough run of games to establish himself, or prove his worth. Coventry obviously rated him making him their PoTS before we took him the following season.


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Ferris
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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Ferris » 22 Jun 2011 12:34

roadrunner
Extended-Phenotype Tabb is, tact aside, a bit shit really.

He hasn’t really worked out as an AM, winger, DM or mascot.

Jay Tabb is that guy in the office you think is an alright bloke, [i]but you have no idea what he does.


He hasn't had a decent enough run of games to establish himself, or prove his worth. Coventry obviously rated him making him their PoTS before we took him the following season.


He was probably our best player in the run-in to the 2009/10 season.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by roadrunner » 22 Jun 2011 12:42

Ferris
roadrunner
Extended-Phenotype Tabb is, tact aside, a bit shit really.

He hasn’t really worked out as an AM, winger, DM or mascot.

Jay Tabb is that guy in the office you think is an alright bloke, [i]but you have no idea what he does.


He hasn't had a decent enough run of games to establish himself, or prove his worth. Coventry obviously rated him making him their PoTS before we took him the following season.


He was probably our best player in the run-in to the 2009/10 season.


'greed. For a little bloke he really gets stuck in, has great energy and distributes the ball well. I just can't see where the poor bloke wil fit in with Legs and Karacan seemingly ahead of him.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Extended-Phenotype » 22 Jun 2011 12:45

He hasn't had a decent enough run of games to establish himself


Because he is, well, shit?

He was probably our best player in the run-in to the 2009/10 season.


Can’t recall that. But then it’s hard to remember any of his performances. I remember him shooting for goal and it going out for a throw, and him passing to me in the crowd on several occasions. Don’t think he meant to, though.


He is cute, though. But don't get him wet or he'll multiply.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Wycombe Royal » 22 Jun 2011 13:50

Snowball His LEAGUE record this season is 5 assists, no goals in 19 (5), about 1 assist every 4 games, 0r 11 a season.

Which in comparison to others in our team is a decent amount (for example Jobi got 7 in 40 appearances & Kebe got 7 in 34 appearances and both of those played in more attacking roles than Howard did in the majority of matches).

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Snowball » 22 Jun 2011 14:42

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Snowball His LEAGUE record this season is 5 assists, no goals in 19 (5), about 1 assist every 4 games, 0r 11 a season.

Which in comparison to others in our team is a decent amount (for example Jobi got 7 in 40 appearances & Kebe got 7 in 34 appearances and both of those played in more attacking roles than Howard did in the majority of matches).


Well I've been criticising McAnuff's numbers as not good enough.


Kebe, OTOH also scored 9 goals

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Ian Royal » 22 Jun 2011 16:48

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Snowball His LEAGUE record this season is 5 assists, no goals in 19 (5), about 1 assist every 4 games, 0r 11 a season.

Which in comparison to others in our team is a decent amount (for example Jobi got 7 in 40 appearances & Kebe got 7 in 34 appearances and both of those played in more attacking roles than Howard did in the majority of matches).


It's also worth mentioning he hasn't really played a consistent role in the team compared to Jobi / Kebe and has been far more in and out, with few long spells starting. That's bound to have an affect on performance.

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Re: Rumour - Howard to Huddersfield

by Extended-Phenotype » 22 Jun 2011 17:05

Aye – over half the time he’s been playing a deeper role, or sharing attacking duties.

Assists are a worthless stat, anyway. It would be interesting to know how often he played a significant part in the creation of a goal or chance. But then stats can’t really measure that.

Nor can they give you any genuine idea of an individual players performance.

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