Not Hard to see progress for the forseeable future

[Rex]

And that is the nub of all of this. If we do not make it back into the premier league this season it will be sending the SJM and SC master plan off the rails. Realistically how many thought we would be having this discussion on a thread this season. Plenty of clubs never quite recover from dropping out of the premiership. Recently Watford and Charlton being two fine examples. A huge cash injection does not always equate to success on the field. Buying gradually and pressing forward gradually without upsetting the balance of the wage structure within the club is exactly that - a balance. We've had impatience within the club before which made a few players starry eyed, they were sold for profit and we rebuilt again. To have gained the position we are in with the blend of players we have is realistically quite lucky in some respects. Lucky in the way that so far a level of loyalty has paid off in respect to some players. Sometimes fortune has favoured us when bringing in the less experienced players and this was refreshing to see. That in respect to some of the players getting first team is progress. The remainder of the games this season will either be a joy or painful and frustrating as we crave this clubs success.

[Royal With Cheese]

I'm still struggling to understand some people's rationales for posting what amounts to baby dribble when referring to ambition, performance etc....

I'm not sure how anyone can quantify progress in such definate terms. We have to accept where we are and where we come from. So, Schards/RL, in some contexts I have to conceed you are indeed correct. The team we currently have is not as good as any of the teams in the previous three seasons. If it was, we wouldn't have been relegated in the first place. Is that relevant? I'm not too sure. By definition progress should be seen as promotion and we appear (by whatever means) to have a relatively good chance of attaining it.

As for after that how far can Reading FC go? Can we become a mid table Priemership team? Is that what you both aspire to? Frankly, anyone who thinks a provincial club like ours, save for the odd season punching above our weight, will be a force in the Prem is clearly deluded. This is with or without Mr Madejski at the helm.

My view is at absolute best we could end up battling relegation every season from the Prem for a sustained period.

My point? I'm not really sure. Reading back through the last 5 or so pages showed me a lot of frustration from a couple who have quite clearly forgotton that it's Reading they're supporting, not Aston Villa or Newcastle United, let alone Arsenal, Liverpool or Man U. We're not going to play well in every game - by my reconing we've played well, or well enough in 20 out of the 30 league games. That, in context, is pretty bloody good. if we keep that ratio up we have a really good chance of going up this season.

We've been privalidged to see, in my view, the finest ever side to pull on Reading shirts in the 106 team.That was a freak, an abomination - if we ever see a season like that again in my lifetime I will be a very lucky person. It could happen, I'm not ruling it out mind but I'm certainly wouldn't be crass enough to expect it. I cannot and will not compare the team today with that team.

And with that I'll bid you all goodnight.

[Rex]

Good post RWC. Still here though

[Royal With Cheese]

Yep.

Just going now. Have a coughing child to attend to.

Goodnight. Really.

[Schards#2]

I'm sure from a few thousand miles away today's effort was entertaining and inspiring, however, from 6 yards away it was dull, uninspiring and woeful as have been many recent games.

The only reason we are second is because everyone else in this division is even worse. We are a poor team, far worse than the 106 side, far worse than the side that finished 8th in the prem and worse than the one that got relegated.

Progress? Maybe from the other side of an ocean, but not in the flesh i'm afraid.

That's without doubt the post of the century.

I thought you couldn't make yourself look more stupid but congratulations, you've managed it in spectacular fashion.

Keep it up - you're like Sir Dodger Royal without the humour.

Given your post accepting that the team is the worst it's been for three years, can you explain this post?

Progress is improving, we are not improving.

Every player sold is replaced by a cheaper alternative who is of lesser ability than the man he is replacing was at their best.

Given the resources at our disposal, it's extraordinary we are second but that has much to do with how poor the opposition is. If you think we've played well in 20-30 games you are living in dreamland, i'm presuming you've seen most of these games, yes?

We are playing poorly and, recently, seem to have adopted a style of play that is painful to watch and creates few opportunities.

As the manager (who's presence may attract and keep certain players) is likely to go at the end of the season and the chairman wants to sell, so is unlikely to commit large resources, it hard to see progress for the forseeable future.

[readingbedding]

Moans out of the game, moans in the game.

Z3, Row E if I'm not mistaken...

If we're second that's because the League is the worst in his 'memory', what a coincidence eh...

Couldn't make it up!

Anyway, he is now cock-blocked, just hope I don't have the misfortune of standing near the miserable sod again...

[CMRoyal]

The reason that it's got a bit turgid in recent weeks is that a) we were getting beaten too often when playing 'well' away from home (Burnley, Preston), and b) as the season's progressed, more and more teams are making it very difficult for us to play at home (4-5-1 and all that). Add in the poor pitch and it's become something of a slog.

However, the first third of the season, when most of the 'better' football was played, garnered 27 points. The all-new Benitez style has accumulated 31 points in the second third. It feels like we've taken a step back stylistically in order to take a tiny step closer to top tier football. Is this progress? Who cares, que sera sera and all that, and it's still exciting in its own squeaky-bum way.

[Schards#2]

Moans out of the game, moans in the game.

Z3, Row E if I'm not mistaken...

If we're second that's because the League is the worst in his 'memory', what a coincidence eh...

Couldn't make it up!

Anyway, he is now cock-blocked, just hope I don't have the misfortune of standing near the miserable sod again...

Congrats on finding out where I was stood, no congrats for bleating on about moaning as, if you had known who i was at the game, you'd know I spent the entire game with a scarf wrapped across my mouth/nose to try and keep warm.

FAIL

[Sun Tzu]

Someone give the grampophone a nudge, the needle seems to be stuck..

..and not only that it's been playing the same damn record for months now !!!

[Baines]

Given your post accepting that the team is the worst it's been for three years, can you explain this post?

Progress is improving, we are not improving.

If you see progress as improving on the 05/06 and 06/07 seasons, then it seems rather unlikely that that narrow definition of progress will be achieved. But then I suspect that few clubs would consider that they had progressed only if they improved on their best ever seasons.

If you see progress as the club consolidating itself as a club which can expect to be challenging for automatic promotion from the Championship every year (and from the viewpoint of 5 and certainly 10 years ago, that would seem to be progress), then that seems a more realistic possibility.

As an aside, I'm not sure that I can recall a relegated Reading side bouncing back anything like as strongly as this one has done so far.

[Schards#2]

Given your post accepting that the team is the worst it's been for three years, can you explain this post?

Progress is improving, we are not improving.

If you see progress as improving on the 05/06 and 06/07 seasons, then it seems rather unlikely that that narrow definition of progress will be achieved. But then I suspect that few clubs would consider that they had progressed only if they improved on their best ever seasons.

If you see progress as the club consolidating itself as a club which can expect to be challenging for automatic promotion from the Championship every year (and from the viewpoint of 5 and certainly 10 years ago, that would seem to be progress), then that seems a more realistic possibility.

As an aside, I'm not sure that I can recall a relegated Reading side bouncing back anything like as strongly as this one has done so far.

I see progress as improving, what I see at reading at the moment is it gradually deterioration from an all time high. And I don't see things changing significantly going forward because of the Coppell/Madejski situation. It's an opinion and you're quite entitled to disagree with it.

Obviously, it's better than the 80's/90's but from where we were 05 - 07 we haven't maintained things. It's a fair point to say that improvement at this stage is a big ask, I don't think it's a fair point to ridicule the suggestion that it's hard to see progress going forward given the current circumstances.

[readingbedding]

Given your post accepting that the team is the worst it's been for three years, can you explain this post?

Progress is improving, we are not improving.

If you see progress as improving on the 05/06 and 06/07 seasons, then it seems rather unlikely that that narrow definition of progress will be achieved. But then I suspect that few clubs would consider that they had progressed only if they improved on their best ever seasons.

If you see progress as the club consolidating itself as a club which can expect to be challenging for automatic promotion from the Championship every year (and from the viewpoint of 5 and certainly 10 years ago, that would seem to be progress), then that seems a more realistic possibility.

As an aside, I'm not sure that I can recall a relegated Reading side bouncing back anything like as strongly as this one has done so far.

Has it ever happened?

Good job it's the worst standard of 2nd tier football in living memory, or else we'd be bottom.
Thank goodness for small mercies eh...

[Mr Angry]

Odd isn't it?

When we were destroying teams for fun earlier in the season, the mantra of some posters was "you can't judge progress on a single result" yet, when we "only" get a point away at a team lying in 7th it is proof that we are not progressing! And then comes the refrain that this team isn't better than the 106 team or the team that finished 8th in the premier league.......

....it appears to me that the time line for judging progress changes on a week by week basis for some people; is it:

a: compared to last week
b; compared to last season
c; compared to the best team ever to represented Reading
d; compared to 5 years ago
e; compared to 10 years ago
f; compared to 20 years ago
g; compared to 35 years ago

As for saying that we are "only" second because this League is so rubbish, well, words fail me.

I'm reminded of over-hearing a Man Utd fan during the game at the Mad Stad last season where he was getting more and more Woodcote-like in his rage because they weren't 3 or 4 up against us after 10 minutes; he was ranting at Rooney, at Ronaldo, at Ferguson and would probably have chinned Sir Bobby Charlton if he had been in his immediate location so disgusted was he at their pathetic and inept performance.....

.....the moral being of course, some people will NEVER be happy.

And thats sad really, cos football isn't life and death - its a bit of escapist fun to help forget the drudgeries of everyday life.

So Schards, chill out mate; there is going to be next season, then the next, then the next.........

[Schards#2]

Who's the idiot judging on a single result? Read the posts.

Furthermore, I don't need to chill, i'm just happily giving my opinions which people are under no obligation to respond to. I'll still be there whatever division, however good or bad they are playing. I'm glad they appear to have given the likes of readingbedding some meaning in life though.

Oh, and Man Utd were three after ten minutes IIRC.

[Sun Tzu]

i'm just happily giving my opinions which people are under no obligation to respond to.
.

We've already been advised that responses are in fact unwelcome and we're supposed to allow you to issue proclamations without challenge.
You'd be incredibly disappointed if you didn't stir up a bit of flak though !

[Schards#2]

i'm just happily giving my opinions which people are under no obligation to respond to.
.

We've already been advised that responses are in fact unwelcome and we're supposed to allow you to issue proclamations without challenge.
You'd be incredibly disappointed if you didn't stir up a bit of flak though !

Really?

[Woodcote Royal]

With regard to PROGRESS though I'm with Royal Lady..... if we go up then crash back down etc that to me is NOT progress.

Progress = going up, getting some balls and getting a more realistic wage structure allowing decent calibre players in... getting a foothold in the Prem and staying there for a few years. THAT is progress. Another magical lift from the Championship God Coppell is just another flash in the pan.

Spot on, but this can't happen without the extra revenue that a larger stadium would bring.......................perhaps this observation belongs in another thread...............

[Woodcote Royal]

Schards,

I'd especially take issue with your assessment of the Championship.

How would you think Boro or Blackburn (did you see the highlights of their game yesterday? or even Fulham or West Ham (who are both top half of the Premiership) would do in this League? Not to mention Stoke, Hull, WBA, Adams' Pompey, Newcastle, Sunderland (I watched the NE derby this afternoon and the quality was awful).

Swansea (not even in the playoff positions) outclassed Portsmouth away, Cardiff pushed Arsenal all the way, Burnley have beaten/ pushed all the way half a dozen Premiership clubs this season, including Chelsea, Aresenal, Spurs, WBA............Derby (Derby!!!!!!) beat a fairly full strength Man U in the first leg. Donny could have beaten Villa. OK, these were all Cup games but by definition that's all we've got to go on. Three of the above examples are still unresolved.

Lux

We must have upwards of 100 posters on this sight who could do a lot worse than post these observations on the inside of their toilet door for further inspection at an appropriate time!!

When that NE derby finished yesterday you will have noticed how SKY showed firstly the top half of the Premiership table followed by the bottom.

Well, a lot of Reading fans switch channels before the bottom is shown and therefore genuinely believe that the Prem contains just 10 teams and so assume any promotion on our part would be sure to end in disaster.

We're 2nd in the Championship because it's sh*t and we won't survive a season in the Prem
because, WBA, 'Boro, Blackburn, Stoke, Portsmouth, Newcastle, Spurs, Sunderland, Bolton and Hull don't exist.

QED

[Schards#2]

With regard to PROGRESS though I'm with Royal Lady..... if we go up then crash back down etc that to me is NOT progress.

Progress = going up, getting some balls and getting a more realistic wage structure allowing decent calibre players in... getting a foothold in the Prem and staying there for a few years. THAT is progress. Another magical lift from the Championship God Coppell is just another flash in the pan.

Spot on, but this can't happen without the extra revenue that a larger stadium would bring.......................perhaps this observation belongs in another thread...............

A bigger stadium, of itself, doesn't bring in extra revenue, it requires paying cutomers to use the extra capacity.

Do you follow this?

[Woodcote Royal]

We will never bring in the extra revenue required to fulfill the aspirations listed above (and therefore compete on level terms with upwards of 50% of the top flight) without the extra seats a larger stadium would provide.

Do you follow this or, will your wife be forced to post yet more nonsense in order to deflect attention from the endless stream of blinkered garbage that emanates from your keyboard?