Stop and Search at Reading Station

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STAR Voice
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Stop and Search at Reading Station

by STAR Voice » 20 Apr 2008 21:05

I'm convinced that Thames Valley Police considerably exceeded their legal authority by stopping and searching everyone wearing football shirts/scarves who was bound for London yesterday.

Under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1994 (often referred to as "PACE") stop and search can legally only be carried out where there is "reasonable suspicion." This is defined as below :
The Home Office Stop and Search Manual 1.11 For most stop and search powers a police officer must have reasonable grounds for suspicion. Paragraphs 2.2–2.11 of PACE code A define ‘reasonable suspicion’.The key points are:
> it must have an objective basis in fact, information and/or intelligence;
> it should normally be linked to accurate and current intelligence or information;
> it can be based on some level of generalisation stemming from the behaviour of a person in a particular situation;
> it can be based on a distinctive item of clothing or other means of indicating membership of a group or gang, combined with reliable information or intelligence on the carrying of weapons or controlled drugs.
Code A also states that:
> Reasonable suspicion cannot be justified or supported by personal factors alone, or by generalisations or stereotypical images.
> The effective use of ‘reasonable suspicion’ is likely to be based on a range of factors. (This helps prevent abuses of power and increases public confidence.)
> Race equality duty makes it unlawful for police officers to discriminate on the grounds of race, colour, ethnic origin, nationality or national origins when using their powers. The stop and search powers must be used fairly,
responsibly, with respect for the people being searched and without unlawful discrimination.
1.12 It is vital that officers understand what constitutes reasonable suspicion, and know how to apply this in practice. Officers should also understand that they must not search anyone, even with their permission, where no power to search exists.
1.13 Only under very specific circumstances are the police granted powers to stop and search without reasonable suspicion. Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 and section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000
allow officers to use stop and search where there is a threat of public disorder or to prevent acts of terrorism, respectively. In both cases the powers have to be authorised before use.


The fact that it was only football supporters who were stopped and searched, whilst other passengers travelling on the same trains were not stopped makes it makes it clear that this search yesterday was based on "generalisations and stereotypes" of football supporters. The fact that all football supporters, not just Reading supporters, were stopped shows that there was no evidence on which these searches could have been based. The fact that searching travelling supporters was justified by officers with the rationale that "Leeds are playing at Millwall today" further demonstrates the randomness of this - if the Police had specific intelligence they would have targeted specific parties involved, instead of ALL football supporters.

I am convinced this was purely a "fishing trip" - with Police targeting football supporters to see what they could find. Anyone who knows anything about football supporters (and you'd like to think that would include the police) will know that anyone likely to cause trouble or carry a weapon to a match will not be travelling "in colours". Above all, searches like this are pointless - it would be extremely easy for anyone to purchase a knife at any hardware store between Paddington and their destination.

Knife crime is a problem, but I would suggest that it is a problem for the whole of society, and football fans are no less likely or more likely to carry weapons than any pother section of the public. So why were only obvious football supporters targeted yesterday?

I, for one, am completely and utterly fed up with us being discriminated against just because we choose to spend our leisure time watching football. It is absolutely outrageous and we should not have to stand for this sort of treatment. I will be putting in an official complaint to Thames Valley Police tomorrow on behalf of supporters - I firmly believe that they have no justification in law for these searches.

I've also posted another thread giving advice for any supporters who are stopped and searched.

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bobby1413
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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by bobby1413 » 20 Apr 2008 23:07

STAR Campaigns I'm convinced that Thames Valley Police considerably exceeded their legal authority by stopping and searching everyone wearing football shirts/scarves who was bound for London yesterday.

Under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1994 (often referred to as "PACE") stop and search can legally only be carried out where there is "reasonable suspicion." This is defined as below :
The Home Office Stop and Search Manual 1.11 For most stop and search powers a police officer must have reasonable grounds for suspicion. Paragraphs 2.2–2.11 of PACE code A define ‘reasonable suspicion’.The key points are:
> it must have an objective basis in fact, information and/or intelligence;
> it should normally be linked to accurate and current intelligence or information;
> it can be based on some level of generalisation stemming from the behaviour of a person in a particular situation;
> it can be based on a distinctive item of clothing or other means of indicating membership of a group or gang, combined with reliable information or intelligence on the carrying of weapons or controlled drugs.
Code A also states that:
> Reasonable suspicion cannot be justified or supported by personal factors alone, or by generalisations or stereotypical images.
> The effective use of ‘reasonable suspicion’ is likely to be based on a range of factors. (This helps prevent abuses of power and increases public confidence.)
> Race equality duty makes it unlawful for police officers to discriminate on the grounds of race, colour, ethnic origin, nationality or national origins when using their powers. The stop and search powers must be used fairly,
responsibly, with respect for the people being searched and without unlawful discrimination.
1.12 It is vital that officers understand what constitutes reasonable suspicion, and know how to apply this in practice. Officers should also understand that they must not search anyone, even with their permission, where no power to search exists.
1.13 Only under very specific circumstances are the police granted powers to stop and search without reasonable suspicion. Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 and section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000
allow officers to use stop and search where there is a threat of public disorder or to prevent acts of terrorism, respectively. In both cases the powers have to be authorised before use.


The fact that it was only football supporters who were stopped and searched, whilst other passengers travelling on the same trains were not stopped makes it makes it clear that this search yesterday was based on "generalisations and stereotypes" of football supporters. The fact that all football supporters, not just Reading supporters, were stopped shows that there was no evidence on which these searches could have been based. The fact that searching travelling supporters was justified by officers with the rationale that "Leeds are playing at Millwall today" further demonstrates the randomness of this - if the Police had specific intelligence they would have targeted specific parties involved, instead of ALL football supporters.

I am convinced this was purely a "fishing trip" - with Police targeting football supporters to see what they could find. Anyone who knows anything about football supporters (and you'd like to think that would include the police) will know that anyone likely to cause trouble or carry a weapon to a match will not be travelling "in colours". Above all, searches like this are pointless - it would be extremely easy for anyone to purchase a knife at any hardware store between Paddington and their destination.

Knife crime is a problem, but I would suggest that it is a problem for the whole of society, and football fans are no less likely or more likely to carry weapons than any pother section of the public. So why were only obvious football supporters targeted yesterday?

I, for one, am completely and utterly fed up with us being discriminated against just because we choose to spend our leisure time watching football. It is absolutely outrageous and we should not have to stand for this sort of treatment. I will be putting in an official complaint to Thames Valley Police tomorrow on behalf of supporters - I firmly believe that they have no justification in law for these searches.

I've also posted another thread giving advice for any supporters who are stopped and searched.


Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows anyone to be stopped and searched with resonable force without any suscipion. I have no idea whether this was in force on saturday btw.

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by bcubed » 20 Apr 2008 23:30

The copper I spoke to said they had been doing this for a couple of years
He said they just drop in at any station on a random basis - doesn't like there is any objective basis there

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by STAR Voice » 20 Apr 2008 23:30

bobby1413 Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows anyone to be stopped and searched with resonable force without any suscipion. I have no idea whether this was in force on saturday btw.


I'm aware of that one - and it allows for random searches. But I can think of no conceivable circumstance where it's only football supporters wearing colours who could be under suspicion of carrying equipment that could be used to commit a terrorist act.

Absolutely nothing against searches, but not when they're so obviously targeted like this at one group.

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by One Beer is never enough. » 21 Apr 2008 05:31

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bobby1413 Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows anyone to be stopped and searched with resonable force without any suscipion. I have no idea whether this was in force on saturday btw.


I'm aware of that one - and it allows for random searches. But I can think of no conceivable circumstance where it's only football supporters wearing colours who could be under suspicion of carrying equipment that could be used to commit a terrorist act.

Absolutely nothing against searches, but not when they're so obviously targeted like this at one group.


Sorry to be boring.....

There could have been a sec 60 CJ&PO 1994 in place ; This would explain targetting of a certain group - football fans - but people can only be searched for weapons/ dangerous articles - but would have to be based on intelligence - ie info that a group of supportes was heading to London for a fight - AND documented. Depending on the source you may be able to get the rationale behind it under the FOI Act.

Powers of police to stop and search

60 Powers to stop and search in anticipation of violence (1) Where a police officer of or above the rank of superintendent reasonably believes that—
(a) incidents involving serious violence may take place in any locality in his area, and
(b) it is expedient to do so to prevent their occurrence,
he may give an authorisation that the powers to stop and search persons and vehicles conferred by this section shall be exercisable at any place within that locality for a period not exceeding twenty four hours.
(2) The power conferred by subsection (1) above may be exercised by a chief inspector or an inspector if he reasonably believes that incidents involving serious violence are imminent and no superintendent is available.
(3) If it appears to the officer who gave the authorisation or to a superintendent that it is expedient to do so, having regard to offences which have, or are reasonably suspected to have, been committed in connection with any incident falling within the authorisation, he may direct that the authorisation shall continue in being for a further six hours.
(4) This section confers on any constable in uniform power—
(a) to stop any pedestrian and search him or anything carried by him for offensive weapons or dangerous instruments;
(b) to stop any vehicle and search the vehicle, its driver and any passenger for offensive weapons or dangerous instruments.
(5) A constable may, in the exercise of those powers, stop any person or vehicle and make any search he thinks fit whether or not he has any grounds for suspecting that the person or vehicle is carrying weapons or articles of that kind.
(6) If in the course of a search under this section a constable discovers a dangerous instrument or an article which he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be an offensive weapon, he may seize it.
(7) This section applies (with the necessary modifications) to ships, aircraft and hovercraft as it applies to vehicles.
(8) A person who fails to stop or (as the case may be) to stop the vehicle when required to do so by a constable in the exercise of his powers under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or both.
(9) Any authorisation under this section shall be in writing signed by the officer giving it and shall specify the locality in which and the period during which the powers conferred by this section are exercisable and a direction under subsection (3) above shall also be given in writing or, where that is not practicable, recorded in writing as soon as it is practicable to do so.
(10) Where a vehicle is stopped by a constable under this section, the driver shall be entitled to obtain a written statement that the vehicle was stopped under the powers conferred by this section if he applies for such a statement not later than the end of the period of twelve months from the day on which the vehicle was stopped and similarly as respects a pedestrian who is stopped and searched under this section.
(11) In this section—
“dangerous instruments” means instruments which have a blade or are sharply pointed;
“offensive weapon” has the meaning given by section 1(9) of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984; and
“vehicle” includes a caravan as defined in section 29(1) of the [1960 c. 62.] Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
(12) The powers conferred by this section are in addition to and not in derogation of, any power otherwise conferred.


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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by bobby1413 » 21 Apr 2008 11:50

One Beer is never enough.
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bobby1413 Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows anyone to be stopped and searched with resonable force without any suscipion. I have no idea whether this was in force on saturday btw.


I'm aware of that one - and it allows for random searches. But I can think of no conceivable circumstance where it's only football supporters wearing colours who could be under suspicion of carrying equipment that could be used to commit a terrorist act.

Absolutely nothing against searches, but not when they're so obviously targeted like this at one group.


(5) A constable may, in the exercise of those powers, stop any person or vehicle and make any search he thinks fit whether or not he has any grounds for suspecting that the person or vehicle is carrying weapons or articles of that kind.



Plus of course, whether there is intelligence or not, the order is in place so they are not going to wait around for the one person with a history of carrying weapons to appear.

It is far better in the eyes of the police to search anyone they see fit to. Whether a weapon is found or not, they have still searched them just in case, and checked who they are and the purpose of them being there (most likely for the footie match). They would rather offer a visible and resilient presence by enforcing S60 searches than not.

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by Row Z Royal » 21 Apr 2008 17:13

STAR Campaigns I'm convinced that Thames Valley Police considerably exceeded their legal authority by stopping and searching everyone wearing football shirts/scarves who was bound for London yesterday.



I thought it was a BTP-led, PCSO-supported, operation.

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by STAR Voice » 21 Apr 2008 17:14

Row Z Royal
STAR Campaigns I'm convinced that Thames Valley Police considerably exceeded their legal authority by stopping and searching everyone wearing football shirts/scarves who was bound for London yesterday.



I thought it was a BTP-led, PCSO-supported, operation.


Yes - I've discovered today that it was led by BTP, but involving co-operation from local forces. The Police I saw doing the stopping and searching were TVP.

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by g » 21 Apr 2008 17:48

Freedom isn't free


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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by STAR Voice » 21 Apr 2008 17:54

g Freedom isn't free


Correct! But if the cost of goes too far then it ceases to be freedom after all.

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by Row Z Royal » 22 Apr 2008 13:03

As posted by Turns on the S60 thread - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berk ... 360590.stm

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Re: Stop and Search at Reading Station

by Turns8 » 22 Apr 2008 14:27


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