Is Marcus Overrated

[Hoop Blah]

If you're being appriased set questions are generally measured against statistical data ( or in other words your performance) leading to a score.

Actim just applies the same methodolgy but in far more involved and complex way.

But then again if you apply no value to giving your team or receiving an appraisal of yourself, I guess you're not going to read to much into Actim.

Football statistics like actim don't measure a players ability. They give an indication of statictal events but you can't judge ability on them. Statistically a weak shot from 25 yards that is straight at the keeper is of the same value as a full stretch reflex save off a deflected pile driver. They also make no allowances for whether or not the keeper is making a save because of his poor or good position, inability to come for a cross, hold it, drop a ball at a players feet or read the game well to prevent a one-on-one by sweeping up behind his back four. Stats cannot take into account the reletive abilities of the two sides playing in the game.

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

In the every day work place there are some jobs in which measurable targets are suitable, eg a call centre or a sales environment. In many others it has to be a subjective appraisal as the work can't be defined or measured by SMART objectives etc.

Football is team game and players ability and performance can only really be meansured on a subjective basis. Thats why some managers are successful at picking players whereas others are useless.

[TFF]

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

I agree. You'd never see RFC spending £1,000s on statistical analysis tools like ProZone.


















Oh, wait...

[Hoop Blah]

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

I agree. You'd never see RFC spending £1,000s on statistical analysis tools like ProZone.

I knew that was coming!

ProZone is more about analysing the way a team operates and picking up on trends in their style of play. It will be able to show you how many times they pass the ball, the areas that have the most possession, even which players run or pass the most.

What it can't tell you which player has the greater ability or how they have performed in real terms.

"Analysis paralysis!"

[TFF]

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

I agree. You'd never see RFC spending £1,000s on statistical analysis tools like ProZone.

I knew that was coming!

ProZone is more about analysing the way a team operates and picking up on trends in their style of play. It will be able to show you how many times they pass the ball, the areas that have the most possession, even which players run or pass the most.

What it can't tell you which player has the greater ability or how they have performed in real terms.

"Analysis paralysis!"

I do agree - there was a wink in my post. Actim stats are about as usefull as Garth Crook's Team of the Week

[Ian Royal]

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

I agree. You'd never see RFC spending £1,000s on statistical analysis tools like ProZone.

I knew that was coming!

ProZone is more about analysing the way a team operates and picking up on trends in their style of play. It will be able to show you how many times they pass the ball, the areas that have the most possession, even which players run or pass the most.

What it can't tell you which player has the greater ability or how they have performed in real terms.

"Analysis paralysis!"

You could boil it down to:

Actim tells you an answer that has very little meaning.

Prozone provides you with statistical data with which to formulate your own answer.

Two very different things.

[Stranded]

Actim Stats current team of the season:

Mmmm

http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?c ... fTheSeason

[John Madejski's Wallet]

For 1-on-1, I honestly don't think there is a better keeper in the country. When was the last time you saw someone score with a proper 1-on-1 against Marcus? I can't really remember one from last season.

People used to say that with Schmeichael (sp?), it was the only time you fancied the keeper to save in a 1-on-1. I feel just as confident about Marcus. He has weird way of running-in which means he can lean at an angle but still run and it makes him a huge target.

I think the rest of his game is fairly standard for a prem keeper, so all-in-all a great keeper.

Stack hasn't impressed me once. very slow to react I find

[Tinrib]

If you're being appriased set questions are generally measured against statistical data ( or in other words your performance) leading to a score.

Actim just applies the same methodolgy but in far more involved and complex way.

But then again if you apply no value to giving your team or receiving an appraisal of yourself, I guess you're not going to read to much into Actim.

Football statistics like actim don't measure a players ability. They give an indication of statictal events but you can't judge ability on them. Statistically a weak shot from 25 yards that is straight at the keeper is of the same value as a full stretch reflex save off a deflected pile driver. They also make no allowances for whether or not the keeper is making a save because of his poor or good position, inability to come for a cross, hold it, drop a ball at a players feet or read the game well to prevent a one-on-one by sweeping up behind his back four. Stats cannot take into account the reletive abilities of the two sides playing in the game.

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

In the every day work place there are some jobs in which measurable targets are suitable, eg a call centre or a sales environment. In many others it has to be a subjective appraisal as the work can't be defined or measured by SMART objectives etc.

Football is team game and players ability and performance can only really be meansured on a subjective basis. Thats why some managers are successful at picking players whereas others are useless.

Thats a massive assumption into the analysis of how Actims stats are compiled is'nt it?

Or do you know better??!!

With all due respect to you, but I dont really think you have any insight into the process , analysis & work that goes into compiling those stats do you..?!

It is also strange that if what you say is true why RFC bears them any credence.

And for Stranded, see the Actim team of the Week

http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?c ... mOfTheWeek

[Hoop Blah]

Thats a massive assumption into the analysis of how Actims stats are compiled is'nt it?

Or do you know better??!!

No, it's an appreciation of how stats are compiled. They may have weighting or a difficulty rating factored into their model, but I seriously doubt it.

With all due respect to you, but I dont really think you have any insight into the process , analysis & work that goes into compiling those stats do you..?!

I've read the little information that they've made public on the way that the stats are compiled. I've also worked on many statistical projects and have an understanding of what constitutes a workable model.

It is also strange that if what you say is true why RFC bears them any credence.

In what way do RFC pay any credence to these stats? Do you think Coppell and Dillion decide who should play by their actim ratings!!!!!

I think you might've lost the plot!

[Dirk Gently]

With all due respect to you, but I dont really think you have any insight into the process , analysis & work that goes into compiling those stats do you..?!

It is also strange that if what you say is true why RFC bears them any credence.

And for Stranded, see the Actim team of the Week

http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?c ... mOfTheWeek

Are you sure you're not confusing Actim stats with the Prozone system, which provides extremely detailed stats and analysis of how a player actually perfroms, and is used by SC, KD, WD etc.

[Tinrib]

Thats a massive assumption into the analysis of how Actims stats are compiled is'nt it?

Or do you know better??!!

No, it's an appreciation of how stats are compiled. They may have weighting or a difficulty rating factored into their model, but I seriously doubt it.

So you dont know any better then.

With all due respect to you, but I dont really think you have any insight into the process , analysis & work that goes into compiling those stats do you..?!

I've read the little information that they've made public on the way that the stats are compiled. I've also worked on many statistical projects and have an understanding of what constitutes a workable model.

So you don't have any insight.

It is also strange that if what you say is true why RFC bears them any credence.

In what way do RFC pay any credence to these stats? Do you think Coppell and Dillion decide who should play by their actim ratings!!!!!

Who mentioned Dillon or Coppell?

RFC publish them in relation to RFC players on the OS, which you would think gives the stats credence.

I think you might've lost the plot!

Lost the plot LOL.

There is no coincidence is there that the best team ever in the history of the second tier of English football, who effectivley walked the division, just happened , by chance to have 7 of the top 10 players (from memory) included in the end of season Actim stats?? Does that make those stats wrong??!

I dont think so.

[Stranded]

Thats a massive assumption into the analysis of how Actims stats are compiled is'nt it?

Or do you know better??!!

No, it's an appreciation of how stats are compiled. They may have weighting or a difficulty rating factored into their model, but I seriously doubt it.

So you dont know any better then.

With all due respect to you, but I dont really think you have any insight into the process , analysis & work that goes into compiling those stats do you..?!

I've read the little information that they've made public on the way that the stats are compiled. I've also worked on many statistical projects and have an understanding of what constitutes a workable model.

So you don't have any insight.

It is also strange that if what you say is true why RFC bears them any credence.

In what way do RFC pay any credence to these stats? Do you think Coppell and Dillion decide who should play by their actim ratings!!!!!

Who mentioned Dillon or Coppell?

RFC publish them in relation to RFC players on the OS, which you would think gives the stats credence.

I think you might've lost the plot!

Lost the plot LOL.

There is no coincidence is there that the best team ever in the history of the second tier of English football, who effectivley walked the division, just happened , by chance to have 7 of the top 10 players (from memory) included in the end of season Actim stats?? Does that make those stats wrong??!

I dont think so.

Does it make them right? I don't think so.

Actim stats are a nice guide they are not definitive in any way shape or form and do not prove or disprove who is better than who.

Of course the football club will publish the stats on the website if our players are doing well in them because it looks good for the club and some people give them more weight than they actually have.

[Hoop Blah]

Lost the plot LOL.

There is no coincidence is there that the best team ever in the history of the second tier of English football, who effectivley walked the division, just happened , by chance to have 7 of the top 10 players (from memory) included in the end of season Actim stats?? Does that make those stats wrong??!

I dont think so.

The Actim stats reward players for being part of and contributing to a winning team. Therefore obviously our players were going to dominate the top of the stats. That doesn't mean they were better players. Any idea where Soel was in those standings? What about Ashton before he went to West Ham?

RFC publish the stats because for some reason they generate traffic on their website. Traffic generates money and RFC will do anything to bring in a little extra revenue.

[Woodcote Royal]

There are too many variables for statistics to give any meaningful insight into an individuals ability.

I agree. You'd never see RFC spending £1,000s on statistical analysis tools like ProZone.



Oh, wait...

And whenever I've heard Steve Coppell talk about Marcus he never fails to mention just how good his distribution is.....................where in Room 101 should this piece of "Analysis paralysis!" be placed, along with those pesky Actim stats that just happen to differ from "perceived" wisdom?

I thought Hahnemann was a 'keeper who has been a long term member of the US squad that has more depth in that department than our own.

Lets face it, Reading players are more likely to get a reliable rating (good or bad) if they regularly run up and down in front of the East Stand.......................Marcus at left back on Saturday, then we'll all know how good he really is.

[Tinrib]

Lost the plot LOL.

There is no coincidence is there that the best team ever in the history of the second tier of English football, who effectivley walked the division, just happened , by chance to have 7 of the top 10 players (from memory) included in the end of season Actim stats?? Does that make those stats wrong??!

I dont think so.

The Actim stats reward players for being part of and contributing to a winning team. Therefore obviously our players were going to dominate the top of the stats. That doesn't mean they were better players. Any idea where Soel was in those standings? What about Ashton before he went to West Ham?

RFC publish the stats because for some reason they generate traffic on their website. Traffic generates money and RFC will do anything to bring in a little extra revenue.

A team is made of players , not the other way around. Without individual performances the team will not reach its goals. Team results are borne from what each individual achieves. The Actim stats are for more weighted to individual criteria than collective. (lets face it they are actually marking each individual) & there is no Team Stat published.

And the good old RFC blah blah blah, trying to Brainwash the public line to spend more money by publishing meaningless rubbish. Thats altogether a narrow and convenient view, and a favourite of many on HNA.

Your sceptiscm is all for to see. Your arguement lacks any weight.

And lets face it, those over qualified statisticians who have designed the whole Actim process have no idea what they're talking about, do they !

LOL

[Hoop Blah]

A team is made of players , not the other way around. Without individual performances the team will not reach its goals. Team results are borne from what each individual achieves. The Actim stats are for more weighted to individual criteria than collective. (lets face it they are actually marking each individual) & there is no Team Stat published.

Stats don't show player ability. They show outcomes.

One of the factors in Actim is the team success, put Glenn Little in the Stoke team last year and his Actim rating would've much less than it was at Reading because his team was successful, partly due to his outstanding form last year. That doesn't make him less of a player though.

And the good old RFC blah blah blah, trying to Brainwash the public line to spend more money by publishing meaningless rubbish. Thats altogether a narrow and convenient view, and a favourite of many on HNA.

It's undeniable that web traffic generates income and that the club do anything to increase both. Don't forget that we purchased John Salako off the back of web traffic.

They publish the stats so that people can see them. They are an interesting indicator to form and are a bit of a laugh for the players I'm sure but there is nothing more to them than that! I'm sure RFC don't put any thought into these ratings apart from as a bit of PR.

Your sceptiscm is all for to see. Your arguement lacks any weight.

And lets face it, those over qualified statisticians who have designed the whole Actim process have no idea what they're talking about, do they !

LOL

Your missing the point. Stats only show a certain amount of information. Do you think that Liam Ridgewell is a better defender than John Terry? Phil Neville better than his brother Gary? Do you think that Ashley Young is better than Theiry Henry? or that David James is better than Petr Cech?

Thats what the Actim stats currently say!!

[Ian Royal]

Tinrib, I'm sorry but you sound like you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Actim measures stats from games. I'm not sure exactly what they measure, but I would imagine it is things like, assists, goals, pass completion, No passes made, tackles won, saves made.

All of this is very nice, but takes no account of the difficulty of each instance, or how important it was in the game. It has no ability to measure movement, positioning. As mentioned already, saves can be blinding stops from one on ones or 30 yard tricklers that even I could save. Or they could come about from poor positioning or handling.

Actim stats are very nice, but you can't use them as anything more than a vague indicator.

Of course RFC are going to publish them if we look good in them, it's good PR. You'd be a total moron not to. But to say that because they're on the OS that the club sets any sort of credence to them is ridiculous.

Prozone is a totally differnet matter of course, because it is an analytical tool designed for use in football, by managers and coaches. Actim is a nice but meaningless way of keeping score.

[Tinrib]

[quote="Ian Royal"]Tinrib, I'm sorry but you sound like you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Actim measures stats from games. I'm not sure exactly what they measure, but I would imagine it is things like, assists, goals, pass completion, No passes made, tackles won, saves made.

/quote]

You lose all credence by way of your first two paragraphs. I stoppped reading after that !!

If you dont understand what they mean you're in no real position to tell me I have no idea!

Do some research, then respond.

[Hoop Blah]

Tinrib, I'm sorry but you sound like you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Actim measures stats from games. I'm not sure exactly what they measure, but I would imagine it is things like, assists, goals, pass completion, No passes made, tackles won, saves made.

/quote]

You lose all credence by way of your first two paragraphs. I stoppped reading after that !!

If you dont understand what they mean you're in no real position to tell me I have no idea!

Do some research, then respond.

Can I just thank you for breaking up what has been a very boring week in office with some excellents posts.

[Ian Royal]

Tinrib, I'm sorry but you sound like you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Actim measures stats from games. I'm not sure exactly what they measure, but I would imagine it is things like, assists, goals, pass completion, No passes made, tackles won, saves made.

/quote]

You lose all credence by way of your first two paragraphs. I stoppped reading after that !!

If you dont understand what they mean you're in no real position to tell me I have no idea!

Do some research, then respond.

What? I never said I don't know what they mean. I said I don't know what they measure, but then listed the likely things. I don't need to research actim to know its a load of statistics put out for no real purpose that don't give anything even close to a balanced and full picture of the comparable abilities of different players.

You are a muppet.