Sonko Injury x 2

[Garrincha]

I was so infuriated to see Sonko back on after the first injury I had to air my point on BBC Radio Berks after the game yesterday;

Having seen Sonko writhing in agony after landing awkwardly with one fist punching the ground in pain and hobbling on ONE LEG off the pitch I turned to my bro and said straight away there's no way he should come back on!

He did and 5 mins later his leg went again at which point I got out of my seat and had an early half time cuppa to cool down!?

Mick Gooding made the point on the Radio that Sonko would have told John Fearn that he would be ok to continue (after the first knock) but surely if Jon Fearn had seen the incident and Sonko in so much pain our most consistent player over the last 2 seasons should have come off as a PRECAUTIONARY measure.

Sonko is undoubtably SUPERMAN but ROBOCOP he aint. He's human after all. With 22000 fans chanting his name of course he would want to come back on but the physio must have more influence and use his expert judgment?!

[Royalupnorth]

Sometimes in football, the Physio's aren't given enough respect.
But I do not believe this is the case at Reading (anymore).
I 100% believe that Jon Fearn was happy that Sonko was able to carry on and it was JF's decision, not the fans, Sonko's or any of the bench's.

Given how many players get a knock in a game, if you took them all off as precaution, you would run out of substitutes.

I was called on to the pitch over 10 times in a game during my Reading years and not one was a serious injury requiring a sub.

Trust in JF. Its hard enough to get a job as a physio in football, you don't do anything to risk losing one!

[Rawlie19]

Remember we were 0-0 at that point, and in my opinion the game had produced nothing so was still in doubt as to which way it would go. If we had been 1-0 up then I think he would have been taken off straight away.

The reaction from Coppell seemed to tell it all when he went down the second time too. I think he was angry with Sonks for not coming off the first time.

[Alan Partridge]

It's up to the player

The physio can do so much, he may THINK he's struggling or THINK he's OK but only the individual KNOWs how their own body feels. How bad it is. JF obviously wasn't sure, asked Sonks and Sonks wanted to give it a go. Which is no ones fault just that maybe Sonko thought he might be able to run it off as it happens it seems quite bad.

Just a shame that's all, no fault wahtsoever of Jon Fearn's.

[Garrincha]

Take your point however when Sonks goes down like even an amateur could see there was the potential for further damage:

ie second injury a few mins later!

[Alan Partridge]

Take your point however when Sonks goes down like even an amateur could see there was the potential for further damage:

ie second injury a few mins later!

It was a bad landing, it looked awful but you just don't know, things at times look horrendous and turn out to be nothing, it's all very easy in hindsight.


The Bottom line is that he got treatment and Sonko felt he could carry on, as it happens the injury was a bad one. It's a damn shame but that's the way it is.

[Garrincha]

Hope you're not a physio!

[higher]

On 107 Gilksey said something like "Oh no thats bad sorry everyone but thats not good at all theres no way hes going to be playing on ..as a player I know what hes done". He was quite gobsmacked that he came back on and a bit of implied critisism when he fianally went down again saying ..." I really just hope that he hasnt done further damage".
Im sure the likes of Fearn know a lot more about such things but it sounded like a nasty knee twist or whatever and hopefully the 10 day lay off before the next prem game will proove suffice .BK did great as cover to be fair but the Sonks is our main defensive rock and we need him on that pitch.

[Alan Partridge]

Hope you're not a physio!

I'm not, but there is only so much fearn can do.

He can't possibly know how bad the injury is straight away no matter what training and expertise he has. There was no swelling and Sonks was moving freely on the side and siad to him' Yep I'm OK'

What does he do?

Say Sonks had been fine and Fearn said nope you r not going on, then we go on to lose the game 2 or 3-1 and Bikey had had a mare.

Would you be saying what was Fearn doing if Sonko said he was ok?

[Garrincha]

As far as I'm concerned the player's career is more important than the result so that's irrelevant.

By the way this aint a dig at JF whatsoever just an observation on a player who was clearly unfir to continue as proved and this without the benefit of hindsight as it was witnessed in real time.

[Alan Partridge]

As far as I'm concerned the player's career is more important than the result so that's irrelevant.

By the way this aint a dig at JF whatsoever just an observation on a player who was clearly unfir to continue as proved and this without the benefit of hindsight as it was witnessed in real time.

He was clearly unfit, because he went down the second time. Only Sonko knew if he was unfit to carry on, he was moving freely on the side and said he wants to carry on. That's the end of the matter, the second injury was unfortunate.

[Royalupnorth]

Hope you're not a physio!

I'm not, but there is only so much fearn can do.

He can't possibly know how bad the injury is straight away no matter what training and expertise he has. There was no swelling and Sonks was moving freely on the side and siad to him' Yep I'm OK'

What does he do?

Say Sonks had been fine and Fearn said nope you r not going on, then we go on to lose the game 2 or 3-1 and Bikey had had a mare.

Would you be saying what was Fearn doing if Sonko said he was ok?

I am a physio, and I distinctly remember one of the Reading Physio's a few years back being blamed for Reading losing a game.
It was Paul Turner and i think McGee blamed him for taking to long to stop a nose bleed or something. McGee went to the press saying that Reading lost the momentum they had because they had 10 players for about 2 minutes.
Its not an easy life making these decisions.

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Given how many players get a knock in a game, if you took them all off as precaution, you would run out of substitutes.

Trust in JF. Its hard enough to get a job as a physio in football, you don't do anything to risk losing one!

Seems to me, based on what you've posted here and also in the match thread as events unfolded (re: no use of ice to reduce nonexistent swelling), that you've got a solid handle on what we're talking about here --so let me ask...

Gilkesey --as higher notes above-- went utterly silent when Sonks landed wrong the first time and proceeded to frame it in oh-dear dire terms --a no-doubter, in his presentation.

So I would ask if there isn't a class of connective tissue injuries that don't make themselves obvious until after the fact? In other words, unlike with a busted bone or torn muscle, could one not have a ruptured ligament and play on for a while without difficulty (read: extreme pain) --only to find out afterwards from an MRI or CT scan that it's a matter of invasive surgery, six weeks on crutches and another seven months rehabbing?

It's in that vein. I've seen guys walk off under their own power (often in NFL games, wherein open substitution is not only common but in fact a feature of pretty much every play), head to the dressing room and be adjudged "out for the season" after a routine scan moments later.

[Royalupnorth]

Given how many players get a knock in a game, if you took them all off as precaution, you would run out of substitutes.

Trust in JF. Its hard enough to get a job as a physio in football, you don't do anything to risk losing one!

Seems to me, based on what you've posted here and also in the match thread as events unfolded (re: no use of ice to reduce nonexistent swelling), that you've got a solid handle on what we're talking about here --so let me ask...

Gilkesey --as higher notes above-- went utterly silent when Sonks landed wrong the first time and proceeded to frame it in oh-dear dire terms --a no-doubter, in his presentation.

So I would ask if there isn't a class of connective tissue injuries that don't make themselves obvious until after the fact? In other words, unlike with a busted bone or torn muscle, could one not have a ruptured ligament and play on for a while without difficulty (read: extreme pain) --only to find out afterwards from an MRI or CT scan that it's a matter of invasive surgery, six weeks on crutches and another seven months rehabbing?

It's in that vein. I've seen guys walk off under their own power (often in NFL games, wherein open substitution is not only common but in fact a feature of pretty much every play), head to the dressing room and be adjudged "out for the season" after a routine scan moments later.

It is possible, but rare, that an ACL injury would allow a player to play on untili the knee gives way again.
The injury did look ACL-ish but there are other things that would seem to point to it not being this serious.
See also my entry under "Sonks injury"

[Millsy]

There is almost no way you can examine for a ligament strain or tiny tear as soon as it has happened.

You can do various manouvres on the knee joint to assess for the viabiliy of the different ligaments but unless there's a barn door tear you won't find anything. The most you can hope for really is production of pain on certain manouvres but even then it's a very nonspecific test (i.e. benign injuries will cause pain so it doesn't help much).

John Fearn was therefore in a very tough position - he had to make a good guess and he made the best decision given the info he had at the time.

It's easy to blame someone in retrospect but there's no way he can be blamed for this.

Ideally - if it was a couple of minutes before halftime - he'd see how he went during half time. But it was too far away from half time for this.

It was just one of those unlucky decisions.

[RoyalChicagoFC]

See also my entry under "Sonks injury"

Just done, cheers.

Sooooooooooo then --'bout how long you reckon it'll be until we all get some answers, officially speaking?

[Arch]

Gilkesey --as higher notes above-- went utterly silent when Sonks landed wrong the first time and proceeded to frame it in oh-dear dire terms --a no-doubter, in his presentation.

Not quite. He let out a squeal as if it had happened to him. The "sorry" was for that noise on air. As you say, he could not believe that Sonko went back on, which suggests that it wouldn't be common practice. There are so many injuries in football these days, especially injuries caused by aggravation to damage that's already been done, that the physio must surely be allowed some veto over the player's judgement. Gilkes said there's "no way" he can play on, and he proved right. Why didn't the pitch staff make that judgement?

[Royalupnorth]

See also my entry under "Sonks injury"

Just done, cheers.

Sooooooooooo then --'bout how long you reckon it'll be until we all get some answers, officially speaking?

Depends where they go for their scans these days.
In my day we went to Royal Berks and paid them. They would do it Monday morning and we would have the reults by monday pm, Tuesday am at the latest.
If they use somewhere different, they may do a scan on a Sunday, meaning we will know tomorrow morning. The club may even know now.

[Forbury Lion]

It's up to the player

Manager actually, Had Fearne suggested to Coppell that Sonks should come off I think Coppell would have taken him off.

[RoyalBlue]

Sometimes in football, the Physio's aren't given enough respect.
But I do not believe this is the case at Reading (anymore).
I 100% believe that Jon Fearn was happy that Sonko was able to carry on and it was JF's decision, not the fans, Sonko's or any of the bench's.

Given how many players get a knock in a game, if you took them all off as precaution, you would run out of substitutes.

I was called on to the pitch over 10 times in a game during my Reading years and not one was a serious injury requiring a sub.

Trust in JF. Its hard enough to get a job as a physio in football, you don't do anything to risk losing one!

Sorry but Fearn got this one wrong and I can only assume he wasn't watching the game enough.

How many times has anyone ever seen Superman go down in absolute agony, thrust his arm up immediately and then start hammering the ground in pain?!

Answer is probably none. Big bloody clue there! Halsey recognised it and immediately stopped play.

Even if Superman told Fearn he was OK to continue, had Fearn kept an eye on him like we were, he should have noticed that at no point was he moving freely. His jumping was nowhere near as strong and he wasn't able to move at full pace. Either the injury was affecting him or he was holding back for fear of aggravating it. Even if there wasn't a risk of him making the injury worse, he was far less effective than his normal self and that alone should have suggested a substitution might be a good idea.

There is almost no way you can examine for a ligament strain or tiny tear as soon as it has happened.

You can do various manouvres on the knee joint to assess for the viabiliy of the different ligaments but unless there's a barn door tear you won't find anything. The most you can hope for really is production of pain on certain manouvres but even then it's a very nonspecific test (i.e. benign injuries will cause pain so it doesn't help much).

John Fearn was therefore in a very tough position - he had to make a good guess and he made the best decision given the info he had at the time.

It's easy to blame someone in retrospect but there's no way he can be blamed for this.

Well I was loudly questioning Fearn's sanity/expertise the moment I saw him getting ready to send Sonko back on!