A bit worrying

[Dirk Gently]

According to Andy West on BBCRB yesterday morning, around 10,000 ST holders did not attend Tuesday's match. Nevertheless, the ground was nearly full. Surely that shows the latent demand for tickets among the casual fan who would want to attend on a casual basis if they could get tickets fairly easily.

Can someone please remind me how many season ticket holders we have in total?

18,500.

[RoyalBlue]

According to Andy West on BBCRB yesterday morning, around 10,000 ST holders did not attend Tuesday's match. Nevertheless, the ground was nearly full. Surely that shows the latent demand for tickets among the casual fan who would want to attend on a casual basis if they could get tickets fairly easily.

Can someone please remind me how many season ticket holders we have in total?

18,500.

If that figure is correct then Andy West and John Madeski really ought to get their stories straight!

On 24 September John Madejski was claiming on the OS that 'more than 10,000 season ticket holders have already taken their option to buy their seat' for the game.

If both he and Andy West are telling the truth, that means @ 1,500 season ticket holders paid for a ticket, which they then did not use!!

Are our season ticket holders really that rich/stupid?

[Skyline]

I'm told Sunday is looking like a sell out - a few hundred tickets left at this point.

Not too shabby for a televised league game against uninspiring opposition on a non standard day off the back of a slightly disappointing run of results.

I will be absolutely staggered if it is a sell out!

The last time we played Derby we had an attendance of 22981. And that was only a Championship game. If we can't crack that number in the Premiership then I'm going to have to go with those who say we shouldn't expand, as our appeal is obviously fading.

Oh please please please let someone think I'm being serious so I can whoosh them ...

[Behindu]

Presumably there's no way that Derby will have sold their full 2000 0- if they even took the full allocation in the first place.

Do you mean a home sell-out?

Indeed, away sales are irrelevant in this context...

[Skyline]

I will be absolutely staggered if it is a sell out!

The last time we played Derby we had an attendance of 22981.

23,091. Not a sell-out, but still 110 more than last time we played Derby (and I know at least three people who were there last time but couldn't make it this time).

So lets compare last time to this:

Last time:
i) We had just confirmed promotion to the Prem for the first time in our history, away at Leicester, and if results went our way we could clinch the championship with five full weeks to go
ii) Played at 3pm on a Saturday, the traditional time for football matches to kick off
iii) Not on TV

This time:
i) We had just been beaten 7-4 away to Pompey and dropped into the relegation zone
ii) Played at 2pm on a Sunday
iii) Shown live on Sky

And yet we still got a higher attendance this time that last.

[Behindu]

I can't recall how many Derby brought last time, but they were about 1000 down on their allocation this time.

[Schards#2]

The last time we played Derby at home, every ticket available to home fans was sold.

That renders your point about the gate being higher worthless, as was your point about the Chelsea gate being higher as that also sold out to home fans last year too.

[Behindu]

The last time we played Derby at home, every ticket available to home fans was sold.

That renders your point about the gate being higher worthless, as was your point about the Chelsea gate being higher as that also sold out to home fans last year too.

Although given the now long and consistent run of 95% + attendances i suspect at least one other 'point' was long ago rendered worthless too...

[Schards#2]

The last time we played Derby at home, every ticket available to home fans was sold.

That renders your point about the gate being higher worthless, as was your point about the Chelsea gate being higher as that also sold out to home fans last year too.

Although given the now long and consistent run of 95% + attendances i suspect at least one other 'point' was long ago rendered worthless too...

That's a retreat from Woodcote's sellout after sellout argument.

Another non sell out but close to capacity suggests the size of the stadium is just about perfect.

A string of sold out fixtures and the strong probability of Premiership survival could alter things but neither look a likely scenario based on the evidence thus far this year.

[Behindu]

That's a retreat from Woodcote's sellout after sellout argument.

Another non sell out but close to capacity suggests the size of the stadium is just about perfect.

A string of sold out fixtures and the strong probability of Premiership survival could alter things but neither look a likely scenario based on the evidence thus far this year.

Not sure how I can be accused of retreating from someone else's arguements !

I'm not re entering a debate on this again, it's a pointless exercise and I've got more important things to do TBH.

[Schards#2]

Your earlier post inviting a resumption of this debate suggests otherwise.

[SpaceCruiser]

The last time we played Derby at home, every ticket available to home fans was sold.

That renders your point about the gate being higher worthless, as was your point about the Chelsea gate being higher as that also sold out to home fans last year too.

Although given the now long and consistent run of 95% + attendances i suspect at least one other 'point' was long ago rendered worthless too...

That's a retreat from Woodcote's sellout after sellout argument.

Another non sell out but close to capacity suggests the size of the stadium is just about perfect.

A string of sold out fixtures and the strong probability of Premiership survival could alter things but neither look a likely scenario based on the evidence thus far this year.

Are you still arguing against the expansion of the stadium?!?

When we play the likes of Manchester United, our stadium will be sold out, yes? Wouldn't it be better to have more seats so we can sell out with more. i.e. 30,000 rather than 24,000. Whether we sold out or not against Derby is irrelevant.

[Schards#2]

Yep, lets spent millions to accomodate one fixture that we may well not have by the time the extention is completed.

[Wycombe Royal]

Another non sell out but close to capacity suggests the size of the stadium is just about perfect.

Just about perfect with no room for growth.

I don't what your business experience is but that is a poor position to be in and signals the businesses intention that it doesn't want to grow anymore if expansion isn't planned and scheduled.

[Skyline]

The last time we played Derby at home, every ticket available to home fans was sold.

That renders your point about the gate being higher worthless, as was your point about the Chelsea gate being higher as that also sold out to home fans last year too.

We were only, what, 1100 short of a complete sellout for the game yesterday, and from what I could tell there were large gaps in the Derby contingent.

If you really cannot understand that it does not matter when a game sells out to the home fans, but only whether it does or not, then there is no point in continuing this debate. Can you not even acknowledge a little bit that gaining a higher attendance for a game that is on TV at what many would consider an inconvenient time, over a game where we could actually achieve something and was on at 3pm on a Saturday, shows that there is the latent demand out there for people who want to watch a game of football at Reading?

[Schards#2]

The last time we played Derby at home, every ticket available to home fans was sold.

That renders your point about the gate being higher worthless, as was your point about the Chelsea gate being higher as that also sold out to home fans last year too.

We were only, what, 1100 short of a complete sellout for the game yesterday, and from what I could tell there were large gaps in the Derby contingent.

If you really cannot understand that it does not matter when a game sells out to the home fans, but only whether it does or not, then there is no point in continuing this debate. Can you not even acknowledge a little bit that gaining a higher attendance for a game that is on TV at what many would consider an inconvenient time, over a game where we could actually achieve something and was on at 3pm on a Saturday, shows that there is the latent demand out there for people who want to watch a game of football at Reading?

I can acknowledge that. I was very impressed by yesterday's gate. Presumably, there is a sector of support that can make Sundays but not Saturdays.

You would do well to acknowledge that you can't do any more than sell every ticket, so highlighting the fact the a crowd this year was higher than a crowd in a previous year, where we sold every ticket, is a worthless argument which, frankly, undermines the credibility of any other point you make.

[Schards#2]

If you really cannot understand that it does not matter when a game sells out to the home fans, but only whether it does or not, then there is no point in continuing this debate.

Led Zeppelin are playing a one off gig at the O2 arena, an estimated 2,000,000 applied for the 20,000 tickets.

The crowd at this concert will be 20,000.

If you cannot see that demand for this concert is higher than demand for other concerts at the O2 area that will also attract a crowd of 20,000 then you really aren't awfully bright.

[readingbedding]

I'm looking forward to the expansion.
It needs to be done at some stage.

[Behindu]

If you really cannot understand that it does not matter when a game sells out to the home fans, but only whether it does or not, then there is no point in continuing this debate.

Led Zeppelin are playing a one off gig at the O2 arena, an estimated 2,000,000 applied for the 20,000 tickets.

The crowd at this concert will be 20,000.

If you cannot see that demand for this concert is higher than demand for other concerts at the O2 area that will also attract a crowd of 20,000 then you really aren't awfully bright.

Give it up !
I don't think even you know what point it is you are trying to make.

[Dirk Gently]

We have 19 home games each season in the PL.

Working on this season's teams, we will be completely and utterly guaranteed to sell out every single seat available for at least 6 teams :
Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester Utd, Newcastle, Tottenham.

For another 4 we will sell virtually all - I'd say at least 80% :
Aston Villa, Everton, Manchester City, West Ham.

The demand for the other 9 teams is difficult to estimate, and will depend on just how well we and they are doing :
Birmingham, Blackburn, Bolton, Derby, Fulham, Middlesboro, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Wigan.

Based on these figures, and assuming 0% increase from the 9 least attractive clubs (unlikely!), we'd fill any extension to a figure of 48.4%.
I'm sure that can be cost justified and I'd be happy with that, because I'm sure that better pricing schemes and promotions such as KFAQ would not only boost attendances for the less attractive games but would also bring the next generation of supporters into the ground. The statement of ambition from this would also help attract better players, too!

Just one question, Schards - when you're selling someone a mortgage, if they're a couple with 1 kid, do you tell them not to go for a 3-bedroom house and just get a 2-bedroom one until they can fill it to capacity all the time, or are they allowed to plan ahead?